You can tell that the copywriter sucks when...

[Nick Brighton]

1. They sell how to cope with divorce ebooks and use the headline "How to survive divorce, and make your friends jealous"

2. They spend the first paragraph telling me their life story

3. They don't use subheads

4. They make big promises, but don't explain how the product delivers those promises

5. They don't use bullets... and when they do, it's usually to tell you what it's NOT about

6. They depress the **** out of me

7. They assume one Dan Kennedy book, a strong coffee and a swipe will be enough to justify the ego trip

(...your turn!)

[Alex Cohen]

8. The sales letter doesn't have a good flow.

9. The copy doesn't appeal to the prospect's driving emotions.

10. The copy doesn't communicate differentiation.

Alex

[Jag82]

11. The copy is a headless (no headline) and tailless wonder (no P.S)

[Oxbloom]

...the copy sucks.

[Bruce Wedding]

And people rag on me for negative threads?

Who cares if the copy sucks? The client.

[dorothydot]

12. They use big long words instead of the type of language that the prospect would use. Never, ever let the words get in the way of the message!

13. They use either the first or third person. A good copywriter always focuses on the "You" factor, the WIIFM thing.

14. They spend way too much time talking about features of the product. In fact, most of them wouldn't know a benefit if it hit them in the face and stomped on their head five times! And it's always benefits that sell, as any good copywriter will tell you.

15. If they know at all that they need to make the prospect "experience the emotion", or "feel the pain" (or whatever), they hit that button far too hard. If you're in pain already, you certainly don't want to be reminded of it in graphic detail for umpteen paragraphs! A good copywriter knows to touch very gently and sensitively on the need - then go on with the message.

There's more, but that's enough for now.
Dot

[Pusateri]

The first thing they do is unpack their adjectives.

[AdmiralGloom]

Wow I realize why I don't like posting. Although I thank you for more helpful tips, don't get me wrong with that.

I feel as a newbie copywriter, I try my hardest. I don't expect my work to be better than anyone but I believe with practice I will get better.

I love arrogance, it keeps my heart pumping and the smiles rolling but when it comes down to it, do you ever think some of these people aren't trying to work around scamming themselves off as amazing copywriting artists? I surly do not.

I work 12am-8am Monday through Friday, when I get home I read at least 50-70 pages of copywriting information daily and work on fake products because I want to be for sure of my skills. Afterwards I sleep until it is time to go back to work. Weekends even more reading and practice and than on with the loop.


I am not asking for pity but it is what I do to achieve what I want out of life.

Edit: I don't expect you to care, by the way.

[Nick Brighton]

Originally Posted by Bruce Wedding

And people rag on me for negative threads?

Who cares if the copy sucks? The client.

You know Bruce, with the right mindset, you'll see the positive not the negative.

And as far as I'm concerned, this thread was started to bring out the real lowdown on what it takes to create GOOD copy and be a GOOD copywriter... nothing less.

Shame that didn't translate on your side, but that's what it was for.

But yeah, ultimately it's all about the client. Let's not bother helping each other here. Let's ignore this forum and let it die. After all, everything is irrelevant, and all that matters is what the client thinks.

[scrofford]

The headline doesn't attract attention, intrigue, create interest, and educate

[Ken_Caudill]

It reads just like every other Clickbank sales letter.

[Dan Axelrod]

Just wanted to pipe in here.

I half-disagreed with a number of these, but wanted to especially point out this one:

"5. They don't use bullets... and when they do, it's usually to tell you what it's NOT about"

There is a LOT of power in using bullets to say what the product isn't, and develop mystique about it.

How many of you have been suckered in by an internet marketing product that says:

*It doesn't require PPC
*Doesn't need you to write articles
*Doesn't need you to build a website
*Doesn't need you to build a list

When I read stuff like this, I feel "OMG, I can make money without spending much time OR money!"

A lot of people are going through a check-off list in their mind of what they don't want to buy and if you hit those points, you can really suck someone in. Descriptive bullet points are important, of course, but honestly, sometimes the bullet points about what the product is NOT will be the main meat.

--Dan

[Nick Brighton]

Actually Dan you're dead right. I kinda meant when they only use bullets to tell you what it's not, but forget that bullets have a better use to tell you what it i and build curiosity.

But yeah, I agree, telling you what's not required is great way to overcome some objections. Just don't make it the only set of bullets you've got.

(I guess it gets old when the bullets tell you it's not about something, but misses out the one remaining thing that it could be. Then, by default, it kinda reveals what it is.)

Originally Posted by Dan Axelrod

Just wanted to pipe in here.

I half-disagreed with a number of these, but wanted to especially point out this one:

"5. They don't use bullets... and when they do, it's usually to tell you what it's NOT about"

There is a LOT of power in using bullets to say what the product isn't, and develop mystique about it.

How many of you have been suckered in by an internet marketing product that says:

*It doesn't require PPC
*Doesn't need you to write articles
*Doesn't need you to build a website
*Doesn't need you to build a list

When I read stuff like this, I feel "OMG, I can make money without spending much time OR money!"

A lot of people are going through a check-off list in their mind of what they don't want to buy and if you hit those points, you can really suck someone in. Descriptive bullet points are important, of course, but honestly, sometimes the bullet points about what the product is NOT will be the main meat.

--Dan

[sethczerepak]

You forgot this one: When they feel the need to cut down other copywriters on forums.

[Collette]

Originally Posted by AdmiralGloom

Wow I realize why I don't like posting. ...I feel as a newbie copywriter, I try my hardest. I don't expect my work to be better than anyone but I believe with practice I will get better.

I work ...on fake products because I want to be for sure of my skills. ...

Hint: Don't take negativity personally. It's good practice for clients. Because, after busting your hump over your copy, you are going to have some clients who will rip it apart (justified, or not).

You're also going to have copy that bombs, to some degree or other, at some time or other. You have to be able to keep enough distance so that you can figure out what when wrong, and how to fix it.

Also, the best way to learn what will work is to write for real products.

Sign up for a couple of affiliate products in the markets you want to write for, and get going. If your writing is any good, you'll make some money. If it isn't, no one is going to be the wiser. You can tweak, rewrite, and revise to your heart's content as you learn, you'll eventually get paid (when the stuff sells), and you'll be building a portfolio.

Additionally, you SHOULD expect your work to be better than anyone. Clients don't hire a copywriter because they're just as good as everyone else (at least, not the clients you want). They hire a specific copywriter because they believe THAT copywriter is the best copywriter for them.

Yes, you always have to keep learning and getting better. But if YOU don't have confidence in your ability to deliver benefits to your client, you can't expect clients to have enough confidence in you to hire you.

I'm not talking about false arrogance. However, at any stage of learning, you should be striving to be better than most people at that stage. And you will be better than people who are still at the stage of learning you have already mastered and moved on from.

[Lauryn]

This was a pretty helpful thread.

[sierracharlie]

their headlines don't click with readers immediately...

they equate verbosity with sophistication...

they love using text on a dark background...

they believe more text is good...

they don't believe in white space...

they believe creativity is more important than relevance...

........................I could go on...

[tsg97]

Forgetting to include a P.S. is a bad mistake to make, especially since most readers of any sales letter tend to skip straight to the end after reading the headline =)

[tpw]

Originally Posted by Nick Brighton

2. They spend the first paragraph telling me their life story

Nick: What I know about copy writing is how to write a good resource box for an article. Beyond that, I am a dope on a rope.

I know that readers don't give a crap about you. The only thing they do care about is WIIIFM.

But in your opinion, is there ever a time to include a short personal bio?

Say for example, when you are needing to build credibility in the product and creator of that product?

Doesn't a short bio of the author sometimes give credibility to what has been written? And doesn't that help bring in some people, who may have otherwise been sitting on the fence?

[Ross James]

Originally Posted by tpw

Nick: What I know about copy writing is how to write a good resource box for an article. Beyond that, I am a dope on a rope.

I know that readers don't give a crap about you. The only thing they do care about is WIIIFM.

But in your opinion, is there ever a time to include a short personal bio?

Say for example, when you are needing to build credibility in the product and creator of that product?

Doesn't a short bio of the author sometimes give credibility to what has been written? And doesn't that help bring in some people, who may have otherwise been sitting on the fence?

I see a lot more use of it in bullets, to help verify and add credibility to your claims. but you're right it does have it's place, you need credibility and I know that's a fact in copy.

For example,

• Inside you'll learn a little-known trick I learned in the united states marines that teaches you how to clean your clothes without them ever touching water or having to be dried.

It's not as direct as saying, Hi My name is such and such and I served in the united states marines, blah blah blah this is why you should keep reading? Instead it serves as a linguistic bridge between the marines and the benefit while adding credibility.

Hope that helps,

Ross

[ASCW]

They spend most of their time and effort talking about things nobody cares about...

At all...

It can get pretty embarassing sometimes....

But more importantly....

When they offer you copywriting services, and then tie it in with SEO/content/some other non-copy offer...