Free Shortcut Course On How To Write Copy Like The Legends... Even If You Feel Like A Copy Moron Now

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by josephkerr

Metronicity... come off it already. You keep taking swings at me failing to realize there is nobody to swing at. You said selling is "giving people stuff they didn't even know they wanted or needed". Really? You really want to stand by that statement in the face of any number of interviews I could point to between Joe Polish and Jeff Paul about how selling is market research + arithmetic, or any number of newsletters put out by Halbert or Carlton that mention if you have to educate your prospect you're dead in the water, pioneers are the ones with arrows in their back, find a passionate hungry mob and sell to them?

Your statement implies come up with a product and then find a market thinking. I'm saying you should find a market and create your product around the interests of that market.

This isn't going to end well for you if you keep focusing on your bruised ego and trying to get that one up on me... and I'm not saying that to get a one up on you. You're shooting yourself in the foot and then getting angry when you look in my direction 'cause it hurts.

There is no one to be upped, unless you take things seriously. In which case you've already done more damage to yourself than I could ever do even if I did want to pick a fight (I don't, I've done my share of that).

Did you ever see that movie "Roxanne" with Steven Martin? There's this scene in the bar where some jock bully is trying to out-do him but he wins the crowd because he can blend with whatever the guy throws at him. Or watch "Thank You For Smoking".

In a public forum, you're not trying to convince your opponent of anything (even though I hold no opposition to you and don't consider you an opponent at all, you seem to really like opposing me)... you're after the audience.

So how much good does it do to stay focussed on bringing me down instead of contributing to learning? There's no reason that anyone has to take this post as me trying to beat the gospel drum. It's just that sort of thinking that I've made it my aim to evaporate. It could just as well be a dialog that's begun where everyone contributes.

There's one thing though, Travelinguy, that I'd arm wrestle you over in your assessment. You said if a writer comes here and can't take the heat of criticism, too bad. If you review my posts, you'll see I welcome criticism with open arms. I'm not afraid of it. What's to be afraid of? I might improve? I might learn something?

I don't follow your logic. You said "selling is giving people what they want". If you mean otherwise then explain yourself.

As for "bruised ego"? Huh? I could care less. No-one is "shooting themselves in the foot" or "getting angry". You're new here so perhaps you're not used to my blunt style. Too bad.

"There's no reason that anyone has to take this post as me trying to beat the gospel drum." Oh right. My mistake. I thought you knew it all.

You "welcome criticism with open arms". Right. We've noticed.

The rest of your post is gobbledy-gook. And it seems to me you're the one getting his knickers in a twist. I'm cool.

You say "It could just as well be a dialog that's begun where everyone contributes". That's the spirit. That's why I contributed the headline that I notice you're not too proud to use.

And BTW, what did you expect when you came out of nowhere with a post titled "Free Shortcut Course On How To Write Copy Like the Legends...Even If You Feel Like a Copy Moron". A post that some of us took issue with. And a post that you quickly took down and completely rewrote.

And another BTW - you say "Halbert or Carlton that mention if you have to educate your prospect you're dead in the water". Halbert was a great one for education - educating himself and his readers (prospects). One of the reasons he was so good. He'd thoroughly research every product he ever wrote for. And then he'd pass the knowledge on to his readers. Entertaining and educating his prospects at the same time. And often selling them something they didn't even realise they wanted.

ATTENTION: We Interrupt This Program For a Bit of Light Relief: TOVA-9 in The Gary Halbert Letter

[Scott Murdaugh]

Nope. Nothing could be further from the truth. That's not selling - that's servicing. Selling is more like "giving people stuff they didn't even know they wanted or needed". In other words "igniting a desire".

Mal, I'm going to disagree with you on this one...

When was the last time you bought anything that you didn't want?

I honestly can't remember buying anything that I didn't really want.

Now that I've disagreed, I'm going to agree with the other part of your post. Frank Kern comes to mind (no idea why)...

So take Mass Control. If Frank had said "This is Mass Control, it's $2k, click here to buy" it wouldn't have sold, obviously.

People don't want to buy "Mass Control", nor do they want to buy yet another guru marketing course.

They do want to know how the "big dogs" work up so much hype before a launch. And how they connect with their customers. And how to get affiliates on board. And how to pull off an insanely profitable product launch.

Hell, some of them probably bought just to see what kind of content you can package and get away with selling for $2k.

I didn't buy Mass Control but I've studied the launch. And Frank is tapping into things that people really want to know in order for their businesses to succeed.

Okay, another recent example. I dropped $100 on Craig Garber's book a few months ago.

It's a book about lead generation and copywriting for business owners. I'm not his target market.

I've read most of the books in the sticky thread. I've got some copywriting courses on my hard drive that I haven't had time to go through all the way yet. I'm constantly consuming copywriting/marketing information, and the last thing I wanted or needed was a pricey book and a $50/month newsletter subscription.

BUT, I'd eventually like to have a similar business model as Craig. I wanted to hear his advice on offline lead generation.

I wanted to see what kind of content he can package and sell for $100. I wanted to see what makes up a $50/month newsletter that people actually buy and stay subscribed to.

I wanted to hear his personal philosophies on business, marketing and copywriting. I wanted to hear his thoughts on charging top dollar for services. I wanted to see his back-end sales funnel, etc.

For not needing or wanting an overpriced book on marketing strategy, I had a lot of reasons to want it.

I've sold a lot of SEO courses.

No one wants an e-book on SEO. But they do want to know the fastest ways to build high quality links.

They want to know how to get results in the least amount of time possible. They want traffic and sales, and they want it yesterday.

So I do agree that sales is "igniting a spark of desire" and helping people realize why they should want a product... It's also convincing them why your solution is the best amongst the competition and... Well, we don't need another copywriting "how to" in this thread.

I completely disagree that sales is convincing people to buy stuff they don't want. That's like a vacuum cleaner salesman coming by my house and trying to sell me a $2k vacuum when I have all hardwood floors...

That's not sales, that's wasted time.

The most effective way to sell anything is to find out what people already want and are buying. Put a twist on it, supercharge the marketing and you're golden.

I have a feeling that we may actually agree on this subject and I'm misunderstanding your post.

But I don't agree that sales is ever about selling people anything they don't want or need. I've been involved with sales my entire life (I believe you have as well) and I've never sold anything that my market didn't want.

I just figure out how to make them want to buy from me.

I've sold vacations, mortgages, pianos, and a ton of other stuff... Never sold anything to someone who didn't want a vacation, money to pay for their house or a piano in their living room.

-Scott

[Lucius]

Copy Gods, please holster your egos. I'm now finding it difficult just to breathe through all the puffed up feathers. I'm learning things from all of you. I even visit some of your blogs and I'm astounded by the wealth of information freely given. Great Stuff...Special mention to Paul's edgy blog I even tried to buy him a beer; And Joseph; I'm loving your stuff, keep the experiment going; Mind you, if this was the 1470's I'd be burning on some stake...and so would you.

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by Scott Murdaugh

I have a feeling that we may actually agree on this subject and I'm misunderstanding your post.

Quite possibly. I did say "igniting a desire". The rest was paraphrasing the OPs statement.

[josephkerr]

@ "You "welcome criticism with open arms". Right. We've noticed.

...And it seems to me you're the one getting his knickers in a twist."

Hahaha. That's more like it. You zinged me. Well done. I had you figured for a reckless buster of chops, guess I was wrong.

[Curleyjohn]

Funny how all the "accomplished" copy writers felt the need to read this thread in the first place. For all the talk of this having a bad headline, it sure piqued the interest of the most experienced here.

It never ceases to amaze me how people manage to show their true colors even though they may be turning their prospective customers off in the process.

Guess that's the price you pay for freely offering your criticism with a "Damn the torpedo's" attitude.

Thanks for the post Joseph.