Super agressive - does it work?

[Markus Wahlgren]

I have not tried this and I haveseen very few cases of it, but has anyone of you tried really agressive sales copy? Like talking down to the customer and acting superior?

Rich jerk did to some extent, something like "Hey loser! I'm rich and you're not. I don't care about you at all, but if I can get even richer by teaching you how to do what I do, I thought why not".

I sort of liked the brutal tone in the begining -it was somewhat tongue in cheek after all - but his follow up emails (don't ask when or what product, I wouldn't rmemeber) just got out of hand in my opinion, he crossed the line and was downright nasty.

So it would be really interesting to get some input of your experiences. What industry would it do well in? How to draw the line etc.

"Man you're ugly! No wonder you need *this* acne treatment"
"Yo mama so fat she couldn't click the mouse to order the FatlossSuper2000. Can you?"

Hardly good for goodwill or building a long term relation, right?

[John_S]

For one thing, it was novel. However, it's been tried.

Gary Halbert had one of his more impressive failures with the ad

Attention All Porkers

It's probably okay for the newbie get rich market. I'd be skeptical of it working well elsewhere. The one exception where a variation might work is sales training. (You really have to hang out with sales people to understand why)

Another alternative was just discussed. This is where a copywriter will have a price of $x thousands for "players" and payments for everyone else. A "This offer is for Adults Only" message discourages the low profit, high refund bottom feeders.

Plus, if you haven't the personality which could pull it off, it probably will sound false.

[janet444]

I think it can work in the get-rich-quick niche because you can be tongue-in-cheek. And now that it's been done, it'd be hard to pull it off again without sounding like a Rich Jerk ripoff.

When it comes to acne (which I know far too much about), it's too sensitive an issue. Same for weight loss.

Offhand, I can't think of another niche where that approach could be successful and not hit a nerve. Then again, it's morning and I'm still waking up .;-)

Janet

[Markus Wahlgren]

Yeah, I am thinking along the sames lines as you, thanks for your input. I can't think of any other markets where this would work either. Well, except maybe sadomasochism things where a submissive person would probably respond well to abusive sales copy. But that's another forum alltogether I suppose.

One psychologic factor I am thinking about here, is the not very logical attraction factor of "dangerous men". Some women want to help them get on the right track, stop drinking, gambling and stealing. Over and over, without success. Maternal instinkts at work? or is it something else? And is this a psychological trigger that can be found anywhere in sales copy too?

One (Swedish) ad I know of was "baby water" many years ago. Using old school scare tactics. "Is your tap water safe for your baby? Does your child not deserve safe and tested Baby Water?".

[Sparklesperson]

I think a person has to write the way they ARE - especially if it's for your own copy - or it comes across as fake. I end up writing what people say is really passionate, kind of in-your-face stuff, because I am really passionate about what I do - and I'm a bit of an in-your-face kind of person.

[janet444]

Originally Posted by janet444

Offhand, I can't think of another niche where that approach could be successful and not hit a nerve.

I stand corrected. Got a link to this from Jason Moffat's list today:

(For some reason this thing won't publish the link - it's to Matt Bacak's Pansy Report.)

I have to admit, I like it, even though I disagree with him on several points (didn't read the whole thing, just skimmed it and clicked through to the next two pages. But I guess this still counts as the "get rich" niche.

It's not as obnoxious as the Rich Jerk letter, but it's quite blunt.

I agree with Sparkleperson, too. I can write in different voices without sounding fake, but I can't be outright fake.

Janet

[zapseo]

Originally Posted by Sparklesperson

I think a person has to write the way they ARE - especially if it's for your own copy - or it comes across as fake. I end up writing what people say is really passionate, kind of in-your-face stuff, because I am really passionate about what I do - and I'm a bit of an in-your-face kind of person.

Uh...yah, and actors can only act like the personalities that they are....NOT!

Seriously ... people who can only write the "way they are" describes a non-versatile writer. Not necessarily a bad thing, depending upon the personality of the writer.

As far as the "baby water" -- that isn't aggressive -- that's just using fear.

Let's back track a bit. When I took a Tony Robbins' sales course I learned this phrase "first you hurt 'em, then you heal 'em." It was something I wasn't completely comfortable with for a long time until I understood it more fully.

People are conscious of very little -- it's not a fault, it's just how human minds work.

Consciousness is a tool to focus attention on things that need to attended to. What "hurt 'em, heal 'em" does is focus the reader's attention on parts of their experience that they aren't paying attention to (and, according to your wonderful salesletter and product, should be.)

Now, some people might call that "denial." I find that a rather perjorative description of how minds work.

So "baby water" is just saying -- "Pay attention ... you need to be afraid...there are things you don't know; things that they aren't telling you...and for the sake of the health of your lovely baby, you need to know this."

At least that's my take on it.

The problem with fear -- especially when using it in online salesletters is this: people are more likely to leave your page if they feel uncomfortable -- moreso than other advertising media.

One of the reasons -- imnsho -- that the Rich Jerk works is because it was also entertaining. The RJ said stuff like "don't you wish you were me?" And the reader, consciously or unconsciously -- said yah. Especially with that nice censored middle finger salute.

Matt Bacack's letter is quite a good letter -- it strikes a very consistent tone -- he is also making heavy use of "us vs. them." Which is also a strong motivator.

Probably NOT the approach I'll be using on the salesletter I'm currently working on...

Live JoyFully!

Judy

[dbishop]

It wouldn't work for me. But I don't like arrogant, and I don't like jerks. I think it would have to depend on your audience.

[dv8]

I think it depends on the audience.

For me personally, for the most part, I don't give a crap how you act. If what you teach me works, that's all I care about.

Example, I used to be in a mortgage coaching group. I was paying $1,500 a month for it. The coach was brutal. I could care less. But it bugged A LOT of other members. They eventually got sick of him and quit.

He didn't bother me. I liked his no nonsense approach. He knew what he was talking about.

[TianYan]

A few interesting observations here...

I for one can't use this style of speaking, because it's not me.
It would take practice to pull this off properly, but I prefer my
unhyped, empathetic style.

I would believe the key to making work is not to make the tone
arrogant, provocative or obnoxious for the sake of the persona.
Instead, it is used to keep the reader interested throughout the
whole copy.

Go listen to the John Carlton interview with Eben Pagan at his
simplewritingsystem.com website. Eben Pagan always poke fun
at the readers when answer questions for his David DeAngelo
newsletter in an arrogant way.

The same reason I think why people pay attention to Trump.
It's not the vanilla kind of person talking. After all, people live
lives of quite desperation. We are bored and we want content
to enrich our lives.

My take is it will only work to keep the reader interested and wanting
to read more. However, if it cross the line and insults or demeans the
ego of the reader, that is too much pain inflicted and you probably turned
them off.

Be Well.
- Tian Yan

[Loren Woirhaye]

I think maybe in the weight lifting/tough guy market
this angle may be good. Use with caution elsewhere -

you want to enter the conversation in your prospect's
head... so if that includes the tough talk (ie. prospects
are in the military or reading guns'n'ammo) you have
an opportunity to enter into their mindstream with the
right language... BTW you don't want to just "tough talk"
you actually have to "be tough" - look at Matt Furey,
great writer but his tough-guy image is built on the fact
that he's a world-class bruiser.

[shreder]

I like it

BUT
It might not be good for all types of markets, for example, for ACNE, If I've had it, I don't think i'll be purchasing something from someone who makes fun of me

He'll probably be making fun of me in the actual eBook or whatever the product is... I will be looking for someone to help me out and not make fun of me