Ryan Deiss says long form sales letters are dead... What do you think?

[dtendrich]

Hey,

I just checked out Ryan Deiss's sales video for Ryan Deiss' Video Sales Letter Formula

...He blatantly says that long copy's dead -
and that video is the only way to go these days.

He also throws out some figures saying once he
ditched long form sales letters, his conversions
went from 2.1% to 6.9%, which he discovered
from sending equal amounts of traffic to a
split test of video vs. long copy.

What do you think? What's your take on this?

David

[Desmond Ong]

Originally Posted by dtendrich

Hey,

I just checked out Ryan Deiss's sales video for Ryan Deiss' Video Sales Letter Formula

...He blatantly says that long copy's dead -
and that video is the only way to go these days.

He also throws out some figures saying once he
ditched long form sales letters, his conversions
went from 2.1% to 6.9%, which he discovered
from sending equal amounts of traffic to a
split test of video vs. long copy.

What do you think? What's your take on this?

David

It depends David. Especially on how you see your websites but one think for sure, long form sales letter is not dead.

I started using video sales letter recently on some of my weird niche sites and some of them converted really well for me -- some not. So it's important to split test.

D

[Ken_Caudill]

I think he's selling a video sales letter product.

[Raydal]

But he is just READING the long sales letter. So I guess they
are dead because they need to be spoken?

So is the FORMAT dead or the content?

-Ray Edwards

[dtendrich]

Originally Posted by Desmond Ong

It depends David. Especially on how you see your websites but one think for sure, long form sales letter is not dead.

I started using video sales letter recently on some of my weird niche sites and some of them converted really well for me -- some not. So it's important to split test.

D

Hey,

I agree. I think there's a lot of factors that go into it. And I think he's leaving out a lot when he cites his 2.1% to 6.9% jump. Those figures sound nice - but I'm sure there's a story behind that that involves a lot more than just switching to video.

One thing's for sure though... When done right video works great.

Same thing for long copy though.

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

I think he's selling a video sales letter product.

Lol... Yeah.

David

[dtendrich]

Originally Posted by Raydal

But he is just READING the long sales letter. So I guess they
are dead because they need to be spoken?

So is the FORMAT dead or the content?

-Ray Edwards

Hey...

Nicely put... I'm not sure. But I bet after video is out for a while and everyone switches to that - it'll be refreshing to see a long copy sales page

I gotta say though - I personally love the long copy. When it's done right.

David

[kpmedia]

I honestly don't think anybody ever read those anyway, it was mostly fodder for SEO and the engines. People might actually watch a short video, instead of read the ridiculous 1-page novel, and that can easily equate to more sales if the product is good, the visitor feels a need/want, and the price is right.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Perhaps long, self-indulgent sales letters are no longer effective.

Realistically, if marketers were paying for printing and postage,
they'd be a lot more restrained and concise. Since bandwidth is
so cheap, long sales letter often get bloated - and readers get
bored.

I'm talking about the difference between 10 and 20 pages, not
2 and 8, which are still long-form ads by direct mail standards.

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by dtendrich

What do you think? What's your take on this?

I think he's trying to sell a video only product.

I also think he's made a critical Salesmanship 101 mistake on his site: When the prospect is ready to order, you stop talking and you take their order. Except he doesn't have an order button already up there for people to order.

Nope.

He's expecting people to sit there and listen to him for the entire pitch before they can order.

It's like a single guy in a bar telling a girl who already said she wants to go home with them... that she needs to wait until they finish their presentation on "97 reasons why she should pick them over all of the other guys at the bar that night".

Most girls aren't going to stick around and wait for the presentation to be completed.

My 3 cents,

Mike

[MontelloMarketing]

Originally Posted by kpmedia

I honestly don't think anybody ever read those anyway, it was mostly fodder for SEO and the engines. People might actually watch a short video, instead of read the ridiculous 1-page novel, and that can easily equate to more sales if the product is good, the visitor feels a need/want, and the price is right.

Hahahahahahahahhahaha!!!!!

Wow... what you don't know about marketing could fill an entire SEO-fueled long sales letter that nobody ever reads anyway.


hahahahahahahaha!!!!

This place is amazing!

[Sam Mlambo]

I've seen this topic discussed quite a few times. And my thinking has always been that the words in video is just copy. I don't think long sales letters are dead just because video is more usable.

Maybe in some markets, a video is more suitable for selling... But I wouldn't discount a sales letter from doing the job either.

- Sam

[dtendrich]

Hey,

I have a question... I'm trying to respond to what a bunch of people said, but I don't know how to quote a bunch of people in one post without clicking "quote", copy/pasting, then click back, then repeating until I have a post with everyone's quotes...

Is there an easier way to do this? I kinda feel like I'm kicking a wall and I don't even know it.

I guess for now I'll use the "@" symbol. It's way easier than clicking "quote" 20 times...

@kpmedia - If no one ever read those things than I guess people just scrolled through every long form sales page I ever wrote and clicked "Add to Cart" without reading a single thing in between.

...I feel kinda dumb thinking that if the copy was super targeted and focused on the reader they'd take interest and read. Maybe I'll just start putting "Add to Cart" buttons with no text.

Thanks for the suggestion, man.

@Loren - You make good points. Then again - I dunno if self-indulgent letters ever sold anything (except an ego boost)

@Mike - The thing is it's a great sales pitch - even though you're totally right. It's obviously skewed to help make the sale.

I wonder though if the Add to Cart was there the whole time if that would kill more sales than not having it because if that's the first thing people see... Then it's a little pre-emptive to ask for a sale when they don't know what they're buying...

...And instead of watching the video they'll just click the button, see the price, then make a decision solely based off of that instead of off of the content of the video.

I guess only testing will tell

[jonlefave]

Say that to John Carlton.

In all seriousness...yeah, it's marketing hype for Deiss. Got your attention, didn't it?

This is my opinion (grain of salt material here):

Are you good with making video? If so, chances are your message can be amplified by your video skills, AND you might keep the attention of the ADHD type.

That doesn't mean you should ditch copy all together. What about those who don't have the ability to access your video? (Mobile devices, anyone?) You'd lose potential prospects.

Or what happens if your video skills... well... suck big time? If you're trying to sell a $197+ product... you don't want their first impression of you to scream AMATEUR! With a properly constructed sales letter, your prospect imagines things much more powerful than what video can do for you.

Long form sales letters have it's place. You need to decide in where it should be used, folks.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Originally Posted by dtendrich

@Loren - You make good points. Then again - I dunno if self-indulgent letters ever sold anything (except an ego boost)

I say that because I've personally written overlong, self-indulgent
sales letters that converted well. People can be tolerant if they
like and understand the offer - so if your letters punch-through with
a clear offer, whether or not they are long-winded, they can convert
well. There's no hard and fast rule to it. Some people are sub
literate and resistant to reading, but for a complex and high-priced
product many people will read A LOT before they decide you're telling
them too much and they lose interest because your copy is
longer than they prefer.

Now, I'm fussier, more skilled and more critical of my own writing.
Even for high priced, complex offers.

"If I Had More Time I Would Write a Shorter Letter"
Mark Twain

[Kezz]

I think everyone just needs to remember the reason sales letters worked in the first place.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but in ye olde days prior to the internet, direct marketers realized that if they sent a letter addressed personally to someone they tapped into people's excitement at receiving mail.

Before email, a long letter in the post usually meant hearing from a friend or loved one who lived at a distance.

Taking advantage of this caught people with their guards down, worked around the "ad blindness" of the day, and then intrigued them enough to read on before they could put their guard back up again.

When the internet showed up, direct marketers realized they could take the exact same approach and just put it online - hence the term sales "letter" and the format we still use today.

Obviously it's not a real letter anymore, but the underlying principle should still be the same, right?

Make people comfortable, and scoot around whatever today's "ad blindness" is.

Sure, video might do this automatically to a certain degree because it's a little new and that does remove some "ad blindness".

But, a sales letter can still achieve the same thing, if it sticks to the principles that made them work in the first place.

If a letter is full of things that make people uncomfortable, screams "Gimme your money!" and instantly puts people's "I'm being sold to" barriers up, then it forgets what it is actually trying to do.

It's not the format that does or doesn't sell. It's the content and the underlying principles.

Put the right principles behind any format, and you should be able to create results.

[Daniel Sanchez]

Armand Morin is saying the same thing that sales letters are dead but I supect that it's just the print copy. Love to know what his perspective is on this.

Frankly copywriting is just following proper sales and persuasion and can be transferred to almost any medium imo and frankly should be. Maybe in video format it would need top be shorter though. I think people are conditioned for a shorter attention span with video.

Oh and I didn't read anything on this self indulgent long thread. I psychically knew by the headline what this whole thing is about and didn't read anyone's responses. I just figured I would type a bunch of stuff and click reply. No one think and reads anything anymore. Just thought I would put that out there.

"Hahahahahahahahhahaha!!!!!" - just to quote some random guy whose post I didn't read and knows nothing about copywriting and still makes a terrific living at it somehow.


Something is only long when it's sucks and is boring and blatantly concerned only about taking someone's money.

ps - real sales letters are constructed the way they are because they hit the major learning styles of people by their structure. Some like reading everything, getting all of the details, while others just skim the headlines. Real Copy writing is the epitome of persuasion EVERYTHING in the copy is calculated, tested and proven by the almighty authority: sales

[The Copy Nazi]

So boring-ass long-form salesletters are dead and are being replaced by...long boring-ass videos. I couldn't watch to the end - too painful. He goes on...and on...and on doesn't he? (Kern does a much better pitch - full frontal) Thing is...Deiss makes his point early in the video...you might think "cool, I want it" - but as Mike has already pointed out - where's the order button?

Love the name of it though -

"The 12-Step Template" *

Step 1. We admitted we were powerless over copywriting and that our lives had become unmanageable

Step 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than long-form sales letters could restore us to sanity

Step 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of Ryan Deiss - as we understood him

Step 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of our filthy long-form salesletter copy

Step 5. Admitted to Ryan Deiss, to ourselves, and to another human bean the exact nature of our copy wrongs

Step 6. Were entirely ready to have Ryan Deiss remove all these defects of copy

Step 7. Humbly asked Ryan Deiss to remove our shortcomings

Step 8. Made a list of all persons we had slagged off on forums and became willing to make amends to them all

Step 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible - except when they were real assholes

Step 10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong didn't admit it to anyone

Step 11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our copywriting - praying that we could continue to write long-form salesletters even though some cats say the party's over

Step 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to all long-form salesletter copywriters and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

* With apologies to Copywriters Anonymous and Ryan Deiss.

[kpmedia]

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

Wow... what you don't know about marketing could fill an entire SEO-fueled long sales letter that nobody ever reads anyway.

Originally Posted by dtendrich

If no one ever read those things than I guess people just scrolled through every long form sales page I ever wrote and clicked "Add to Cart" without reading a single thing in between....I feel kinda dumb thinking that if the copy was super targeted and focused on the reader they'd take interest and read. Maybe I'll just start putting "Add to Cart" buttons with no text.Thanks for the suggestion, man.

Oh good grief. Drop the attitudes.

What you're overlooking is this:

1. You've either written such amazing copy that the person quit reading and went right for the cart.
2. Your clients are idiots and may very well buy something that has two sentences and a big "buy now" button.
3. Your particular product was recommended to them before they even got to the site.
4. You've lost out on customers because you have no skills at copywriting. Yeah, maybe you got some sales, but maybe you would have gotten more without all the long-winded blowhard BS I so often see in those mile-long snooze fests.

... or any combination thereof.

Those 4 items are far more likely that somebody spending 30+ minutes reading 1 page of marketing BS. That just doesn't happen. Not in printed junk mail, and surely not online.

There's no reason to write as poorly as many of those sites do, aside from wanting to cover all your bases with keywords and key phrases. Either that, or having the writing abilities of a junior high student. A professional copywriter (i.e., somebody writing for print marketing) would find it hard to get a job with that level of copywriting abilities. Most of those things are terrible.

Is video better than print? Hmmm, I wonder. Think about informercials vs junk mail. None of this is new.

[Reeveso]

I would point out a few things about this - some have already been pointed out so forgive me

#1 - Long form sales letters are NOT dead. What's dead...is copywriter's who don't have the skills to write long form sales letters which are actually GOOD.

In other words - lazy copywriters are dead.

#2 - In some markets, video does A LOT better than text. In other markets, text does A LOT better than video. Same script, same person talking. All other variables the same.

This could be simply because the person isn't confident, has a negative appearance (i.e. doesn't fit the target market), etc. etc.

#3 - Deiss has been riding trends like crazy lately. He sees a trend, exploits it to make it look like if you don't switch NOW it's the end of the world, then moves on. Keep in mind, I'm still a fan of Deiss and love his products - but this is what he's been doing lately.

#4 - Some of the most successful companies in the direct response world are still using 24,32+ page magalogs, getting HUGE responses...and making hundreds of millions of dollars.


#5 - Someone pointed out that the momentum has shifted from text --> video and that it might go back. Personally, I think it WILL go back. It's the same as online marketing. At first it was dirt cheap and all the rage. Now...you can get traffic a lot CHEAPER by going offline in many cases.

That's my say in it at least For my upcoming website, I'm personally going to be testing text vs. me on video vs. powerpoint video and see what converts the best for ME.

Because after all, that's all that matters. What converts the best for YOU and your specific product.

[RyanParenti]

Video grabs attention. That's what you need in copy.


Be honest. Who really reads the entire copy?

I usually just skim through to the bottom of the page and see the list of what you get to make a choice.

Another bonus from Video is that they don't know it's a pitch until they are warmed up and sold.

In essence, the video is just a better way to grab attention. But it's still the same thing because they are just reading the sales letter... every time.

[Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter]

As has been pointed out, video is just "salesmanship in video" (get it? A little play on the old "salesmanship in print"...nevermind...)

Anyway I do believe long-form copy as we have normally positioned it is dying and is mostly dead, but video is only one of the alternate ways of presenting your sales message.

Here's the thing:

People aren't reading long sales letters unless they are extremely interested in the product. Even people who are ready to buy often do not read the entire sales letter. We need to keep this in mind as we create a sales process. We have to provide ways for our prospects to view all the information they want without forcing them to wade through information they don't want.

How do we do that?

By creating online sales materials that, instead of being in one long sales letter, is broken up into clickable or hoverable "more info" buttons; having product details come up in a lightbox when requested; even breaking video descriptions into separate chunks.

If we want to be competent copywriters today we need to be able to do more than simply "write." We need to be competent to advise clients about the technical aspects of a working sales process and show them how those "chunks of information" can be presented so the prospect can access them as he chooses.

My 2 cents.

[Kevin-VirtualProfitCenter]

Originally Posted by Paul McQuillan

Video needs to be short, entertaining and easy to follow.

Think that's easy? Go do it and let us know how you did.

You'll be back talking about "how do I write a kick-ass sales
letter?" in no time....

The bar for entry into web business keeps getting higher. The faster people start doing business and making money NOW, the better able they will be to adapt.

I understand why he says at the beginning of the video something to the effect of "crappy videos sell really well" because he had to counter the argument that most people can't make a video at all--let alone a decent one.

I don't mean to pick on Ryan, I suspect his product will do well and he will make a good deal of money. But the reality is that most people can't make a decent video of any kind even with help.

[Loren Woirhaye]

I've tried to get clients to make videos to support the
copy and marketing work I do for them and the results
have been atrocious. Worse than crappy.

Video marketing is a real skill that takes time to learn.
You don't need a lot of expensive equipment though,
so it's accessible to those who are determined.

Personally I rarely watch video sales pitches. They
bore me. The IM ones anyway. I like TV informercials
though - some of them are amazing works of
calculated persuasion.

[MontelloMarketing]

Originally Posted by kpmedia

Oh good grief. Drop the attitudes.

My point (which you totally missed) was if you think longcopy is all about... or even partially about SEO then you know nothing about this business. That's not attitude. It's fact

There is no place in a longcopy sales letter for on page SEO. The longcopy is exclusively about persuasion and salesmanship. But you don't seem to have picked up on that at all. Hence... you know nothing about this.

[Reeveso]

Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye

I've tried to get clients to make videos to support the
copy and marketing work I do for them and the results
have been atrocious. Worse than crappy.

Video marketing is a real skill that takes time to learn.
You don't need a lot of expensive equipment though,
so it's accessible to those who are determined.

Personally I rarely watch video sales pitches. They
bore me. The IM ones anyway. I like TV informercials
though - some of them are amazing works of
calculated persuasion.

Loren you make a great point here - the success of a video salesletter is going to be the EXACT same type of success you'd see with different copywriters.

In other words...

Great salesletters = great results
Bad salesletters = bad results

Great videos = great results (possibly great than great salesletters)
Bad videos = bad results

Here's an idea - how about MIXING videos with salesletters? I'm trying this out on a product right now. It gets the best of both worlds

[MontelloMarketing]

I've been preaching this for 3 years now. All my testing shows short video (or even videos) inside a real sales letter outsell video alone... or letters alone.

The only exception to the rule is the current fad with the powerpoint reading of a sales letter. And this is just a fad.

[Scott Murdaugh]

The only exception to the rule is the current fad with the powerpoint reading of a sales letter. And this is just a fad.

Vin,

I don't agree or disagree, I don't know. Why do you think it's a fad?

I've been through the course. I don't know what's B.S. and what isn't, but Ryan claims that the powerpoint beat "pretty" videos in testing.

Maybe he's just sayin' what people want to hear, the easiest videos to make converted the best.

I'd be curious to know why you think it's a fad though.

You think face front to the camera, or videos with high production value is what we'll be seeing more of in the future?

A lot of great points in this thread.

@kpmedia: Vin's right. Not opinion, fact.

-Scott

[MontelloMarketing]

Originally Posted by Scott Murdaugh

Vin,

I don't agree or disagree, I don't know. Why do you think it's a fad?

I've been through the course. I don't know what's B.S. and what isn't, but Ryan claims that the powerpoint beat "pretty" videos in testing.

As I said... powerpoint videos are hot now. I have no doubt they beat "pretty" videos. But I believe it's a fad because everything that veers from the norm has always proven eventually to be a fad.

Maybe he's just sayin' what people want to hear, the easiest videos to make converted the best.
I'd be curious to know why you think it's a fad though.

You think face front to the camera, or videos with high production value is what we'll be seeing more of in the future?

At least not in the near future. But let's face it... eventually the web will mix with tv and it will all be one. At that point the more sophisticated videos will most probably be what everyone expects.

That said... my point about the ppt videos being a fad really isn't in comparison to other videos but in comparison to good old fashioned longcopy in conjunction with some brief videos.

All my clients who order ppt videos from me always have a ready to go old fashioned letter in the pipeline ready for the day the numbers slip. In fact the idea that this was a fad actually came to me from one of my clients. A smart one who makes a ton of money.

In fact this client is one of the earliest adapters of the concept and like I said... he's just waiting for it to burn out.

[Aussie_Al]

Originally Posted by dtendrich

I gotta say though - I personally love the long copy. When it's done right.

David

Haha me too - especially if its something I have a serious interest in - I will read that sucker all day long!

[kpmedia]

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

The longcopy is exclusively about persuasion and salesmanship. .

Then you need to explain why those letters are a mile long and repeat the keywords and key phrases over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and for about 25 scrolls of the page.

It's either (attempts at) SEO, or it's sucky writing ... pick one.

[RyanParenti]

There are advantages and disadvantages of both... it all comes down to testing and tracking.

But I am willing to bet video will win out mostly.

[BrianMcLeod]

Originally Posted by kpmedia

It's either (attempts at) SEO, or it's sucky writing ... pick one.

Perhaps you could enlighten us old-timers about
the breadth of your marketing experience...

...you make such bold, sweeping statements.

Surely you have the professional experience to
back up your opinions, yes?

Best,

Brian

[Scott Murdaugh]

It's either (attempts at) SEO, or it's sucky writing ... pick one.

Dude.

You have no clue who the hell you're talking to.

Come back here when you have more 6 figure launches under your belt than you can count on both hands.

Calling Vin a "sucky writer" is like calling Steve Jobs bad at business... You can have your opinion but it's wrong. Numbers don't lie.

-Scott

[kpmedia]

I"m referring to long letters "in general" -- not anybody's particular sites.

NOTE: Some of you ego-driven folks need to keep those things in check. Judging from the signatures in this post, none of you are selling things I would have looked at anyway, so I'm probably not talking about you specifically.

While a few of you may be good at this, I would wager that the majority of them ARE NOT. There's clearly a difference between what a letter-style site/page is supposed to be, and what people are out there actually doing.

Most of what I have seen in the past year or two is just repetitive incoherent rambling from somebody hoping to get rich quick. (And very often, the so-called "products" were ... I don't know ... like a collage of bad copy/pastes from the Internet. It was solid crap, even worse than the rambling come-on page.)

Given the choice between mile-long obnoxious text, and a short video, most people would pick the video. Just look at how popular some of the junk on Youtube is.

[MontelloMarketing]

First of all... I don't NEED to explain anything to you. I'm a good guy and someone who likes to teach which is why I CHOOSE to explain it to you.

That said... a good sales letter is as long as it needs to be and not a word longer. A bad sales letter is too long if it's more than a sentence.

As for keyword stuffing you will never (let me repeat that) NEVER see keywords stuffed into a sales letter written by a direct response professional. If you do see keyword stuffing then you're looking at something written by a hack article writer/seo crap purveyor.

Originally Posted by kpmedia

Then you need to explain why those letters are a mile long and repeat the keywords and key phrases over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and for about 25 scrolls of the page.

It's either (attempts at) SEO, or it's sucky writing ... pick one.

[MontelloMarketing]

Originally Posted by kpmedia

Most of what I have seen in the past year or two is just repetitive incoherent rambling from somebody hoping to get rich quick. (And very often, the so-called "products" were ... I don't know ... like a collage of bad copy/pastes from the Internet. It was solid crap, even worse than the rambling come-on page.)

Given the choice between mile-long obnoxious text, and a short video, most people would pick the video. Just look at how popular some of the junk on Youtube is.

First... crap writing whether in print or on video is crap writing. Those types of things you're talking about aren't copywriting. They're just hacks being hacks. They're often English as a third language bottom feeders who know nothing about copy.

And if you know nothing about copy... you're not a copywriter. I mean, it's obvious by some of the things you've written in this thread that you don't know anything about copy. You wouldn't call yourself a copywriter, right?

And seriously try to think before you say some of these things you say. Dude... youtube may have a bunch of views but youtube is notoriously bad at selling anything. There are a few instances where a really cool viral video was capitalized on for selling purposes... but the vast majority of the million view + videos couldn't sell free food to a starving person.

You may not know copy but even you have to know this simple common sense fact... no?

[JohnMcCabe]

Originally Posted by dtendrich

Hey,

I just checked out Ryan Deiss's sales video for Ryan Deiss' Video Sales Letter Formula

...He blatantly says that long copy's dead -
and that video is the only way to go these days.

He also throws out some figures saying once he
ditched long form sales letters, his conversions
went from 2.1% to 6.9%, which he discovered
from sending equal amounts of traffic to a
split test of video vs. long copy.

What do you think? What's your take on this?

David

I think that the fact that Deiss is making these claims while promoting a product centered on video sales letters says any claims should be taken with a big enough pinch of salt to mummify an ox.

[Johnny12345]

Ryan Deiss says long form sales letters are dead...

Well, I guess that's it then. The copywriting party is over. It was fun while it lasted...

(...taking down my copywriting tent and folding it up...)

WAIT A MINUTE! Aren't video sales letters just written sales letters that are read aloud!

Yes, exactly.

Sales letters are NOT dead...

In fact, long videos have one, huge, fatal flaw -- you can't quickly and easily scan through them.

With a conventional sales letter, the prospect typically scans through it. When something catches their attention... they read. Then they scan again... this time, perhaps, reading a bit more.

You can't do that with a video.

Videos can be a great supplement to a conventional sales letter... but they're not a replacement for them.

(...setting my copywriting tent back up again...)

Johnny

[Vanquish]

Most people watch tons of TV especially in North America where a huge part of the IM market is so watching video becomes much easier and you can process info much faster because it hits you visually, emotionally and auditorally(is that a word?) therefore making your response to it much more powerful.

Also watching a video requires less effort because it is passive where as reading a sales letter is active and most people enjoy being passive more.

[prettyboy]

I know one thing for sure: Whether it's truly dead or not.....Ryan is loving this thread. A lot of free traffic to his site from a discussion going on between many long form sales letter writers. He's telling the world that what we do is dead and we're sending him customers. He did make a huge mistake by not having a buy button on the page and hoping that people would sit and listen to him talk until his buy button magically appears.

Personally I do both, text and video.

[Vanquish]

Originally Posted by prettyboy

I know one thing for sure: Whether it's truly dead or not.....Ryan is loving this thread. A lot of free traffic to his site from a discussion going on between many long form sales letter writers. He's telling the world that what we do is dead and we're sending him customers. He did make a huge mistake by not having a buy button on the page and hoping that people would sit and listen to him talk until his buy button magically appears.

Personally I do both, text and video.

Yes one thing I noticed is that Ryan took an extreme approach by saying long hand sales letters are dead. This extreme stance created controversy which in turn created this thread which will drive free traffic to Ryan's site. This is great marketing! I'm taking notes and most people should as well.

I think not having the buy button until the end is an interesting idea because being on his newsletter his titles are framed as content videos and when you dont see the buy now button you keep listening for juicy content you can use but then the buy now button hits you at the end and you managed to listen through the whle sales letter so you may be tempted to buy.

Would be interesting if Ryan came in and told us more about his secret ways...

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by kpmedia

Then you need to explain why those letters are a mile long and repeat the keywords and key phrases over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and for about 25 scrolls of the page.

It's either (attempts at) SEO, or it's sucky writing ... pick one.

It's both. One is called "keyword stuffing" which was all the rage years ago but will just get you penalised in the SERPS these days. And it's also bad writing. A page is as long as it needs to be - which is as long as it holds the reader's attention. Some writers are very good at it. Most of us aren't.

But there's another technique for long salesletters which I think is quite cool. Done right. It's called "the cliffhanger technique".

You have a bunch of copy - your "25 scrolls" if you like. But you break it into several pages. At the bottom of the page you finish on a "cliffhanger" - like they do in television and in movies. The reader must click on the link to see what happens next. Or not. Here's a pretty good example - Now You Can Have The Same Step-By-Step System I Use Each Day To Succeed in Affiliate Marketing

just send money.

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by Vanquish

Most people watch tons of TV especially in North America where a huge part of the IM market is so watching video becomes much easier and you can process info much faster because it hits you visually, emotionally and auditorally(is that a word?) therefore making your response to it much more powerful.

Also watching a video requires less effort because it is passive where as reading a sales letter is active and most people enjoy being passive more.

Or bore you to death and you click off without even being tempted to click a link or hit a Buy Button that's under your nose.

Go read some long-form Gary Halbert and tell me that aint entertaining. Now that's a copywriter. And that's the power of well-chosen words.

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by prettyboy

I know one thing for sure: Whether it's truly dead or not.....Ryan is loving this thread. A lot of free traffic to his site from a discussion going on between many long form sales letter writers. He's telling the world that what we do is dead and we're sending him customers. He did make a huge mistake by not having a buy button on the page and hoping that people would sit and listen to him talk until his buy button magically appears.

Personally I do both, text and video.

A "lot" of free traffic? Hardly. There's only ever 15 people and a lame dog reading this sub-forum at any one time.

[Ken_Caudill]

To produce a watchable video, you need a solid script, a competent video editor, a spokesperson with a modicum of charisma, the software and hardware to get the job done, and someone to oversee the operation. That's just the bare minimum. I'm not even going to go into props, music, lights, etc.

The novelty of video is wearing off, and it will wear a lot thinner when amateurish videos replace amateurish sales letters as the new scapegoat of IM.

The idea of watching a squeaky-voiced, post-adolescent geek drone on about the virtues of SEO frightens the hell out of me.

Maybe it's just a phobia.

I like video. I love the idea of animation and cartoons as attention-getters and message-bearers. Video will certainly become a standard for product demonstration.

The medium matters, but the message matters a lot more. Good copywriters use words to flesh out the frame of the sales process.

The reason the sales letter works, even in the hands of poor writers, is its top-down structure. The reader is in charge. She can skim the copy, read it at her leisure, mull over it, come back to it, buy the product or leave it alone.

A video forces the viewer into a linear experience. She must watch and wait for information.

Video is one weapon in the marketer's arsenal. It's not going to replace anything. In skilled hands, it will be effective. In the hands of amateurs it will be a train wreck.

[andrewkar]

Guys, Mr. Ryan is doing show.

He said that LONG COPY IS DEAD, Wow, I ‘am scared to death!
This is bait…

It is something “new”, something different and most importantly seems like a good opportunity to lazy “marketers”.

It will work of course but like others said before, only for those who know what they are actually doing.
Type of niche is in this case crucial.

Few days ago I was researching a competition at a click bank. Every top product in fitness-weight loss related category has video instead of traditional copy.

Should I use video on my website as well? I don’t think so. It’s already stinking like “sale”, I mean Dead Duck.

I don’t know but those video copies look a bit unprofessional to me.
Even if I will decide to do this, I still have to write great copy, have to make good “box” for that copy and make high quality video and bunch of other things.

In my opinion, great video may be even more demanding than classic text copy.

And if one is going to show his face on that video and directly talk to prospect, better for him if he is GOOD in what he is doing.

Anyway, I’m not an expert here so you decide what is better…

[DogBite]

Long form is not dead. It depends on your audience. If long form were dead then Dan Kennedy and Bill Glazier would be out of business. John Carlton would be looking for a new job as well.

If you are selling to a short attention span audience and your product is a quick sell, then long form may not be the way to go.

If the product is into the thousands then it is time to get out your pen and create the compelling story with details and bullets and explanation. This client will want to see it in writing.

Dale

[Profolegy]

"Video Sales Letters are Dead"
The Offer is everything
Test it yourself Sales letters will win overall in the long run.

[Kevin Rogers]

This may have been said, but the funniest part is... I just tried for 3 minutes to watch his vid and after the seventh skip and spin I said "fuggit, I don't care!"

the copy seemed pretty good though if it were a letter I'd probably still be reading it.

Vin nailed it (from what I read before the bar brawl): It's a combo... be on top of everything, but without the ability to write compelling long-form copy, YOU'RE DEAD.

[Anthony La Tour]

Video sales letters, are probably more likely to receive a high conversion rate.
every "big dog" is using video..frank kern for example perfected it.