Do "Long Form" Sales Letters work for Physical products ??

[Jay Vikaz]

I know in the IM Niche, Long Form sales letters are very commonplace.

But, do they work for Physical Products?

Has anyone tried using them to sell a Physical Product?

[Rich Lowe]

Hi Jay,

I tried it and it did work. I included a pic of the product in the top right corner of the screen and wrapped the text round it. I tried to model my layout on successful newspaper ads. I used Verdana in the body text and Georgia for the headline.

I don't think it matters what you do as long as you clearly tell them what it will do for them, the benefits and you full fill your searchers intent.

Rich

[Pusateri]

Long copy was used to sell physical goods long before there were non-physical goods. It's worked for generations. It worked for J. Peterman and it worked for Banana Republic back when they were interesting. Check out some of their catalogs from the eighties.

Think of long copy as an infomercial for your product.

[StephanieMojica]

Long sales pages, especially with killer testimonials, will always help if they're well-written. Focus on the benefits to the client rather than the features or your credentials; people buy for a real or perceived benefit.

Good luck!

Stephanie

[Scott Murdaugh]

I'd do this a little differently these days, it's an ad I wrote awhile ago...

Piano Sale

But it worked

-Scott

[Raydal]

When I'm shopping online for a physical product I would go
to several sites to find reviews, testimonials and specs on
the product. If I had all that information in one place it
would make my buying decision so much easier and I think
it would for a lot of people too.

In essence that's all a long form sales letter is: you are
giving the prospect all the information in the same place.

At least that's the way I view it.

-Ray Edwards

[Ken_Caudill]

Long form sales letters work remarkably well with physical products. Think Blu-Blockers, Ronco.

[Jay Vikaz]

That is a nice sales letter. Thanks for sharing. It certainly helps to actually see a live example.... especially since most of us are more familiar with the digital product sales letters.

Just curious, I don't see a BUY button and the Call To Action seems to be to encourage them to call in.... So in this case were the transactions actually completed over the phone?

Originally Posted by Scott Murdaugh

I'd do this a little differently these days, it's an ad I wrote awhile ago...

Piano Sale

But it worked

-Scott

[Jay Vikaz]

That is a great point - Think of Long Copy as an Informercial.

Thanks for sharing the Banana Republic Catalogs from the Eighties. Very Interesting. Gives me a totally new perspective.

I'd recommend it as a great read to anyone interested in writing long copy to sell physical products.

- Jay

Originally Posted by Pusateri

Long copy was used to sell physical goods long before there were non-physical goods. It's worked for generations. It worked for J. Peterman and it worked for Banana Republic back when they were interesting. Check out some of their catalogs from the eighties.

Think of long copy as an infomercial for your product.

[Jay Vikaz]

That is exactly what I was thinking about - Give the prospect all information in one place.

I just didn't know if it worked.... but seeing the excellent feedback on this thread it certainly seems like a powerful way to sell.

Originally Posted by Raydal

When I'm shopping online for a physical product I would go
to several sites to find reviews, testimonials and specs on
the product. If I had all that information in one place it
would make my buying decision so much easier and I think
it would for a lot of people too.

In essence that's all a long form sales letter is: you are
giving the prospect all the information in the same place.

At least that's the way I view it.

-Ray Edwards

[Jay Vikaz]

Rich,

That is certainly an interesting idea - newspaper ad layout.

Was this online or a printed catalog?

- Jay

Originally Posted by Rich Lowe

Hi Jay,

I tried it and it did work. I included a pic of the product in the top right corner of the screen and wrapped the text round it. I tried to model my layout on successful newspaper ads. I used Verdana in the body text and Georgia for the headline.

I don't think it matters what you do as long as you clearly tell them what it will do for them, the benefits and you full fill your searchers intent.

Rich

[ForeignProfessor]

I read that and I think I wanta buy an electronic piano now.. not that I can play one, but I'll get lessons for my daughter

I'm kinda curious though: Did that take a long time, and if so did you spend a long time proof reading it? I noticed some grammatical errors. I don't know much about copywriting (yet), but are grammatical errors generally considered a minor concern because most people don't notice them? Or should you have it 'right', grammatically, before an ad goes live?

I'm guessing 99% of readers don't notice things like this so it's not important. Am I right?


(Please note: This is not a 'Grammar Nazi' post. I'm sure I've made mistakes in this post. I'm just genuinely curious as to whether it's a concern or not even important in terms of conversions in the copywriting field.)

[Scott Murdaugh]

Did that take a long time, and if so did you spend a long time proof reading it?

That letter was rushed/half baked.

It didn't take me long because I knew the product well... It was to help my Dad out with an Ebay/Direct Mail campaign.

I didn't spend hardly any time proofing it, it was kind of a "stick this up and see if it works" thing.

A paid client letter would have a LOT more polishing, editing and rewriting. Looking at it now I used too long of sentences and paragraphs to start it out. I should have broken up the text a little more, but it did the job.

IMHO copy doesn't have to be grammatically perfect. Too many mistakes, or obvious mistakes are bad, but sometimes to keep it flowing correctly you'll break some "conventional" writing rules.

So in this case were the transactions actually completed over the phone?

Yeah, to setup shipping and answer questions. On Ebay they could still bid, not sure what happened when they took it offline, but I'd imagine the main call to action would be to get them on the phone/in the store with a sales guy.

-Scott

[briancassingena]

If you are finding that your prospects are not reading long copy, this could mean you are going after the wrong market. If they're interested, they'll read.

I used to sell an eBay marketing package with a 32 page sales letter. I took that many pages to tell the whole sales story. Advertising mostly offline, it used to convert at around 10% at $697.

[Jay Vikaz]

Now that is an interesting statistic.

A 32 page sales letter converting at 10% at the $697 price point. Wow!

If someone had just shown me a letter that long and the price point, I never would have guessed this conversion rate.

I guess you had the right mix of interested prospects and engaging copy to pull it off.

Originally Posted by briancassingena

If you are finding that your prospects are not reading long copy, this could mean you are going after the wrong market. If they're interested, they'll read.

I used to sell an eBay marketing package with a 32 page sales letter. I took that many pages to tell the whole sales story. Advertising mostly offline, it used to convert at around 10% at $697.

[FuNwiThChRiS]

Long copy SUCKS and will hurt your sales big-time UNLESS...

...you know how to write well >>> AND <<< have information so compelling, the prospect will read on even if his wife/girlfriend is yelling at him to get off the damn computer (seriously).

It's simple: Avoid long copy whenever possible unless you have an incredibly targeted (engaged) audience that needs an incredibly specific product/service.

Remember, every second that your customer spends reading your boring and "salesy" copy, they lose interest and want to leave.

For retail and ecommerce physical goods - KEEP IT SHORT.

If people want to read/learn more, than you've got them right where you want them. It's a lot easier to talk a customer out of a sale, than it is into buying.

For get rich quick scams you've got to use long copy to talk the idiots into buying the crap. Long copy has its place, but the answer to your question is negatory.

[Jay Vikaz]

It is nice to see another point of view on this thread.... and with a sense of humor too

But, seriously your logic makes total sense.

What I'm taking away from all this is - it is important to have a highly targeted / engaged audience.

I've mostly seen the "Keep It Short" principle applied for Physical products. But, it is interesting to see how the long form has worked in many cases as illustrated by the other posts in this thread.

The key factor in their success probably was the type of traffic seeing the sales page.

Originally Posted by FuNwiThChRiS

Long copy SUCKS and will hurt your sales big-time UNLESS...

...you know how to write well >>> AND <<< have information so compelling, the prospect will read on even if his wife/girlfriend is yelling at him to get off the damn computer (seriously).

It's simple: Avoid long copy whenever possible unless you have an incredibly targeted (engaged) audience that needs an incredibly specific product/service.

Remember, every second that your customer spends reading your boring and "salesy" copy, they lose interest and want to leave.

For retail and ecommerce physical goods - KEEP IT SHORT.

If people want to read/learn more, than you've got them right where you want them. It's a lot easier to talk a customer out of a sale, than it is into buying.

For get rich quick scams you've got to use long copy to talk the idiots into buying the crap. Long copy has its place, but the answer to your question is negatory.

[Hugh Thyer]

I guess it just shows that people will see what they're looking for Jay.

You came here looking for advice on long or short sales copy.

Big time established writers spoke about how much better long copy works.

You yourself know that long copy has worked for years and years, and continues to outpull short copy. Big (mega rich) guys like Clayton Makepeace, John Carlton, Gary Bencivenga and Dan Kennedy have proven it time and time again.

But one person says don't do it, and you agree with THEM.

Anyway, I have always thought that a lot of people come to forums like this to confirm their preconceived ideas, not with an open mind.

And you've proven me right again.

[FuNwiThChRiS]

Hugh I think "hugh missed" the point ...lol

Did you even read the response? We said long copy is great in the right situation! eCommerce and retail sales of physical products are, in general, the worst case scenario for the use of long sales copy.

Last time I checked, the largest physical retailers in the world (wal-mart, best buy, amazon, etc) DO NOT use long copy to sell...it is actually laughable to consider if you are in this business. Ever bought clothes online? Ever bought dvds? Ever bought a George Foreman grill? Get the point?

The fact that you refer to copywriters as "megarich guys" shows that you are spending wayyy too much time reading and buying into hype, and not nearly enough working for actual retailers and gaining industry experience.

just my $0.02 ...been at it for years.

[Pusateri]

Originally Posted by FuNwiThChRiS

For retail and ecommerce physical goods - KEEP IT SHORT.

Coming from the world of retail and physical goods I can tell you that is not the most profitable route.

Look at books: anything printed on the jacket back and flaps is copy written to sell the book. Is it long or short?

Look at the packaging for electronics, toys, detergents, motor oil. You will find two groups: Short copy on low margin generic bargain items sold on price and long copy on high margin, specialty brands with strong USPs that develop rabid followings.

What you say MIGHT apply to commodity goods...those items that are the same everywhere and can be bought from a thousand different vendors.

Even then, if you really understand selling, you can bundle that commodity item with bonuses and accesories to create a package not available anywhere else, while at the same time presenting the product in a novel and compelling way. You will beat the other 999 guys all day long. Of course, you will have to use long copy.

Originally Posted by FuNwiThChRiS

It's a lot easier to talk a customer out of a sale, than it is into buying.

For the average person, maybe. But for people who understand selling, that sentence doesn't accurately map reality.

[Jay Vikaz]

Hugh,

Maybe I did not express myself clearly.

I meant to say, I can see the logic in that point of view. Just agreeing with that point of view does not mean I disagree with the others.

I have received great advice (and encouragement) on using the long form for physical products .... and I'm definitely going to try it out.

My knowledge of long copy is limited to the digital (IM) world, where I know it out performs short copy.

But, my exposure to it for physical products is limited. That is the reason for this thread - to learn more and hopefully apply it to a few upcoming projects.

I must admit, when I first started the thread, I thought most people would tell me that it wouldn't work. I was pleasantly surprised to know other folks have tried it out and it works great for them.

The live examples really were helpful in visualizing how to go about doing it.

My biggest takeaway from the discussion so far is that Long Form does work for physical products... but the key to making it convert well is getting targeted / engaged audience.

For example - if I send a traffic of Baseball fans to the Piano Sales letter mentioned in this thread, my conversion will most likely be lower compared to a traffic of Piano students.

...that is my takeaway.... and I'll be happy if anyone can add to that.

I agree with you that a lot of people do come to forums just to confirm their preconceived notions.

But, that is not my intention here. I'm here to get divergent viewpoints and opinions. I'd like to draw from the experience of different people and not necessarily dismiss a dissenting viewpoint.

The idea of having an open mind in such discussions is to be willing to listen to ALL points of view... and draw the best ideas.

Ultimately, though it all boils down to implementation and testing.

Originally Posted by Hugh Thyer

I guess it just shows that people will see what they're looking for Jay.

You came here looking for advice on long or short sales copy.

Big time established writers spoke about how much better long copy works.

You yourself know that long copy has worked for years and years, and continues to outpull short copy. Big (mega rich) guys like Clayton Makepeace, John Carlton, Gary Bencivenga and Dan Kennedy have proven it time and time again.

But one person says don't do it, and you agree with THEM.

Anyway, I have always thought that a lot of people come to forums like this to confirm their preconceived ideas, not with an open mind.

And you've proven me right again.

[Jay Vikaz]

Another excellent point that never occurred to me....

Low Margin Products Vs. High Margin Products

Thank You!

Folks! Keep the pearls of wisdom coming. This is Awesome!

Originally Posted by Pusateri

Coming from the world of retail and physical goods I can tell you that is not the most profitable route.

Look at books: anything printed on the jacket back and flaps is copy written to sell the book. Is it long or short?

Look at the packaging for electronics, toys, detergents, motor oil. You will find two groups: Short copy on low margin generic bargain items sold on price and long copy on high margin, specialty brands with strong USPs that develop rabid followings.

What you say MIGHT apply to commodity goods...those items that are the same everywhere and can be bought from a thousand different vendors.

Even then, if you really understand selling, you can bundle that commodity item with bonuses and accesories to create a package not available anywhere else, while at the same time presenting the product in a novel and compelling way. You will beat the other 999 guys all day long. Of course, you will have to use long copy.



For the average person, maybe. But for people who understand selling, that sentence doesn't accurately map reality.

[FuNwiThChRiS]

Originally Posted by Pusateri

Coming from the world of retail and physical goods I can tell you that is not the most profitable route.

Look at books: anything printed on the jacket back and flaps is copy written to sell the book. Is it long or short?

Look at the packaging for electronics, toys, detergents, motor oil. You will find two groups: Short copy on low margin generic bargain items sold on price and long copy on high margin, specialty brands with strong USPs that develop rabid followings.

What you say MIGHT apply to commodity goods...those items that are the same everywhere and can be bought from a thousand different vendors.

Even then, if you really understand selling, you can bundle that commodity item with bonuses and accesories to create a package not available anywhere else, while at the same time presenting the product in a novel and compelling way. You will beat the other 999 guys all day long. Of course, you will have to use long copy.



For the average person, maybe. But for people who understand selling, that sentence doesn't accurately map reality.

It sounds like I'm STILL right based on your response - it STILL all depends on the target audience and product which ultimately determines the level of engagement.

Even with a so-called "specialty product" you are incorrect 90% of the time. Once again, refer to wal-mart and every major retailer (see examples below)...none of them use long copy for physical products.

ALWAYS default to high-end product displays and short descrips for retail (assuming we're talking about eCommerce). Anything other than that, and your head will be on the chopping block. If you think long copy leads to high-converting retail landing pages for consumer products, you have never worked a day with big business marketing teams. You would literally get laughed at.

FREE TIP: Retailers DO NOT WANT to bundle products or services because it reduces profit margins on both list items AND shipping rates. Don't ever bring that up in a meeting unless you want to NOT get hired (obviously there are exceptions).

Example Copy for Top Book Retailer:
The Cypress House, Michael Koryta, (9780316053723) Hardcover - Barnes & Noble

Example Copy for Top Electronics Retailer:
Walmart.com: Electronics: TV & Video

Example Copy for Top Clothing Retailer:
Calvin Klein Dress, Sleeveless Ruffled Trim - Dresses - Women's - Macy's

I should write a WSO and "get rich quick" for giving away all of this free advice!

[briancassingena]

Originally Posted by Jay Vikaz

Now that is an interesting statistic.

A 32 page sales letter converting at 10% at the $697 price point. Wow!

If someone had just shown me a letter that long and the price point, I never would have guessed this conversion rate.

I guess you had the right mix of interested prospects and engaging copy to pull it off.

Yes mate, to get response rates like that you must have the right market, and the right message to market match. Of course it was based on eBay's digital delivery system so once that was gone I moved onto other things.

A a rule of thumb, the higher your price point, the more you need to say to sell it. Gary Halbert used to sell his coat of arms deal with a one page letter, but that was a fairly low price point.

My price point came after testing various prices, starting around $100, until response started to drop off over $597. The market told me how much my package was worth, and I listened.

[Headfirst]

Originally Posted by Jay Vikaz

I know in the IM Niche, Long Form sales letters are very commonplace.

But, do they work for Physical Products?

Has anyone tried using them to sell a Physical Product?

Go get the AdWeek Copywriting Handbook by Joe Sugarman. It contains countless examples of how to sell physical products with long form copy.

The book contains actual control pieces that have been used to sell exercise equipment, calculators, houses, air planes and countless other great examples.

BTW - If anyone has an extra copy, I loaned mine to an aspiring copywriter about a year ago and never got it back. It's a book that is sorely missed. If you have an extra, PM me and I'll buy it off of you.

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by Pusateri

Look at the packaging for electronics, toys, detergents, motor oil. You will find two groups: Short copy on low margin generic bargain items sold on price and long copy on high margin, specialty brands with strong USPs that develop rabid followings.

Exactly. Companies aren't going to spend big bucks on a copywriter to write copy for a small margin product or service.

Dan Kennedy says it best: "There is no such thing as too much copy. Only too boring."

Use as much copy as you need to for ethically making the sale and not one paragraph more.

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by FuNwiThChRiS

I should write a WSO and "get rich quick" for giving away all of this free advice!

I wouldn't recommend it. Based on the high volume of bad advice you regularly give out on this board, you'd probably get refund rates of 60% or higher on your WSO.

[Pusateri]

Originally Posted by FuNwiThChRiS

It sounds like I'm STILL right based on your response - it STILL all depends on the target audience and product which ultimately determines the level of engagement.

No argument there. You build the trap for the critter you're trying to catch.

Even with a so-called "specialty product" you are incorrect 90% of the time. Once again, refer to wal-mart and every major retailer (see examples below)...none of them use long copy for physical products.

Major retailers are functionally venues, designed to put goods in front of potential buyers. Browse Engines. Just about everything they sell has copy ON IT, provided by the manufacturer/marketer, written to sell the item. Strip the copy off the box and see how many sell.

ALWAYS default to high-end product displays and short descrips for retail (assuming we're talking about eCommerce). Anything other than that, and your head will be on the chopping block. If you think long copy leads to high-converting retail landing pages for consumer products, you have never worked a day with big business marketing teams. You would literally get laughed at.

Long copy does indeed lead to high converting landing pages. I prove it every day. I sell hundred dollar niche history books. Nobody needs them. I make people want them. With long copy.

Ten years ago I proved it with nutritional supplements. I was selling my own private label versions of things people could get elsewhere for $10. My price was $30. Long copy sold it all day long.

FREE TIP: Retailers DO NOT WANT to bundle products or services because it reduces profit margins on both list items AND shipping rates. Don't ever bring that up in a meeting unless you want to NOT get hired (obviously there are exceptions).

That's their problem. When they're ready to make some money, tell 'em to give me a call. (BTW, I meant bundle AND charge more. Think VAR.)

Example Copy for Top Book Retailer:
The Cypress House, Michael Koryta, (9780316053723) Hardcover - Barnes & Noble

There's 500 words of copy on that page, plus another 1200 words worth of reviews.

Example Copy for Top Electronics Retailer:
Walmart.com: Electronics: TV & Video

That's a catalog page, so I clicked on Samsung 40" LED-LCD 1080p HDTV With Samsung Internet Connected Blu-ray Player & WiFi USB Adapter. TV Bundle. 558 words of copy. Not really long but certainly not short.

Example Copy for Top Clothing Retailer:
Calvin Klein Dress, Sleeveless Ruffled Trim - Dresses - Women's - Macy's

This is one of those rare categories where the picture does the selling. So we'll just call it 1000 words.

I should write a WSO and "get rich quick" for giving away all of this free advice!

Give it a shot. Let's see if you can sell it.

[FuNwiThChRiS]

I appreciate your enthusiasm but you are simply "unaware" of how marketing works on the big business eCommerce level.

The B&N book link I provided has literally ZERO copy (above the fold). "Lots of words" do not equal copy. A book synopsis is NOT copy. An author biography is NOT copy. Sure it may help sell the book, but like a customer review on amazon.com - it is NOT copywriting in the traditional sense. In fact, if it's not above the fold - it has nothing to do with sales as far as most retailers are concerned. That's the truth.

As far as product bundling - you have no idea what you are talking about. It's not like you are the first person to suggest this. When you are selling tens of thousands of products, every nickel in profit margin equals big bucks. Selling "more bundles" at lower profit margins costs you massive revenue and kills your business. If you sell 50,000 hand towels and lose $0.10 in margin per unit - you just lost $5,000 (and that's a best-case type scenario). Now multiply that on the international scale and you are out hundreds of millions of dollars - FOR ONE PRODUCT.

Good job on your private label product long copy success, I use long copy for that type of stuff all of the time, it works. But when it comes to retailers/eCommerce copywriting ...long copy will get you killed. Keep it short or look for a new job.

It's a numbers game with physical retail and your PPC campaigns alone would get you slaughtered.

Good luck and keep learning ...we all must!

[Collette]

Originally Posted by Jay Vikaz

I know in the IM Niche, Long Form sales letters are very commonplace.

But, do they work for Physical Products?

Has anyone tried using them to sell a Physical Product?

It depends: "a physical product" is very vague. You could be talking about an impulse purchase of $5 shoelaces, or a more considered purchase of a $5K greenhouse. And you didn't specify whether you're talking about selling online or off.

Which means much of the feedback you'll receive is speculation.

Of course you can successfully sell physical products using long copy. Companies have been doing it for years. But whether you need long or short copy depends on the product, the prospect, and the medium.

Whether to use long, or short, really depends mostly on how much information your prospect wants - and needs - to know in order to make a purchase.

Offline, long copy is used all the time to sell physical products. Online, where attention spans tend to be shorter and readers lean towards skimming, long copy is often broken up into 'bites' that the prospect can opt to read - or not.

An example of a company that uses both long and short copy to sell: the Amish Heater by Heat Surge. Offline, they use full page ads; online, the copy is short, and bulleted.

(You could make an assumption - because Heat Surge advertises so heavily offline - that many of their online visitors already come to the site with a baseline of product knowledge in place. And therefore don't need additional copy to push them to purchase.)

Another company that does long-offline/short-online is The Skier's Edge. They place full-page ads that offer the reader the choice of ordering from by mail, phone, or web site. And, on the web site, their copy is significantly shorter than their print copy.

Another example is Steinway pianos: People buy a Steinway either for (a) serious piano playing, when quality matters, or (b) as a status piece of furniture. So Steinway gets both pianists and status-seekers with short intro copy, and the option to click on for more detailed information. The really serious information-seekers even have the option of requesting Steinway send them (presumably) a full-on brochure on their pianos.

And although it is customary online to go short-to-long, you'll find examples that work with long copy landing pages. Gary Bencivenga's Kubota Ham copy (2007) is a fairly recent example of long copy that successfully sells the hell out of a ham. Even a die-hard vegetarian would want one of these expensive haunches after reading that copy.

Additionally, you have to consider how the online world is changing. If you're marketing using SMS or any other promotion going to mobile devices, you are NOT going to be using long copy in your ad. But you could still use the ad to push buyers of physical products to a long copy informational-style landing page.

As a very general rule of thumb, the more technical the requirements of the purchaser, and the more expensive the purchase, the longer the retail copy needs to be. How it's presented, though, will vary depending on the medium you use.

[Jay Vikaz]

Thanks for the detailed feedback. Your post has some very valuable insights.

Just to clarify - I'm talking about selling physical products online... not offline.

Originally Posted by Collette

It depends: "a physical product" is very vague. You could be talking about an impulse purchase of $5 shoelaces, or a more considered purchase of a $5K greenhouse. And you didn't specify whether you're talking about selling online or off.

[Ken_Caudill]

Originally Posted by Hugh Thyer

Clayton Makepeace, John Carlton, Gary Bencivenga and Dan Kennedy

The Four Horsemen of the Marketing Apocalypse.

I hold those four personally responsible for the millions of horrid sales sites that imitate their style.

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

The Four Horsemen of the Marketing Apocalypse.

I hold those four personally responsible for the millions of horrid sales sites that imitate their style.

Come on Ken.

There were business owners and marketers churning out bad copy long before Carlton, Makepeace, Bencivenga, or Dan Kennedy ever taught a thing about marketing or copywriting.

I'd venture a guess that most of the bad copy sites you are referring to, never studied any of those copywriting gurus. If they had, then the likelihood that they would continue to write so badly would have dropped dramatically.

[BrianMcLeod]

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

The Four Horsemen of the Marketing Apocalypse.

I hold those four personally responsible for the millions of horrid sales sites that imitate their style.

Ken's here all week, folks.

Be sure to try the veal...

[Michael Newman]

Originally Posted by Raydal

When I'm shopping online for a physical product I would go
to several sites to find reviews, testimonials and specs on
the product. If I had all that information in one place it
would make my buying decision so much easier and I think
it would for a lot of people too.

In essence that's all a long form sales letter is: you are
giving the prospect all the information in the same place.

At least that's the way I view it.

-Ray Edwards

Sir Edwards,

You picked my thoughts: ''ALL THE INFORMATION IN THE SAME PLACE.'' It makes a lotta sense.

Thanks,

Michael

[Collette]

Originally Posted by BrianMcLeod

Ken's here all week, folks.

Be sure to try the veal...

ba-DUM-bum-KUsssssssssh!!