Copywriter recommendations for a sales page?

[YseUp]

Hey guys,

I've almost finished my first product in the self-help niche and I'll soon be looking to set it up on click-bank.

But before then I need a sales page written and maybe designed.

Is there anyone you can recommend for this job?

I have no idea what the cost for this is?

How much do you usually pay for sales copy? Or do you do it yourself? Do you get the copy-writer to do the design as well?

If I decide to pay someone to create the sales page my budget would be around $90

[AngieRammer]

Hi YseUp,

With all due respect, I think you're going to be seriously hurting in the copywriting department.

Finding someone to do a page of sales copy for under $97...uh.... you aren't scratching the bottom of the barrel, you've gone straight through the bottom.

Much respect,

Angie

[YseUp]

....ok

So how much do copy-writers usually hire themselves out for?

[Alexa Smith]

Did you write the product yourself? If you can write at all, then if you just read two or three web-copywriting books and have a few practice attempts yourself, the overwhelming probability is that you'll manage to produce something incomparably better than anything you could possibly commission in that price-range.

I'm a young, relatively inexperienced copywriter with little experience of Clickbank sales pages - just to give you an indication, I've done one only and I was paid $3,000 for it.

You might manage to get lucky and find a good copywriter through a WSO, who has vacancies at the moment, and might for $197 or $297 do a decent job for you - but it isn't easy. It's typically a job that requires around 30 - 40 hours of work for a trained professional. And the difference between their output and a "quick, cheap job" usually shows in the conversion-rate after the job's done.

(Please don't think I'm announcing my availability for work, here: I'm afraid I'm not available at all, at the moment).

[AngieRammer]

You'd be lucky to get a decent copywriter for under $500/page.

There are a lot of factors that go into that, as well.

And copywriters are primarily people who write, not those who
design or layout sales pages in html and css. Some do, but it
really is, pretty much, an area deserving someone who specializes
in that.

When someone is writing copy, you want them to be worrying about
how to get people to punch the buy button -- not how the site looks
in 3 or more major browsers, and why it looks one way in one and
a different way in another.

You may get lucky and find a copywriter who can provide you with both,
but I wouldn't count on it. (And, except for some notable exceptions,
a copywriter who is worrying about both is saddled with the kinds of
problems of "serving two masters.")

Much respect,

Angie

[YseUp]

Yes I created the product myself.

If the choice is between having a 3rd rate one made for $100 and not being able to afford a $3000 one just yet... I guess I'll decide to teach myself.

Thanks

[YseUp]

Originally Posted by AngieRammer

You may get lucky and find a copywriter who can provide you with both,
but I wouldn't count on it. (And, except for some notable exceptions,
a copywriter who is worrying about both is saddled with the kinds of
problems of "serving two masters.")

Much respect,

Angie

That surprises me because from what I've seen and read about sales page design a lot of thought is put in to where to place pictures and other graphics and also what the graphics look like.

[AngieRammer]

Originally Posted by YseUp

That surprises me because from what I've seen and read about sales page design a lot of thought is put in to where to place pictures and other graphics and also what the graphics look like.

That's true -- but many copywriters use tools to show how they want it to look. For instance, many copywriters deliver their copy in Microsoft Word.

And even if they have enough knowledge to make the copy look good in, say, Firefox
-- it doesn't mean that it will look good in Safari and Internet Explorer.
That's not what the copywriter you hire specializes in!

OTOH -- there is a free webinar tomorrow -- if you are interested in learning more about copy. It's an extremely good webinar. There is, of course, a follow-up "opportunity."

If you are interested, pm me and I'll give you (yes, my affiliate) link.
(I'm waiting for my classified ad to "go live.")

But the free stuff is dynamite.

Much Respect,

Angie

[wordwizard]

Originally Posted by YseUp

Yes I created the product myself.

If the choice is between having a 3rd rate one made for $100 and not being able to afford a $3000 one just yet... I guess I'll decide to teach myself.

Thanks

Good move, YseUp. Learning about writing and understanding copy is a great idea, whether or not you'll end up writing your own -- and who knows, you might find a new "career"...

Also remember that there is quite a range of options between $100 and 3k as Alexa has pointed out.

Originally Posted by AngieRammer

That's true -- but many copywriters use tools to show how they want it to look. For instance, many copywriters deliver their copy in Microsoft Word.

And even if they have enough knowledge to make the copy look good in, say, Firefox
-- it doesn't mean that it will look good in Safari and Internet Explorer.
That's not what the copywriter you hire specializes in!

OTOH -- there is a free webinar tomorrow -- if you are interested in learning more about copy. It's an extremely good webinar. There is, of course, a follow-up "opportunity."

If you are interested, pm me and I'll give you (yes, my affiliate) link.
(I'm waiting for my classified ad to "go live.")

But the free stuff is dynamite.

Much Respect,

Angie

Too true! I've been shocked to discover what my blog (and other stuff) looked like on Explorer! (I have a Mac).

About that webinar... Thanks for the heads up, Angie. I'd love to find out more about that one too, especially if it's as good as you say it is! Sent you a PM!

Elisabeth

[fasteasysuccess]

I agree with Alexa above. For that type of budget you would be definitely better off using that money and buying a book or course to help you write your copy. Any copywriter that tells you they will do that job for $90, you should run fast.

To Your Success-

[AngieRammer]

@Elisabeth -- responded to your pms. Hope you enjoy the webinar as much as I did.

@Mark,

As much as you seem to have a rep as a bit of a curmudgeon here on the forum...

try again

You and I are NOT disagreeing, not at all.

I am specifically saying that optimally you should have 2 people (at least) -- copywriter AND designer.

And from a pure project management perspective -- having the designer and the copywriter be the same person is nearly guaranteed to slow the project down.

Note carefully what I said -- having the copywriter worry about how the salesletter looks in all 3 major (or more) browsers -- and perhaps it would help if I emphasized -- getting them to look the same -- isn't the best use of the wordsmith's time. That stuff can be incredibly intricate and detailed, grappling with "quirks mode" in css so that stuff that looks perfectly fine in Firefox also looks the same in IE7 (er, or, at least some decision on "close enough to the same."). Working to create the underlying html and css -- the designer's job -- is, ideally, something the copywriter shouldn't be worrying about. How it looks -- You Betcha!

Been there, done that. Got lots of arrows sticking from my back.

I do copy, Mark. Not just the article writing listed below.

It was my frustration with trying to get the layout to look how I wanted with html and css (yes, I have a background in them), and the time it took away from architecting the persuasive elements, both graphical and verbal -- that had me take a break from copy.

Much Respect,

Angie

[AngieRammer]

Whoa!

Dude, you really need to chill.

The only thing we are disagreeing about is whether we disagree.

I have absolutely no problem with disagreeing with people.

However, when someone misconstrues, misrepresents or misunderstands what I've said, I DO take quite a bit of exception.

I'll leave it at "mis-understands", but your subsequent representation misconstrued what I said.

I'm sorry that you can't see through what I've said to try to come a common understanding and actually see where we agree.

But I'm not too interested in getting listed in John Taylor's "watch" -- the sticky at the top of the forum.

So I'll let resting dogs lie.

Have a good day, Mark.

[AustinLadyTam]

YseUp, here's how you should look at this sales page project--the more money you spend, the higher your conversions should be.

Here's a very rough example with made-up numbers to illustrate my point:

A $90 sales page probably won't convert at all. No sales means you just WASTED $90.

If a $500 sales page converts at 3% and your product sells for $20, then you need to get 833 visitors to your site to recover the cost of the sales page.

If a $3,000 sales page converts at 25%, you only need 600 visitors to your site to recover the cost of the sales page.

Make sense? Higher priced sales pages convert much better so they pay for themselves more quickly, and then you make many more sales. A great sales page is a great investment. But at $90, you're most likely just going to waste your money and then have to pay a REAL copywriter more money to start fresh and write a real sales letter.

Don't waste $90 on cheap copywriting that doesn't work.

[prettyboy]

I get what you're saying AngieRammer. I've always said, "why is the heck would someone hire a writer to do design work?"

True there are some who can write and do a "little" design work, but for you as a merchant, you want to have the very best person you can doing specific jobs. A lot of times what you'll get is a very good writer, but then the design work is just average. The best thing to do as a merchant is to have someone who specializes in writing copy and someone who specializes in design work. This helps to ensure that you're getting the best result possible in which you can afford. If you happen to find a writer with a solid design partner then that's even better.

I would never expect a designer to write copy just as good as he designs nor would I expect a writer to do design work just as good as he or she writes. Having "a true writer" do design work for you is just crazy in my book.

It's great for the writer who also calls himself or herself a designer because it's more business for them, but for YOU as a merchant, you want the best result possible, which usually comes from using people who specialize in certain areas in which you can't do yourself.

[AngieRammer]

Originally Posted by prettyboy

I get what you're saying AngieRammer. I've always said, "why is the heck would someone hire a writer to do design work?"

True there are some who can write and do a "little" design work, but for you as a merchant, you want to have the very best person you can doing specific jobs. A lot of times what you'll get is a very good writer, but then the design work is just average. The best thing to do as a merchant is to have someone who specializes in writing copy and someone who specializes in design work. This helps to ensure that you're getting the best result possible in which you can afford. If you happen to find a writer with a solid design partner then that's even better.

I would never expect a designer to write copy just as good as he designs nor would I expect a writer to do design work just as good as he or she writes. Having "a true writer" do design work for you is just crazy in my book.

It's great for the writer who also calls himself or herself a designer because it's more business for them, but for YOU as a merchant, you want the best result possible, which usually comes from using people who specialize in certain areas in which you can't do yourself.

Hey, thanks, PrettyBoy....
I hadn't expected to return to this thread, let alone see such a nice response.

That's part of what I was saying.

Certainly, by saying that I did not mean nor mean to imply that copywriters don't know (nor do not need to know) anything about design or layout. Far from it. Waaaay far from it.

If I'm trying to figure out, say, how to get quirks mode in css to work so the layout of the sales page looks the same in IE6 and Firefox, I'm not thinking about copy. It's not that I don't care about the basic layout of the page.

There ARE some exceptions. For instance, in Jason Fladlien's new copywriting program (see sig), he will be providing templates along with a pointer to free software where you can use macros to easily modify the templates. In that case, the copywriter can easily also layout the sales page.

But, for the most part, for most copywriters, it probably makes more sense to hire someone who is separately responsible for making sure that the layout of the web page conforms to the desires of the copywriter -- and does so in all the major browsers.

Thanks again -- and enjoy your time on the WF!

Much Respect,

Angie

But it's by no mean the rule.