CopyWriters Eyes

[honestbizpro]

What is it like to live in the world of a pro copy writer?

I was in a chess chat where some supposedly very intelligent people can say some of the craziest things...but sometimes you see them correct each others chat grammar!

When I send emails sometimes I have to go back and check things like did I use an apostrophe where needed like when I say "its". Does that bother you guys?

Can you turn it on and off?

When you see someone else's sales copy do you break down each sentence? How effective it is? What can be different or trimmed down?

Do you take into consideration like public speakers what crowd you are addressing? Is Slang ever appropriate?

For me personally....I judge most copy on whether it really made me want to opt in or pull my wallet out...only then do I really take notice.

And actually take notes.

[Ronak Shah]

I think this question gets repeated every now and then here in this forum.

Everyone wants to know whether it's necessary to be excellent at grammar to prove your self as a great copywriter. The answer is yes & no, both.

Yes - It's important to be proficient at writing. After all, you would have to write kind of a short story that draws your crowd into reading it further. Being a creative copywriter is certainly the best option.
No - A copywriter's sole job is to bring sales. Many copywriters do make plenty of grammar mistakes in a sales letter but still convert. Thus, there is no rule that says you must be great at writing. Your job is to be able to persuade a customer to buy your product. If you get a 2% conversion minimum, I think you've done your job.

Most copywriters write in a third party voice. It's more about YOU the reader than about me the writer / marketer.

Usually, slang is never written in sales letters though you could try using it if you like. If there is any, I have never seen as yet.

Short sentences work wonders. Long sentences can make the copy look boring.

However, at the end of the day if you're writing to-the-point and making the other person believe every word you've written, you've just made a sale.

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by honestbizpro

sometimes you see them correct each others chat grammer!

It's even worse, here: you get people correcting spelling as well as grammar!

Originally Posted by honestbizpro

When I send emails sometimes I have to go back and check things like did I use an apostrophe where needed like when I say "its". Does that bother you guys?

It doesn't bother me at all that you go back and check. On the contrary: I welcome it and commend you on it.

[honestbizpro]

Originally Posted by ronakshah

I think this question gets repeated every now and then here in this forum.

Everyone wants to know whether it's necessary to be excellent at grammar to prove your self as a great copywriter. The answer is yes & no, both.

Yes - It's important to be proficient at writing. After all, you would have to write kind of a short story that draws your crowd into reading it further. Being a creative copywriter is certainly the best option.
No - A copywriter's sole job is to bring sales. Many copywriters do make plenty of grammar mistakes in a sales letter but still convert. Thus, there is no rule that says you must be great at writing. Your job is to be able to persuade a customer to buy your product. If you get a 2% conversion minimum, I think you've done your job.

Most copywriters write in a third part voice. It's more about YOU the reader than about me the writer / marketer.

Usually, slang is never written in sales letters though you could try using it if you like. If there is any, I have never seen as yet.

Short sentences work wonders. Long sentences can make the copy look boring.

However, at the end of the day if you're writing to-the-point and making the other person believe every word you've written, you've just made a sale.

Very well said and very well recieved.

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

It's even worse, here: you get people correcting spelling as well as grammar!



It doesn't bother me at all that you go back and check. On the contrary: I welcome it and commend you on it.

You have a way with words! Heard that one before?


Something told me to drink a cup of coffee, stretch, and pad up before coming to the copywriting section.

[Alexa Smith]

On a more serious note, I think slang's a problem in copy, because it's so often regional. What's readily understood and appropriate for the US, in particular, isn't always received the same way in the rest of the English-speaking world.

[travlinguy]

My eyes gravitate to grammar, spelling and syntax issues. I've learned to tone down pointing that stuff out in here because this little avenue of IM doesn't necessarily represent readers of the New Yorker.

Still, I think it's a disservice to tell a young copywriter that those things don't matter as long as you're able to 'relate' to your readers. The problem with that is the aspiring writer feels that grammar and spelling are always secondary to the message and many never learn how to do it right. For many, the exception becomes the rule.

I think that some slang, funky punctuation and everyday language is necessary for many markets but also feel you need to know the rules before you go bending and twisting them all over creation.

[Alexa Smith]

Originally Posted by travlinguy

I think it's a disservice to tell a young copywriter that those things don't matter as long as you're able to 'relate' to your readers. The problem with that is the aspiring writer feels that grammar and spelling are always secondary to the message and many never learn how to do it right. For many, the exception becomes the rule.

I completely agree.

People employing the services of someone promoting writing services are entitled to expect a product free from mistakes of spelling and grammar. Non-writers producing their own copy should use a spellcheck and at least have the text proofread (for grammatical and other errors) by someone with a decent standard of literacy, if not by a writer.

Mistakes in copy do lose sales, because many people think they look "unprofessional" and find that discouraging. It doesn't matter what the vendor thinks: the bottom line is partly determined by what the potential customers think. I've never heard of anyone not buying a product/service "because the copy was error-free".

[keystothemind]

I drive my friends and family mad by meticulously studying ever brand, advertisement and marketing letter I come across.

Viewing the world through the eyes of a soon to be copywriter causes me to evaluate everything for persuasive ability - I guess for us it's both a gift and a curse - we probably need to learn how to turn it off

[Raydal]

Grammar and the mechanics of the language are not the most
important elements of writing copy and that's why most
copywriters downplay it.

Some people hear "writing" and immediately remember their
English composition class and freeze! So you have to
remind them that writing copy is not the same ball game.

You'll be a more successful copywriter if you know how
to sell and can't write than knowing how to write and
can't sell. It's a matter of PRIORITY.

At the same time you have to be aware of how clients
evaluate your work and be sensitive to grammar because
they may equate your English skills with your intelligence.

If grammar is not your strong point then simply hire an
editor.

-Ray Edwards

[honestbizpro]

Great insights guys/gals. Much appreciated.

[David Raybould]

Great points by Alexa and Raydal.

It's more about the message than
how the message is delivered. Good
grammar can help you seem more
professional, but it's not the most
important factor by a long shot.

Like Ray says, that's what editors
are for.

Also, sorry ronakshah, I've just got
to call you out here buddy:

Originally Posted by ronakshah

Usually, slang is never written in sales letters though you could try using it if you like. If there is any, I have never seen as yet.

That's just not true. It's bad advice.
Slang elements are all over modern
copy, especially online.

Go and read just about any clickbank
salesletter, and you'll see what I mean.

I don't mean to be a dick or a pedant,
just didn't want to see the original
poster get bad information.

-David Raybould

[Ken_Caudill]

Originally Posted by travlinguy

My eyes gravitate to grammar, spelling and syntax issues. I've learned to tone down pointing that stuff out in here because this little avenue of IM doesn't necessarily represent readers of the New Yorker.

Still, I think it's a disservice to tell a young copywriter that those things don't matter as long as you're able to 'relate' to your readers. The problem with that is the aspiring writer feels that grammar and spelling are always secondary to the message and many never learn how to do it right. For many, the exception becomes the rule.

I think that some slang, funky punctuation and everyday language is necessary for many markets but also feel you need to know the rules before you go bending and twisting them all over creation.

I very much agree. Writing in vernacular takes skill. It doesn't take formal education to be a good writer, but that idea gets taken to extremes.

There are some very good writers who can't spell or punctuate, but they have the good sense to use editors.

Glaring, sophomoric errors show contempt for the reader and make the writer look stupid.

[Ronak Shah]

I think if your grammar is flawless, you're going to have a splendid time writing your sales letter. It will be an added motivation.

I definitely agree that improving our grammar & writing skills adds on to lot of value while writing a sales letter. Especially, it lets us be creative while writing flawless sentences. It raises our motivation and self-esteem which may result in a step towards the positive direction.

David, I haven't seen someone writing "You gotta be doing this right now!" Kidding. Thanks for the heads up though. Very much appreciated. Your comment is professional so no worries. Nothing personal. Thanks.

[honestbizpro]

As far as slang that is true I guess....I think twitter has created more silly new words it is almost like a new language!

And even grandparents know what hip hop is..ha.

But of course it always boils down to our target audience I guess.

[David Raybould]

Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan

Why do you think you are known as David "the dick" Raybould?

Always thought it was 'cause of my shady past
in the porn industry...

Guess not.



-David Raybould

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by David Raybould

Slang elements are all over modern
copy, especially online.

Go and read just about any clickbank
salesletter, and you'll see what I mean.

I agree, especially when it's niche specific "lingo". Use it at the right places strategically and it can work extremely well. Use it too much and it's like one of those 70 word headlines where the entire thing is yellow highlighted -- it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Read one of John Carlton's well-known sales letters for niches like golf, martial arts, or bodybuilding and you'll see niche specific slang sprinkled throughout. Same with Makepeace, Bencivenga, D'Anna with their well-known financial niche sales letters.

Mike

[honestbizpro]

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

I agree, especially when it's niche specific "lingo". Use it at the right places strategically and it can work extremely well. Use it too much and it's like one of those 70 word headlines where the entire thing is yellow highlighted -- it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Read one of John Carlton's well-known sales letters for niches like golf, martial arts, or bodybuilding and you'll see niche specific slang sprinkled throughout. Same with Makepeace, Bencivenga, D'Anna with their well-known financial niche sales letters.

Mike

Yep that is true Mike....what may be slang to people outside the target market may be what makes your target market warm up to you faster and relate to the message.

[writeright]

Originally Posted by honestbizpro

What is it like to live in the world of a pro copy writer?

I was in a chess chat where some supposedly very intelligent people can say some of the craziest things...but sometimes you see them correct each others chat grammar!

When I send emails sometimes I have to go back and check things like did I use an apostrophe where needed like when I say "its". Does that bother you guys?

Can you turn it on and off?

When you see someone else's sales copy do you break down each sentence? How effective it is? What can be different or trimmed down?

Do you take into consideration like public speakers what crowd you are addressing? Is Slang ever appropriate?

For me personally....I judge most copy on whether it really made me want to opt in or pull my wallet out...only then do I really take notice.

And actually take notes.

Have you looked out the car window and noticed that something's wrong with the copy in the hoarding? Well, it's the occupation hazard, I suppose Once a copywriter, always a copywriter... I guess. In a way, I long for the days when ignorance was bliss.

[honestbizpro]

I just had to look up some ScreenWriters blogs to see what types of things they would be chatting about.

They also use words to get a desired result to a certain extent. Interesting stuff.

Language on this one is a little raw though.

Screenwriting tips, tricks, rants, and observations from The Unknown Screenwriter

[Mark Blaze]

I often analyze the response of a wso or service right here in the warrior forum (especially if the 'owner' is new or not that well known).

Then pick out the good bits and use them myself!

Mark Blaze