Do You Use NLP in your salesletters?

[Paul Hancox]

Originally Posted by MAJ

55% of communication is body language/physiological.

38% is tonality.

7% are words.

Do NLP language patterns work as claimed? You do the math.

Sure, but how much body language / physiology / tonality can you get into a sales letter?

[MAJ]

Have you ever seen any empiricle, scientific evidence that embedded commands slip past the conscious mind to the unconscious? Or that they even work?

And if they do work, do they work only on people with lower than average IQ's or people who are under emotional duress or not thinking critically due to drugs or alchohol?

Look at some of the Derren Brown videos. Some of the people he deals with look like they may be "buzzed" or taking medication or just feeling dizziness or confusion. Guys like him carefully select who they're going to do these stunts with first.

By the way:

Stories and metaphors aren't NLP, they've been around since the beginning of time.

Disclaimer:

I believe there are some therapeutic benefits to NLP but it's certainly over hyped.

[Paul Hancox]

Hi MAJ

Originally Posted by MAJ

Have you ever seen any empiricle, scientific evidence that embedded commands slip past the conscious mind to the unconscious? Or that they even work?

Well, I'm not a scientist, so I don't read many scientific papers. They can work simply because they're a part of language. If I tell you "don't think of a pink elephant", you find it very difficult NOT to think of a pink elephant... it's just the way our mind works.

The command to "think of a pink elephant" may not even be deliberately embedded in there, and yet you'll still do it, involuntarily.

Did you find yourself think of a pink elephant... even for a brief moment... despite me telling you not to?

And if they do work, do they work only on people with lower than average IQ's or people who are under emotional duress or not thinking critically due to drugs or alchohol?

Look at some of the Derren Brown videos. Some of the people he deals with look like they may be "buzzed" or taking medication or just feeling dizziness or confusion. Guys like him carefully select who they're going to do these stunts with first.

Absolutely. Derren Brown is first and foremost an entertainer. A mentalist. Embedded commands are just one tool in his "bag of tricks". So he knows how to create confusion, which can lead to suggestibility.

But I think you're confusing what Derren Brown does with NLP.

NLP isn't mentalism. Sure, it shares some similar elements, but NLP is primarily a model for change and excellence. Mentalism is entertainment.

By the way:

Stories and metaphors aren't NLP, they've been around since the beginning of time.

Of course. Agreed.

[MAJ]

Just to communicate like a normal human being you have to insert verbs throughout your writing, don't you? Does that mean they're "embedded commands"?

I saw this one NLP video where a guy wanted to demonstrate Analog Marking on a young woman to get her to do something. In comes this young woman who looks like she's buzzed or on some kind of medication and he starts talking to her, analog marking, and she ends up doing what he commanded her to do.

Aside from this young lady looking buzzed, how do you know he didn't pre-condition her? How do you really know she didn't just play along? People lie. And there is a ton of money being made by NLP guys selling snake oil.

People want to believe there is some kind of Jedi-like mind control - it doesn't exist.

When the rubber hits the road and these guys come under fire, they resort to talking about metaphors and stories as NLP to save face.

[Paul Hancox]

Originally Posted by MAJ

Just to communicate like a normal human being you have to insert verbs throughout your writing, don't you? Does that mean they're "embedded commands"?

My point was simply that, when a person says "Don't X", X might be perceived as an embedded command, whether the person speaking intended it to be an embedded command, or not.

Aside from this young lady looking buzzed, how do you know he didn't pre-condition her? How do you really know she didn't just play along? People lie. And there is a ton of money being made by NLP guys selling snake oil.

Maybe.

People want to believe there is some kind of Jedi-like mind control - it doesn't exist.

Of course. If such a thing existed, all copywriters would be using it and getting conversion rates close to 100%.

When the rubber hits the road and these guys come under fire, they resort to talking about metaphors and stories as NLP to save face.

Do you know what NLP is? This statement seems to suggest you don't.

[CopyMonster]

MAJ - good stuff, sticking to your guns and speaking up. No one, absolutely no one, should accept any idea or suggestion without solid evidence, facts or data to back it up. Where would society be if people just did that? Now, I'm pretty sure more than a few people out there would be happier if they'd checked into Bernie Madoff's operations a little more closely.

The fact of the matter is... there is copy written with NLP that SUCKS! There is copy written without NLP that SUCKS! So whether copywriter uses NLP or not, some copy can and does just SUCK. Me... now off the top of my head, I can recall lots of sales letters that just make you groan... "oh the poor soul that expects this sucker to convert!" You just wonder if the writer really knows what s/he is doing putting out copy like this.

Based on the conversations/discussions I've seen about NLP working or not in print, much of it seems to be around the "embedded command". One way we can look at this is that marketers of NLP/hypnotic language products have in some ways done too good a job. By this I mean linking that hot spot of desire, the ultimate "hot conversion" tactic that gets customers to drop their defences and buy, buy, buy to that magic button solution (ie. embedded command/jedi mind trick) - get this, and they will succumb to your will. Ah yes, how wonderful, how awesome, how supercalifragilistic... you're in heaven right now aren't you... I know it... I can see it Seriously though, the mention of NLP often leads to a focus on the embedded command and its effectiveness or not... depending on a person's viewpoint. NLP, when you discover what it really is all about, is more than embedded commands just as copywriting is more than writing a headline.

As practitioners of influence, copywriters of any value must use whatever tools they have at their disposal to persuade, to impact, to affect. They have a duty to their clients, to their prospects (assuming a proposition offers good value), to themselves. It's as simple as that. I know for myself, having looked at NLP and it's take on how different language constructs influence thought, I have a much deeper understanding and appreciation of certain word patterns that can lead and direct thinking. And for this, I am glad I have.

Final thought, I could spend a ton of time writing and persuading anyone reading this about NLP and it's ability to impact or I could be out there offering more value and making more money with it... now which one do you think I'm doing?

Peace