Which Would You Rather Be: An In-House Copywriter Or A Freelance Copywriter?

[Danielle Lynn]

I was pondering whether I'd enjoy working more as an in-house copywriter or a freelance copywriter, and I made this list. I'm still a bit on the fence.

The First Question: Supposing you could choose, which one would you rather be... and why?

Updated Question: Hypothetically: Would you take the opportunity to work as an in-house copywriter for the experience for 6 months supposing that during those 6 months you wouldn't be able to do any major freelance projects on the side? Afterwards you can venture forth and do as you wish, freelance, business, what-not.

In-House Copywriter (For A Company)

Pros:

• Steady pay
• Work with a team of marketers and designers
• Focus only on your writing craft
• Beautiful portfolio pieces
• Gain in-house experience
• Health Benefits
• Set hours

Cons:

• Drive in to work
• Pay rate is 'set'
• Co-workers might smell funny
• You're working for someone else
• It's not okay to post on WF while at work

Freelance Copywriter

Pros:

• Earning potential is wherever you set it
• Set your own hours
• Choose your clients/projects
• You're your own boss
• Gain 'sole-proprietor' experience
• Can work from anywhere you like
• It's okay to post on WF while at work

Cons:

• You have to manage every aspect of your business
• No 'steady pay'
• No company health benefits
• Can end up working odd, long hours

(feel free to add more to this list)

[Shawn Lee]

I'm currently a part-time in-house copywriter. I chose to work because:

1. I receive training from the company I work for
2. I don't have the time to look for clients (I'm away from Monday - Friday)
3. I can interact with other internet marketers (and also learn a lot other than copy writing)

However, I see these 2 years that I'll be working as an investment. Although pay is low, at least I get work sent to me consistently.

I guess it's all up to the individual. If he/she is satisfied working as an in-house copywriter, then it's okay. But for me, I plan to do freelance copy writing after my "training phase".

[Ross James]

Here is the biggest distinction between the two:

In-house positions you

Freelance you position yourself


If I were a copywriter I would want to create my own positioning.

Best,

Ross

[Loren Woirhaye]

Do you want to be an employee or an entrepreneur?

Each is habit-forming. Each comes with pros and cons. The
longer you spend on one track, the tougher it is to accept
the penalties of switching to the other.

If you're childless, I recommend you remain that way until
you've figured out which path you want to tread.

[Danielle Lynn]

Thanks for your input guys

@Shawn - Good point, I like the concept of being an in-house copywriter as a training period.

@Ross - Yes, positioning is very important in copywriting. I love being an entrepreneur and all the goodies that come with it. Even the late nights. Still, as Shawn put it, the appeal of working in a large company and soaking in that experience sounds tempting...

@Loren ... as long as one doesn't become too complacent, as Loren pointed out. Humans are habit-forming creatures. And I can say that long term.... being a freelancer sounds much more appealing


So maybe a re-frame for the next level of questioning - Would any of you choose to do a short-term stint like Shawn? Or are you firm in keeping a hand on your own positioning like Ross?

[ARSuarez]

Originally Posted by DanielleLynnCopy

Thanks for your input guys

@Shawn - Good point, I like the concept of being an in-house copywriter as a training period.

@Ross - Yes, positioning is very important in copywriting. I love being an entrepreneur and all the goodies that come with it. Even the late nights. Still, as Shawn put it, the appeal of working in a large company and soaking in that experience sounds tempting...

@Loren ... as long as one doesn't become too complacent, as Loren pointed out. Humans are habit-forming creatures. And I can say that long term.... being a freelancer sounds much more appealing


So maybe a re-frame for the next level of questioning - Would any of you choose to do a short-term stint like Shawn? Or are you firm in keeping a hand on your own positioning like Ross?

Everyone has a learning period. Many have had their learning working in their own businesses - that was their training stint.

Many more had a position writing for mailing houses.

Some of the biggest names, like Jim Rutz, Arthur Johnson, Gary Bencivenga, Kent Komae, etc, all got their training started working for others. If you've heard of Jon McCullough, I believe he got his start this way, too.

My education was 2-part. I owned a carpet cleaning business and then went to work for a publishing company, handling projects for them. I still work this company, too.

Best,

Angel

[Danielle Lynn]

Originally Posted by ARSuarez

Everyone has a learning period. Many have had their learning working in their own businesses - that was their training stint.

Many more had a position writing for mailing houses.

Some of the biggest names, like Jim Rutz, Arthur Johnson, Gary Bencivenga, Kent Komae, etc, all got their training started working for others. If you've heard of Jon McCullough, I believe he got his start this way, too.

My education was 2-part. I owned a carpet cleaning business and then went to work for a publishing company, handling projects for them. I still work this company, too.

Best,

Angel

I know what you mean, I worked in an office, in retail, in education, and several other places - and I took a little something from each situation.

Being adaptable and being able to take away something from every experience is essential for careers and for life.

Good stuff Angel

[Affiguy]

I believe here it depends on a person. If you work for someone you are secure with regular pay, there is no fuss about finding new clients and sure you can learn a lot from your colleagues.

When you would like to work on your own, you should rely only on yourself. And in this case, your consistent efforts can be very rewarding. Here all is up to you and your skills, your ability to negotiate with people and make them agree to your price.

Best luck to you, DanielleLynnCopy, whichever way you choose!

[arfasaira]

Freelance has perks that a steady job doesn't, and yes, it may not be steady work and it doesnt pay you when you're sick, but for me, the biggest benefits are:

• I can work in my PJ's
• I might work odd hours, but hey, its around MY schedule
• I don't have to book a day off or leave work early for appointments or if the kids get sick
• Im not working for anyone, and have the ability to turn down projects I don't like or want and even fire a bad client!
• and the best bit? I make more money in a month than my old job
• I dont have to pay a babysitter or a nursery to look after my kids
• I'm tied to my OWN deadlines, not imposed ones

There are lots more, but I love the fact that its highly rewarding and you are doing it off your own back. Not many people in regular jobs can say that.

Having said that though, an office job taught me how to be organized and adhere to deadlines, and how to work and cope under pressure. So those are soft skills that you can transfer to your freelancing business.

[Jay White]

I was an in-house guy for almost 9 years before hanging my shingle--catalogs mostly. It was a great learning experience and a fabulous way to cut your teeth in this industry while getting paid for it. If it wasn't for my in-house days laying the groundwork for my freelance career, I wouldn't have the success that I've had.

That being said, I would never go back. In my first year as a freelancer, I made almost 3 times what I made as an in house guy. From home, part-time, in my jammies, etc. And that was starting from ZERO. Plus I have much more respect from my clients as a freelancer. In house copywriters where I worked were considered lower on the totem pole, so it was basically, "I don't care about your opinion--shutup and write." Not the case now.

So more freedom, more money, and more kudos--3 of the biggest reasons I LOVE freelance copywriting. Oh, and being able to play golf pretty much whenever I want. That's not a bad perk either.

[colmodwyer]

Interesting...

I've done both and prefer in-house, at least where I'm working now...

Where I work now though has a very unique business model. There's no "traditional" hierarchy, so almost all the pro's you list for in-house AND freelance apply to me now.

I have a steady paycheck, but I get royalties on top. Health benefits too. And as long as I'm producing I can work where I want, when I want.

Plus, I was in Florida last weekend on the company's dime. I can get re-reimbursed for buying copywriting books too.

Also, posting on/reading the WF IS work!

I'd say there are TWO cons exclusive to in-house though...

1. Distractions - People needing stuff, noisy/smelly colleagues etc. But like I said, if I want to be super-productive I work from home. No one's going to stop me.

2. Small Client Base - We have about 16 products, and we can choose which we want to write for. The only snag is it's all financial. So if I ever get the hankering to write for health, tough luck!

When you compare these with EVERYTHING involved in running your own business though, in-house is a no-brainer, at least for me.

AND... as it's Friday, beer drinking in the office and leaving at 3PM are approved of!

Again though, the disclaimer being I work for a company more or less run by copywriters, and if I wasn't making money for them I'd be out on my ass. So it's quite unique and a far cry from my last in-house position.

Colm

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by Jay White

I was an in-house guy for almost 9 years before hanging my shingle--catalogs mostly. It was a great learning experience and a fabulous way to cut your teeth in this industry while getting paid for it. If it wasn't for my in-house days laying the groundwork for my freelance career, I wouldn't have the success that I've had.

Great point. Like Angel mentioned, there's a lot of well-known copywriters who started out in-house and eventually went freelance.

For some copywriters I've talked to, going in-house makes better sense because they want to minimize the time spent running a business and spend the time with their family instead.

Personally, I've been self-employed since 1993 so I'm probably not good employee material anymore. I've still gotten some pretty sweet offers over the years though to be an in-house copywriter.

[Len Bailey]

Hi Danielle,

I've done both. An in-house position can be a great way to build experience, confidence, and a solid portfolio. And while you're doing it, you also receive a steady paycheck and other benefits.

On the other hand, it rarely pays what you can make as a freelancer. You can't set your own hours or pick your own clients ... and then there's often some level of "office politics."

Myself, I look back fondly at my days as an in-house copywriter. In the four years I wrote (for Littleton Coin and then Clayton Makepeace), I learned a tremendous amount. What's more, I wrote hundreds of pieces of copy for online, catalog, and direct mail promotions. The pay was good. The benefits were as well. And I met some great friends and contacts.

However, I've never enjoyed copywriting more than I have since returning to the freelance world. I like the freedom to work from home, or take a day off to spend time with the family. And I'm able to decide for myself how much I want to work and earn.

I wouldn't trade it for anything. Or at least anything under seven figures a year.

[FuturePrinceofPrint]

The question really is: Do you wanna learn how to write copy or, do you want your mind filled with garbage from an in house "copywriting" group. [It's in quotes because they don't know how to write killer copy]. They know how to "create" pretty stuff, not write letters that sell.

So, really the choice is yours: Do you want to be a I-create-pretty-things that aren't really worth a damn, or do you wanna be a I-get-results kind of person?

[ARSuarez]

Originally Posted by FuturePrinceofPrint

The question really is: Do you wanna learn how to write copy or, do you want your mind filled with garbage from an in house "copywriting" group. [It's in quotes because they don't know how to write killer copy]. They know how to "create" pretty stuff, not write letters that sell.

So, really the choice is yours: Do you want to be a I-create-pretty-things that aren't really worth a damn, or do you wanna be a I-get-results kind of person?

Listen man. I've seen your running around making some interesting posts. Most of them seemed to be attempts to recycle what Gary Halbert has said, though without the context to back it up. (I imagine you've read most of what Gary said, judging by your name).

Your enthusiasm is great, but this statement is completely unfounded and pigheaded to say.

Did you not read the other comments posted on here?

Do you KNOW who Arthur Johnson, Jim Rutz, Bencivenga, etc, all are?

If so, do they have minds "filled with garbage"?

The post is not about working for Madison Ave. agencies. It's about being an in-house copywriter, and I'm assuming - as most have - that it involves creating direct response pieces.

Being an in-house copywriter for a company (or even a DR agency) is considered one of the best ways to learn, since a more experienced writer will usually copy-chief you (or, become your mentor and you their cub).

Not trying to lash out at you. But it seems like you read the subject line of the thread, and went straight to your post.

Keep up the enthusiasm, but think before you make a post such as this one.

Warm regards,

Angel

[Ross James]

I think he is confused with an "Ad agency" [i put them in quotes]

[FuturePrinceofPrint]

Originally Posted by ARSuarez

Listen man. I've seen your running around making some interesting posts. Most of them seemed to be attempts to recycle what Gary Halbert has said, though without the context to back it up. (I imagine you've read most of what Gary said, judging by your name).

Your enthusiasm is great, but this statement is completely unfounded and pigheaded to say.

Did you not read the other comments posted on here?

Do you KNOW who Arthur Johnson, Jim Rutz, Bencivenga, etc, all are?

If so, do they have minds "filled with garbage"?

The post is not about working for Madison Ave. agencies. It's about being an in-house copywriter, and I'm assuming - as most have - that it involves creating direct response pieces.

Being an in-house copywriter for a company (or even a DR agency) is considered one of the best ways to learn, since a more experienced writer will usually copy-chief you (or, become your mentor and you their cub).

Not trying to lash out at you. But it seems like you read the subject line of the thread, and went straight to your post.

Keep up the enthusiasm, but think before you make a post such as this one.

Warm regards,

Angel

I have heard of Bencivenga and, I've read his bullets. Great stuff by the way. The point I was trying to make is this: The only way anyone really learns is by putting yourself on-the-line ; By having to write a heart-throbbing message that gets the lazy-ass guy sitting on his couch eating potato chips to send you money.

When you work in-house or for an ad agency there isn't that kind of pressure. And, most people would be better off learning that way, than training under some guy who gives him health benifits and "security". [Security is just a myth].

Anyway, most people who are copywriters have no idea what they are doing. That's the point

P.S. Let's not forget about Gene Schwartz

[Danielle Lynn]

A lot of points being made here

I think I'm going to have to adjust the question further:

Hypothetically: Would you take the opportunity to work as an in-house copywriter for the experience for 6 months supposing that during those 6 months you wouldn't be able to do any major freelance projects on the side? Afterwards you can venture forth and do as you wish, freelance, business, what-not.

(will be editing OP to include this question)

Originally Posted by FuturePrinceofPrint

The question really is: Do you wanna learn how to write copy or, do you want your mind filled with garbage from an in house "copywriting" group. [It's in quotes because they don't know how to write killer copy]. They know how to "create" pretty stuff, not write letters that sell.

So, really the choice is yours: Do you want to be a I-create-pretty-things that aren't really worth a damn, or do you wanna be a I-get-results kind of person?

My question is what is this 'garbage' you're referring to? At this point, you're making a lot of wild claims with little or no basis to back them up.

[ARSuarez]

Originally Posted by FuturePrinceofPrint

I have heard of Bencivenga and, I've read his bullets. Great stuff by the way. The point I was trying to make is this: The only way anyone really learns is by putting yourself on-the-line ; By having to write a heart-throbbing message that gets the lazy-ass guy sitting on his couch eating potato chips to send you money.

When you work in-house or for an ad agency there isn't that kind of pressure. And, most people would be better off learning that way, than training under some guy who gives him health benifits and "security". [Security is just a myth].

Anyway, most people who are copywriters have no idea what they are doing. That's the point

P.S. Let's not forget about Gene Schwartz

Hey FPP,

I see the point you're making. It makes sense. It's very gun-to-the-head. And it works.

Truth is though, nobody at any company is going to keep paying you in-house just for charity. You do have to learn quickly, or you'll get canned. Remember - any place hiring a DR copywriter counts results. And if you're not getting results, they can't keep paying you and paying you without any ROI (in you).

So, it's really impossible to say which is the better route - it's subjective. Most of the "great" in-house copywriters leave and become freelancers. It's just training. Most DR agencies and companies know it, too. Once you get REALLY good, you'll hit the road as a freelancer.

C'est la vie.

And thanks for reminding me of Gene. I have no idea how I forgot one of my favorite writers (especially when I started re-reading BA today).

All the best,

Angel

[RickDuris]

I think no matter whether you are an employee writing copy or you write copy on a freelance basis...

You should always be writing copy for yourself. On your own account. Promoting your own "stuff." Or being an affiliate for something you can get behind. It should go part and parcel with your copywriting research and education.

It keeps your wits sharp.

20 years ago, unless you owned your own business, this notion was practically impossible, very intimidating and usually cost prohibitive.

Today, anybody with decent copywriting chops can go out to eBay or CraigsList or Ali BAba and sell a product or service. Here on WF, you see it every day, there are people promoting WSOs.

Some of the ideas take off and become full fledged businesses, others generate "pizza money."

It doesn't matter. Just do it.

It'll give you a sense of confidence and certainty that will bleed over into your other endeavors. Whether you are working for a company or working with Clients.

- Rick Duris

[Danielle Lynn]

Originally Posted by RickDuris

I think no matter whether you are an employee writing copy or you write copy on a freelance basis...

You should always be writing copy for yourself. On your own account. Promoting your own "stuff." Or being an affiliate for something you can get behind. It should go part and parcel with your copywriting research and education.

It keeps your wits sharp.

20 years ago, unless you owned your own business, this notion was practically impossible, very intimidating and usually cost prohibitive.

Today, anybody with decent copywriting chops can go out to eBay or CraigsList and sell a product or service. Here on WF, you see it every day, there are people promoting WSOs.

Some of the ideas take off and become full fledged businesses, others generate "pizza money."

It doesn't matter. Just do it.

It'll give you a sense of confidence and certainty that will bleed over into your other endeavors. Whether you are working for a company or working with Clients.

- Rick Duris

Well said Rick, after being a freelancer myself for the last few years, I don't think I could ever get out of the habit of promoting my copy business, even if I did decide to work in-house to get some perspective.

And the internet is just awesome for how easy it is for anyone to get on and start making a name for themselves...

So I fully agree- regardless if you're a freelancer or in-house copywriter continue to get out there and press forward.

I'm still curious though, would you take a stint as an in-house writer yourself for the experience, and why or why not?

[RickDuris]

Originally Posted by DanielleLynnCopy

I'm still curious though, would you take a stint as an in-house writer yourself for the experience, and why or why not?

I am unemployable. Not by choice. By nature. I have no idea what it would be like to be employed as an in-house copywriter. And I don't want to know.

To me, and I can elaborate it you want, but it doesn't sound like a very attractive proposition.

Bottom line, no offense and I'm sure you mean well, but you're asking--and I am absolutely the last person to ask.

Ask someone who has been an in-house copywriter and get their perspective.

- Rick Duris

[Danielle Lynn]

Originally Posted by RickDuris

I am unemployable. Not by choice. By nature. I have no idea what it would be like to be employed as an in-house copywriter.

To me, and I can elaborate it you want, but it doesn't sound like a very attractive proposition.

Bottom line, no offense and I'm sure you mean well, but you're asking me--and I am absolutely the wrong person to ask.

Ask someone who has been an in-house copywriter and get their perspective.

- Rick Duris

Well, we know that excellent copy can be found in the 'unemployable' anyway. I appreciate your input and your honesty.

And no worries, the purpose of this thread is to see what each copywriter-warrior has to say on the matter.

[Daniel Scott]

Personally, I'd probably take it - only as a temporary stint though.

I think I'd learn a lot because it's such a radically different environment to what I'm used to (which is literally writing copy in my underwear).

But I think after six months I would have likely sucked up the choice tidbits and be crying out for release.

Just my hypothetical.

-Daniel

[sethczerepak]

Freelance, without a second thought.

The steady pay thing is such a dangling carrot. When you think about it, which is more secure..

Having a steady paycheck from a single company, a company who could at any time lay you off...causing you to lose your ENTIRE income stream?

or...

Having a wide and diverse based of customers, where if you were to lose one or two, you'll still have others to fall back on until you found more?

There's certainly more security in the second...it's diversification. Add to this the commuting, the cap on your income, working under someone else's supervision, having to wake up at a set time and adhere to a schedule and (most of all for me anyway), not being able to fire your customers if they get rude, unreasonable or if they're not paying you well (or one time).

Whew. Just reminds me of how thankful I am to be away from that mess.

[Danielle Lynn]

@Daniel I'm pretty much riding that boat too I haven't done in-house yet, so at this point it's still novel, but I don't think they could offer enough to entice me... even if they let me wear pjs to work :O

@Seth Yes... I know that one too well. My mom had worked with a company faithfully for 20 years and they dumped her like yesterday's newspaper. That certainly was not a fun experience.

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by sethczerepak

Freelance, without a second thought.

The steady pay thing is such a dangling carrot. When you think about it, which is more secure..

Having a steady paycheck from a single company, a company who could at any time lay you off...causing you to lose your ENTIRE income stream?

or...

Having a wide and diverse based of customers, where if you were to lose one or two, you'll still have others to fall back on until you found more?

There's certainly more security in the second...it's diversification. Add to this the commuting, the cap on your income, working under someone else's supervision, having to wake up at a set time and adhere to a schedule and (most of all for me anyway), not being able to fire your customers if they get rude, unreasonable or if they're not paying you well (or one time).

Whew. Just reminds me of how thankful I am to be away from that mess.

Seth, I agree with most of your points except for the fixed income point.

There are a growing number of companies following the Agora model and paying salary plus royalties and/or performance bonuses to their in-house copywriters.

It's a smart tactic on finding and keeping top-quality copywriters on their payroll.

[gjabiz]

Originally Posted by DanielleLynnCopy

Updated Question: Hypothetically: Would you take the opportunity to work as an in-house copywriter for the experience for 6 months supposing that during those 6 months you wouldn't be able to do any major freelance projects on the side? Afterwards you can venture forth and do as you wish, freelance, business, what-not.

I would advise most people to take a short term position (hard to find, rare) as an in-house copywriter IF it fits into a longer range career goal.

I see we have various opinions on what happens inside...let me speak from experience, as a person with both agency and direct response companies in my background.

First thing, there is a big difference...in many agencies you get assignments and work for a salary with all the benefits. As you grow and understand the agency's needs, you might get more flexibility to pick and choose or SPECIALIZE in an area.

As an in-house copywriter at a direct response company, you may get assignments and/or you get to choose...but one big, MAJOR difference is your work is (or could be) commissionable work...which is what you want or where you want to get to.

So, you have a stake in the copy...future income is dictated by how well you write...and in some instances, a salary is considered a "draw" against commissionable work.

In two instances, the companies paid a sliding scale base salary...lower salary/higher commission OR higher salary/lower commissions.

The times I have been an "Employee"...I've had both work at home opportunities (didn't eliminate my stinky co-worker) and butt in a seat at the "office" type of jobs.

Today, you'll find many companies willing to offer split time...you need some time at the corporate office, but you may be allowed to work from home 3 days a week. In those instances, I would attend Monday meetings and Friday morning meetings while working at home Tue, Wed and Thur and Sat and Sun...really, when you write for commissions, you work around the clock.

The UPSIDE to the butt in a chair positions was exposure to the entire operation and othe professionals, such as learning graphics or seeing the shipping and handling area...being there gives you a much greater understanding of the whole process.

Two of the companies where I've been employed had hundreds of employees each and a huge "campus" of activities. In two other instances, there were less than 20 employees and in one case, we had 10 people (the owner used freelancers).

Another upside to both agency and marketing company experience is NETWORKING. You'll learn and meet people who could be invaluable to your career...which is why it is important to put your question in the context of a longer range career goal.

While I'm not a good employee, I found the experiences to be extremely educational and also exposed me to bigger thinking and a larger picture.

I find a lot of the younger freelancers, especially here, talking out of their anus when it comes to life and work experience. The real world works differently from what many think it does.

Also, you'll find owners will often negotiate with you if you can deliver the goods, which is why so many Internet Marketing Copywriters without real world experience should stick to WSOs and Product Launches.

So, the answer DanielleLynn is....does working in-house serve YOUR purposes and fit into YOUR longer range career goals?

Having a steady job today isn't the worst thing a copywriter could do...all while learning and building a portfolio to use in a future freelance career.

There is also a social aspect to having a JOB which often leads to benefits beyond money and income...I have great friends I've met at WORK, and these are important people in my life I wouldn't have had, if I had been a freelancer only.

gjabiz

PS. I was an employee after being a successful freelancer, then went back to freelancing armed with a full arsenal of knowledge, success and contacts after my time in the chair was over.

Good luck and remember, no matter the job description, there is room to negotiate.

[Hammad]

Keeping in touch with both is better if one can keep it, have a fixed salary job but try to make your worth as a free lance too, i can be needed at anytime.

[Mitt Ray]

I love working as a freelance copywriter. Two of my favorite perks of working freelance are that I can set my own hours and I don't have a boss to answer to.

I don't mind the marketing bit as I like marketing myself and getting my own work. I can also choose what I want to work on. I also save a lot of time as I don't have to travel to work.

[Bruce NewMedia]

I would rather clean toilets in a biker bar, live in a van down by the river, and eat ramen noodles til they made me vomit, than work as an employee....that aside, I do miss casual Fridays....
_____
Bruce

[jurisaragih]

Lot of pro copywriter stopping by here. Nice.

[GlobalMedia]

Ya, its our own decision whether we want to work for others or for ourself. I will go with the second option. It does not restrict our potential to grow.

[markreed757]

What about a free lancer that works with some marketeers. This way they find you the work. While you get to have the best of both worlds. Plus you still get to set the price.

[Ideaswise]

I've been a freelance copywriter since 1994, apart from a brief period when I took a fulltime job with my main freelance client. I'm not going back fulltime ever again.

As someone pointed out, provided you're halfway decent it's actually more secure to be a freelancer. And so much better in terms of choosing hours, clients etc