Tell 'Em To Go Away, Because They'll Be Back

[Stephen Dean]

Recently I've noticed a lot of copywriting applicants with, to say the least, interesting expectations. I get questions about money-back guarantees, if I can deliver over night, if I can give them a million dollars and other fantasies.

I can say this. If a client asks me about a money-back guarantee, I start nudging them out the door. On several occasions lately I've suggested that I may not be the copywriter for them.

And this frustrates them. I've gotten emails saying, "Hey! I'm a potential client and you don't seem interested!"

Well... I'm sorry. I'm not too interested. It's obvious that this isn't the first time we won't see eye to eye.

These marketers are usually beginners or haven't made much money. Because an established marketer or business who has experience outsourcing projects would never expect a money-back guarantee for work that is essentially manual labor.

I DO want to help beginners break through and become successful. So I try to help and inform them and will even still take their project if they seem to come to understand the client/copywriter relationship.

But if they don't, I politely show them the door.

In other words, I tell them to go away, because I know they'll be back.

Here are some examples of questions/requests that disqualify a client from working with me. But are ALSO signs that they'll be back.

Do you offer a money back guarantee if the copy doesn't convert?

As an unstupid warrior put it...

Originally Posted by lemonarian

Talk to any of the top copywriters, and ask about their money back guarantee...

The point was, top copywriters don't have a money back guarantee. Vin Montello, probably the most respected copywriter on this board also chimed in...

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

But no... you can't have your money back. Just like I can't have the 5 weeks of blood I bled into it back.

The message is this. Copywriters WORK for a living. If we put in 40 hours of work, we expect to be paid.

That doesn't mean we should be able to deliver crap and then walk away. There usually is some sort of guarantee that protects the copywriter and the client, but it's not "money back."

For me, I automatically offer split/multivariate testing free to all clients. This way if the copy isn't converting, I usually know before they do. And that means I get to work fast to fix and tweak the copy so it converts.

My official guarantee is that I'll rewrite your copy up to 3 times within 30 days. Believe me, that's a lot of work and I'd rather just deliver a home run on the first time. It's enough incentive to get my best work out of me.

And while that guarantee is RARELY used, a handful of times in over 7 years of writing copy, it is a strong guarantee. I actually modeled it after my mentor, Michel Fortin.

I'm comfortable with a client walking away because I don't offer a money back guarantee. Why? Because I know they'll be back.

Like we've seen, quality copywriters don't offer money back guarantees. So if a prospect chooses a copywriter who DOES offer one, they're likely to be disappointed with the results and be in the market for another copywriter very soon.

Will you continue to work on the copy until it converts?

Well, almost yes.

I want your copy to convert as much as you do. It's vital to my career. And that's why I offer free split/multivariate testing free from the get go. As per my guarantee, I'll also rewrite your copy up to 3 times to make sure it converts.

But will I promise that I'll work the rest of my life on your copy if it's not converting? Pure logic says no. Even though I'm quite confident we'll never run in to this situation, the hypothetical implications of working the rest of my life for the small fee you pay me makes it impossible for me to say yes to this question.

Of course, a less experienced copywriter who desperately needs the work will say "yes" to any question you ask. And of course the client is likely to be disappointed with their less experienced work.

In which case, they'll be back.

Can you finish my copy by Thursday?

Dude. It's Tuesday night. And I'm booked for the next several weeks (or months) in a row.

Any copywriter who DOESN'T have a copywriting job right now, may not be the copywriter you want.

So if that other copywriter can start working for you tomorrow...

well...

...you'll be back.

Cheers,
Stephen Dean

[Mark Andrews]

I can well empathize with you Stephen, they drive me up the wall. (And get short shrift from me too.)

Mind you, some of the requests do make you laugh...

One person recently contacted me and I kid you not, asked if I could compete with a sales letter offer on Fiverr.com LOL

I felt like reaching my hands through the monitor and poking him straight in the eye lol.

There's some beauties out there that's for sure.

[briancassingena]

Stephen, I'm really interested in the way you offer the split testing for your clients. I work with them for 3 months to tweak and possibly rewrite, (rarely asked for of course), can you please tell me how you do the split testing for your clients - do you set it up, do you host their page,how do you manage the program?

[max5ty]

Interesting post stephen - I think I may have an answer why some have their prospective clients asking these questions.

There are a lot of new copywriters out there nowadays that are willing to offer just about anything to drum up business - some of these question askers may think they can shop around and pick the best offer, instead of realizing they should be trying to pick the best person who can give them the best results.

They usually get what they pay for.

Depending on how you look at it - copywriters who are starting out and get hired on the cheap, and then turn out sloppy work can be a blessing for master copywriters like yourself, because their controls are a snap to beat - and you usually end up with a long term customer.

[Stephen Dean]

Originally Posted by max5ty

There are a lot of new copywriters out there nowadays that are willing to offer just about anything to drum up business - some of these question askers may think they can shop around and pick the best offer, instead of realizing they should be trying to pick the best person who can give them the best results.

Bingo. I've tried to warn potential clients before - even after I've declined their project, so there's no incentive for me - that any copywriter that would give in to their demands is not worth hiring.

So far, I'm not sure my advice has been taken.

In the end, the market will rule. The economy has changed things a bit. Clients are asking WAY more questions before they hire someone - which can be a good thing.

Unfortunately there are WAY more amateur copywriters willing to say "yes" to every question they ask. This doesn't hurt me, but it does hurt the client.

As the market grows wiser, the clients will mature and see through these cheap "yes" copywriters.

Cheers,
Stephen

[Stephen Dean]

Originally Posted by briancassingena

Stephen, I'm really interested in the way you offer the split testing for your clients. I work with them for 3 months to tweak and possibly rewrite, (rarely asked for of course), can you please tell me how you do the split testing for your clients - do you set it up, do you host their page,how do you manage the program?

I ask for FTP access to their site and I set it up with Google Optimizer. Sometimes with their Google Optimizer account, sometimes with mine.

Cheers,
Stephen Dean
Copywriting Dean | Copywriter Stephen Dean Talks Internet Advertising

[maximus242]

Good post, i like you.

[Bruce NewMedia]

Originally Posted by Pete Walker

One person recently contacted me and I kid you not, asked if I could compete with a sales letter offer on Fiverr.com LOL

I felt like reaching my hands through the monitor and poking him straight in the eye lol. There's some beauties out there that's for sure.

LOL, LOL, ...OMG, that cracked me up! Y'know what I would have said,

"Sure, get your pen, ready?".... "Buy This"..

Now send me my five bucks.
_____
Bruce

[Dean Jackson]

Originally Posted by brucerby

LOL, LOL, ...OMG, that cracked me up! Y'know what I would have said,

"Sure, get your pen, ready?".... "Buy This"..

Now send me my five bucks.
_____
Bruce

No kidding - a lot of folks on fiverr actually think this is possible.

Case in point, I had an offer to give 5 suggestions on a letter to improve conversions as a lead gen to see if anyone would invest in rewrites/letters from scratch if it was a "do-over".

I had one guy who had decent copy, and I quoted to rewrite it for a few hundred bucks.... the others actually expected me to rewrite their letters for $5-$10 - No joke.

Not doing that again lol.


Dean

[briancassingena]

Freelance copywriting would be the perfect business if it wasn't for the clients...

[CopyAcolyte]

If clients these days are being extra choosey on hiring copywriters, then does that mean there's less demand for copywriters?

I think it's plausible given the economy (recent double-dip factored in!).

[Stephen Dean]

Originally Posted by CopyAcolyte

If clients these days are being extra choosey on hiring copywriters, then does that mean there's less demand for copywriters?

I think it's plausible given the economy (recent double-dip factored in!).

I think "yes" and "no."

Clients are being tighter with their money and spending less on copywriters - I think that has led to many copywriters lowering their prices or changing their business plan. And then, of course, there are more "copywriters" coming out from the woodwork with $5 fiverr offers.

So I'm not sure if there's less demand. I think clients are just paying less, asking more questions and in some instances making silly demands.

This can often mean the potential clients pick whichever copywriter is willing to lie to them the most. That's not good for the client or the copywriter.

But there are still many reasonable clients out there, and these are the ones I work for

Cheers,
Stephen

[wordydiva]

Potential clients looking to hirer someone who will beat Fivver are always fun.

I certainly want to keep clients happy, but even the best copy isn't going to save a horrible, overdone, product offer. Some clients who are looking for a money-back guarantee know that and are still hoping for a way to secure some of their investment if their product doesn't sale.

What gets me the most is those clients who refuse to take "no thank you" for an answer. No one really likes turning away a client, but who wants to deal with the person who is going to demand their money back if you can't work a miracle on their behalf?

[lemonarian]

Good thread Stephen. I agree 100%.

Haven't had something as ridiculous as a $5 incentive happen to me just yet, but mostly it's those who want me to write for free in exchange for services or royalties or what have you.

For example there was one guy who wanted me to write for his SEO service in exchange for a few hundred bucks worth of links...

It's one thing if you're a new copywriter and you approach a company offering them to write on spec - that's just a good offer with no risk on their part. If they don't make money, you don't make money.

It's another thing if a client approaches you, and wants you to write on spec because they can't afford your fees... That's definitely not a risk-free offer on your or the client's part.

Anyway, good thread.

Linus

[Nick Brighton]

Originally Posted by Stephen Dean

And this frustrates them. I've gotten emails saying, "Hey! I'm a potential client and you don't seem interested!"

To which I would reply...

“Hey, I'm a potential shoe bomber and you don't seem scared.”

[kpaulmedia]

Aaron Wall had a great post once on Free-tards... and another one on pricing yourself right. Took me a while to learn this one. If you price yourself too low, people are going to think you have something to prove and will want/expect MORE from you at the lower rates. When you charge higher rates (and deliver) you get more respect.

YouTube - ‪The Vendor Client relationship...

[Danielle Lynn]

Originally Posted by Nick Brighton

To which I would reply...

“Hey, I'm a potential shoe bomber and you don't seem scared.”

LOL , now that just made my morning.





P.S. I'm hiding my shoes from you Nick.