STOP posting asking for critiques and do this instead....

[Scott Ames]

Shouldn't be either/or... Test for sure, ask for help: Yes... do whatever it takes.

[davemiz]

WOW.... I'm insecure... I can't spell.... keep going dude...

Mal, sounds like you're a little jealous... envious or...(the most likely) you've got a man crush on me... i can't quite put my finger on which one....

Sorry... I hate to tell you this... but I'm not into dudes.... so you're S.O.L. buddy.

Read my response to rick, i broke down the whole testing "formula".... unlike some people, he was super cool and didn't come off like a dbag. It's enjoyable having an intelligent conversation without the personal attacks.

oh, and there is no "knowledge" that I'm hiding... rick asked, i think i gave him a pretty detailed answer.... its called testing... LOL.... aren't you're supposed to be a copywriter?

shouldn't you already know this?

--- ANNNND.... back to reality ---

Rick, it totally depends man..... I've designed slick stuff thats done well, and some basic stuff, but i think from testing, yes it does have a huge impact....

if it didn't no company would spend money on designing anything.

i think the market has a HUGE say... but then you see stuff like ebens doubleyourdating, the guy did millions a year with it (still does) and he built it with BARE simple pages with super gangster copy.

(i'm 99% sure they didn't test layouts or design or even the copy but the copy is gangster - kudo's to craig cleamons and eben for writing it).

when i say design it could be the formatting of the copy.... headline etc.

btw... sometimes you don't need a ton of traffic... sometimes the winner happens right away.., you never really know.

For product launches, I'll do my own internal launch to my own list to get metrics before asking my jv's/affiliates to mail for me.... i think thats only fair, no?

I'd hate to be someones guinea pig.

why ask them to push something you won't even push yourself?

There's nothing worse than having all your jv's mail for you and they don't make money... i mean, its the fastest way to lose jvs.

(happened in one of my niche markets, his offer didn't convert at all... zero sales for me and several other jvs, now i'm very reluctant to mail for him.)

If you're hitting it outta the park, imagine what would happen when you test + good copy.... you probably could do even better.

Now the autoresponder sequence... i'm still workin on that one lol... THAT is difficult, getting them all to flow well and work... i have like 150+ emails in my front end....

--------

Hey Bruce... the point i had for quoting you was you were essentially saying the same thing i was... stop asking for critiques in here. (i'm coming at it from a different angle than you did). i think maybe i wasn't clear on that... my bad.

if ppl just stopped asking and started taking their ideas and just tested them, they'd never ask for another critique or post stuff in here.... they'd post better stuff and the forum would be rockin.

Btw.... yes that is a site I own... totally forgot about it. the site is from 2005-2006 From a 1 time teleseminar i did with fortin on designing for response. All the stuff we talked about was stuff that was tested and the program i know helped out a lot of people.

haven't done anything with any of that stuff since 2005-2006. I'm too busy with my niche businesses.

i still get ppl coming up to me at seminars 5 years later saying how much they learned from it.

I'll put that course up against *any* other course that teachs you how to design for response.... even though its from back in 2005-2006.


Seth - AMEN.... THANK YOU.... WOO HOO!

[Ashley Gable]

I think you are mistaking "critical" for "the only thing that matters".

You aren't going to find anyone on here who says testing isn't important. It is. But as Bruce Wedding said in the very first reply - if you split test junk against junk, what do you really find out?

Nothing. You just find out what headline sucks less.

If you cant write a good headline the first time then there is no reason that your second one will be any better. Unless you learn how to write headlines, in which case you are back at being a copywriter, learning to be a copywriter, or asking for critiques

[Ken_Caudill]

Testing is another IM shibboleth. There is no standard methodology. No standard sample size. In fact, no standards at all.

I sent one letter to half my list; another to the other half.

Yup, one of them is going to sell better than the other one.

You can bet on that.

[RickDuris]

Hi Dave,

What you say rings true. Thank you.

Yours is not my experience, but that's why I was reaching out and asking.

Thank you again,

- Rick Duris

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by davemiz

Mal, sounds like you're a little jealous... envious or...(the most likely) you've got a man crush on me... i can't quite put my finger on which one....

Sorry... I hate to tell you this... but I'm not into dudes.... so you're S.O.L. buddy.

Really moronic. I shake my head.

[Hopp]

Some of the best threads I have read on this forum have been critiques. Testing is vital, but one of the main functions of a forum is to learn from other peoples experiences and opinions.

[davemiz]

Speaking of moronic.... this coming from someone with nazi as their name.

If i was you, i'd worry about writing better copy, not worrying about me, how "insecure" I am, how i can't spell and how moronic i am...

just a bit of friendly advice pal.

And who on earth was the schmuck that told you the nazi thing was in good taste?

Is the nazi thing supposed to be clever?

it's either.

And you want people to take you serious?

C'mon man...

Some of us have lost family members by them. There's no better way to show a lack of respect for the holocaust and the millions people that were murdered.

but considering the source, it doesn't surprise me one bit.

Go work on that copy...

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by davemiz

Speaking of moronic.... this coming from someone with nazi as their name.

If i was you, i'd worry about writing better copy, not worrying about me, how "insecure" I am, how i can't spell and how moronic i am...

just a bit of friendly advice pal.

Is the nazi thing supposed to be clever?

it's not. Its pretty disgusting.

Some of us have lost family members by them. There's no better way to show a lack of respect for jews, the holocaust and the millions people that were murdered.

but considering the source and the personal attacks, it doesn't surprise me one bit.

Yeah - I'll tell that to Jerry Seinfeld (a Jew) next time I see him - "Jerry - you can't say Soup Nazi* - some people are humorless bastards and won't get it - let alone the contemporary meaning of "nazi" - "derogatory term for a person who is fanatically dedicated to, or seeks to control, some activity, practice, etc."

*
"The Soup Nazi" is the title of the 116th episode of the NBC sitcom Seinfeld, which was the 6th episode of the 7th season. It first aired in the United States on November 2, 1995.
The Soup Nazi is also the nickname of the titular character played by Larry Thomas. The term "Nazi" is used as an exaggeration of the excessively strict regimentation he constantly demands of his patrons.


On TV.com, users rated this the best episode of Seinfeld.


cheers Pal,


The Copy Nazi


"No copy for you!"

[Mike Baker]

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

I'd be surprised if anyone on this forum did not know what multi-variate testing is..

Well then you will be very surprised!

[Jag82]

Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi

Yeah - I'll tell that to Jerry Seinfeld (a Jew) next time I see him - "Jerry - you can't say Soup Nazi* - some people are humorless bastards and won't get it - let alone the contemporary meaning of "nazi" - "derogatory term for a person who is fanatically dedicated to, or seeks to control, some activity, practice, etc."

*
"The Soup Nazi" is the title of the 116th episode of the NBC sitcom Seinfeld, which was the 6th episode of the 7th season. It first aired in the United States on November 2, 1995.
The Soup Nazi is also the nickname of the titular character played by Larry Thomas. The term "Nazi" is used as an exaggeration of the excessively strict regimentation he constantly demands of his patrons.

Mal,

I understand your rationale behind your branding.

But most people will not know the reference.

The first impression they get is that of is Nazi Germany
and the horrors that come with it.

If you hadn't educated me on it, I would
have thought your nick was done in very bad taste.

It's just the natural perception of people.

And I will think that many of your prospects
might not have caught Seinfeld.

Your "Copy Nazi" branding will probably cast you in a
negative light and give you much unnecessary grief.

This issue is not for me to say though,
since it's your right to choose how you
want others to perceive you.

Just my $0.02

[Pusateri]

Originally Posted by Jag82

Mal,

I understand your rationale behind your branding.

But most people will not know the reference.

The first impression they get is that of is Nazi Germany
and the horrors that come with it.

If you hadn't educated me on it, I would
have thought your nick was done in very bad taste.

It's just the natural perception of people.

And I will think that many of your prospects
might not have caught Seinfeld.

Your "Copy Nazi" branding will probably cast you in a
negative light and give you much unnecessary grief.

This issue is not for me to say though,
since it's your right to choose how you
want others to perceive you.

Just my $0.02

On the contrary, it does exactly what branding is supposed to do. Those who get it and are attracted to it are the best matches for what Mal offers. Those who find it offensive don't belong in Mal World.

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by Jag82

This issue is not for me to say though,
since it's your right to choose how you
want others to perceive you.

Yep. Exactly right. So why bother even commenting?

BTW you say "most people will not know the reference". Where the hell they been then? Hiding under a rock? "Seinfeld" used to pull around 20 Million viewers an episode. "The Soup Nazi" being one of the stand-out favorites. The actor who plays SN was nominated for an Emmy.

The last episode of Seinfeld pulled 76 Million sets of eyeballs.

Finally -

A critical favorite, commercial blockbuster and cultural phenomenon, the show led the Nielsen ratings in its sixth and ninth seasons and finished among the top two (along with NBC's ER) every year from 1994 to 1998. In 2002, TV Guide named Seinfeld as the greatest television program of all time.

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by Pusateri

On the contrary, it does exactly what branding is supposed to do. Those who get it and are attracted to it are the best matches for what Mal offers. Those who find it offensive don't belong in Mal World.

Now there's a guy who gets it - in Spades. I tip my hat to you Sir.

[OnlineMasterMind]

Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi

Yeah - I'll tell that to Jerry Seinfeld (a Jew) next time I see him - "Jerry - you can't say Soup Nazi* - some people are humorless bastards and won't get it - let alone the contemporary meaning of "nazi" - "derogatory term for a person who is fanatically dedicated to, or seeks to control, some activity, practice, etc."

*
"The Soup Nazi" is the title of the 116th episode of the NBC sitcom Seinfeld, which was the 6th episode of the 7th season. It first aired in the United States on November 2, 1995.
The Soup Nazi is also the nickname of the titular character played by Larry Thomas. The term "Nazi" is used as an exaggeration of the excessively strict regimentation he constantly demands of his patrons.


On TV.com, users rated this the best episode of Seinfeld.


cheers Pal,


The Copy Nazi


"No copy for you!"

1. You have to keep defending, explaining and re-explaining the name. Do you think that should be protocol for a professional copywriter? lol

2. Seinfeld is a COMEDY show... and it was one character in one show - NOT the name of the show. Big difference.

If you used the term one time in an example or case study - like the show did - I don't think anyone would care.

3. The REALITY is that many people do find it offensive.

Not offensive, like using "no bs marketing" or a lot profanity or being highly abrasive... but offensive in a much more profound way.

Do I think these are your intentions? No. At least I would hope not. But to even consider making that your permanent name displays a lack of understanding, compassion and sensitivity on your part, to say the least.

[Ross James]

This thread is still going about the whole "copy nazi" thing. Who cares? It's a name and I don't know too many copywriters that are out to hurt anyone, I'm certain Mal isn't, last time I checked he was making every other guy rich, bastard.

[The Copy Nazi]

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

1. You have to keep defending, explaining and re-explaining the name. Do you think that should be protocol for a professional copywriter? lol

2. Seinfeld is a COMEDY show... and it was one character in one show - NOT the name of the show. Big difference.

If you used the term one time in an example or case study - like the show did - I don't think anyone would care.

3. The REALITY is that many people do find it offensive.

Not offensive, like using "no bs marketing" or a lot profanity or being highly abrasive... but offensive in a much more profound way.

Do I think these are your intentions? No. At least I would hope not. But to even consider making that your permanent name displays a lack of understanding, compassion and sensitivity on your part, to say the least.

1/ Protocol? WTF? LOL back at you. But I must admit it's getting a bit tiresome - there are a lot of thickheads out there. 2/ Huh? How I "use the term" as you put it, has nothing to do with you or anyone else. I'll use it/appropriate as I see fit. I don't need yours or anyone elses permission to borrow and mash a name from popular culture. Go watch some "Family Guy" or "Simpsons" or dozens of other shows and you'll see it happening all the time. 3/ The REALITY is that people find lots of things offensive. I find your post offensive if it comes to that. I could care less if some dunderheads are offended. Could care less. They're not the kind of people I want in my sand-pit anyway. Neither are you if it comes to that.

"a lack of understanding, compassion and sensitivity on your part" yeah yeah yeah. Terrible hooman bean aren't I. How dare I have a bit of fun with I.M. and using that dreadful four letter word. So shocking. What was I thinking?

In short Dude - it-is-none-of-your-business Mister "OnlineMasterMind" - which incidentally I find very offensive. How dare you call yourself that when you're obviously not a mastermind. That's false advertising right there.

The Copy Nazi walks off mumbling under his breath..."God...some people...haven't they got anything better to do?...but no...they gotta drop their inane comments all over the place...I dunno...why do I bother..."do you think that should be protocol for a professional copywriter," he says - as if it's any of his damned business..."OnlineMasterMind" - now there's a name for you...probably some 12 year old twerp LOL

Update: oh I see you're trying to tell Frank Kern how to run his business too - Frank Kern - Scarcity Gone Too Far?

LOL aren't you a MasterMind. That offer sold out [snaps fingers] - like that. But there you are telling him how he's going about it all wrong.

[OnlineMasterMind]

Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi

1/ Protocol? WTF? LOL back at you. But I must admit it's getting a bit tiresome - there are a lot of thickheads out there. 2/ Huh? How I "use the term" as you put it, has nothing to do with you or anyone else. I'll use it/appropriate as I see fit. I don't need yours or anyone elses permission to borrow and mash a name from popular culture. Go watch some "Family Guy" or "Simpsons" or dozens of other shows and you'll see it happening all the time. 3/ The REALITY is that people find lots of things offensive. I find your post offensive if it comes to that. I could care less if some dunderheads are offended. Could care less. They're not the kind of people I want in my sand-pit anyway. Neither are you if it comes to that.

"a lack of understanding, compassion and sensitivity on your part" yeah yeah yeah. Terrible hooman bean aren't I. How dare I have a bit of fun with I.M. and using that dreadful four letter word. So shocking. What was I thinking?

In short Dude - it-is-none-of-your-business Mister "OnlineMasterMind" - which incidentally I find very offensive. How dare you call yourself that when you're obviously not a mastermind. That's false advertising right there.

The Copy Nazi walks off mumbling under his breath..."God...some people...haven't they got anything better to do?...but no...they gotta drop their inane comments all over the place...I dunno...why do I bother..."do you think that should be protocol for a professional copywriter," he says - as if it's any of his damned business..."OnlineMasterMind" - now there's a name for you...probably some 12 year old twerp LOL

Update: oh I see you're trying to tell Frank Kern how to run his business too - Frank Kern - Scarcity Gone Too Far?

LOL aren't you a MasterMind. That offer sold out [snaps fingers] - like that. But there you are telling him how he's going about it all wrong.

You seem to be very good at grasping at irrelevant things to somehow.... umm?... score points?

Uh ok...

I guess that's suppose to weaken my credibility?

Quite frankly, I'm flattered that you took the time to do so much research considering that post was from a year and a half ago.

You must be a very busy copywriter to spend your time in that way...

However, instead of resorting to your same tactics I'll focus on the comments you made as it relates to my post.

Yes, my usename is awful. And what?

Yes, I'm young. And what?

You're right though... you can do whatever the hell you want... including associating yourself with the word nazi.

[Pusateri]

Is anybody truly offended by the Copy Nazi label? How can we know unless we test?

Here's the test for those who claim offense: when you read it the first time, did it really disturb that old reptilian brain? Did it spark a tiny flame of violence in your soul?

No? Then you weren't really offended. You just thought you should be. That's not a jab. We all do it at times.

Offend is the opposite of defend. It means to strike at. There are some offending posts in this thread, but the name Copy Nazi was never meant to strike at anyone.

"I know it's meant to be funny, but it's insensitive to the historical blah blah blah..."

What about the friggin' Romans? They subjugated Judea, pulled down the second temple, kicked the Diaspora into high gear AND they killed Jeezus! Does anybody get worked up over Little Caesar's Pizza or toga parties?

Copy Nazi just plain works brandingwise. The fact that it elicits strong responses, possitive and negative, is proof.

I'm not so sure about these, but I guess they need to be tested.

Hideki Watanabe - The Rising Sun of Copywriting

Genghis Khopy Khan

Killer Kopy Klan

Copyligula

Osama Bin Writtin'

The Joseph 'Bullet Point' Stalin Copywriting Pogram

[Ken_Caudill]

I'm thinking about branding myself as the Copy Jew.

Oy.

[The Copy Nazi]

@ Ken

The Copy Jew
"why pay retail?"

[l23bc]

Originally Posted by Pusateri

Is anybody truly offended by the Copy Nazi

Osama Bin Writtin'-----Like it!!

Thanks for the comment i could not stop smiling at that and to be honest i might use that as a domain name lol! unless i get a cease and desist by fbi and osama himself

[Adam Roy]

Hmm... The 'copy nazi', quite catchy isn't it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_(god) <<<<

Benford's law of controversy, as expressed by science-fiction author Gregory Benford in 1980, states: Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real (true) information available.[1][2] In other words, the fewer facts are known to and agreed on by the participants, the more controversy there is, and the more is known the less controversy there is

[OnlineMasterMind]

Originally Posted by Pusateri

Copy Nazi just plain works brandingwise. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/CENTER]

Surely there should be a swastika in the new logo, right?

[Adam Roy]

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

Surely there should be a swastika in the new logo, right?

Are you kidding? Must you and your comments be so judgmental and nasty?

The word swastika came from the Sanskrit word svastika, meaning any lucky or auspicious object, and in particular a mark made on persons and things to denote good luck. It is composed of su- meaning "good, well" and asti "to be" svasti thus means "well-being." The suffix -ka either forms a diminutive or intensifies the verbal meaning, and svastika might thus be translated literally as "that which is associated with well-being," corresponding to "lucky charm" or "thing that is auspicious."[1] The word in this sense is first used in the Harivamsa.[2] As noted by Monier-Williams in his Sanskrit-English dictionary, according to Alexander Cunningham, its shape represents a monogram formed by interlacing of the letters of the auspicious words su-astí (svasti) written in Ashokan characters.[3]

Good luck to you. May the Nazi god bless you with a lucky swastika and increase your search engine rankings.

[Pusateri]

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

Surely there should be a swastika in the new logo, right?

You know the answer to that.

Look, railing against it as bad branding only proves the contrary.

The primary response bad branding engenders is no response at all.