Stop being cheap (a lesson I just learned)

[TimCastleman]

Look I'm on my second bottle of Southern Comfort so just go with me.

You know who doesn't love something for nothing - or darn near.

We want free copy reviews, sales letters for $4.35 and stuff to be done for us as cheap as possible.

I get it.

What I don't get is when you buy a $800 used car with 250,000 miles on it and then expect it to perform like a brand new sports car.

I've had to learn this lesson the hard way as well.

"Oh I'll just write my own copy and save a few bucks."

I have the same ability to write copy as Kristie Ally does to step away from the buffet.

So I actually invested some money in a copywriter (no I'm not listing their name in public - you want it - PM me) and low and behold my sales went up.

Same product, same traffic, but I finally let an expert do their work and as a result I made more money.

It wasn't a fee - it was an investment.

An investment I plan on making every time I need some copy done.

Look focus on your strengths.

Now for the people who say "I can't afford to hire a copywriter" I'd say two things.

1. You can't afford not to. Seriously they get paid to bring you more money. If I asked you for $5 and then gave you $20 back - then you'd be cool with that right??

That's what a copywriter does.

2. Find a way. Sell some stuff, offer them a huge percentage, a copy of the buyers email list, etc.

Make it happen.

I promise you - spend some money and 99% of the time you won't be disappointed.

Drinks getting warm - gotta run.

Tim

[kpaulmedia]

Great thoughts. I would add that you shouldn't skimp on paying for copy as the few pennies saved may cost you dollars in the future...

[Fernando Veloso]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

I have the same ability to write copy as Kristie Ally does to step away from the buffet.

Tim, you got me there. Next product you write my copy. Drinks on me.

[Bruce NewMedia]

....Tim great point and with a good copywriter you'll be drinking Jack Daniels before you know it!
_____
Bruce

[TimCastleman]

Originally Posted by brucerby

....Tim great point and with a good copywriter you'll be drinking Jack Daniels before you know it!
_____
Bruce

Bruce I'm normally a 23 year old rum type of guy but today I was going for quantity over quality.

Tim

[briancassingena]

My point exactly. I know a website where I could download a pirated copy of Mass Control if I wanted but I didn't hesitate to buy a copy on eBay when I saw it. As a result I value it a whole lot more than all the free ebooks I have on my PC.

[Shadowflux]

Tim,

You need to get this message out into the world lol

I was going to write more but I think you pretty much nailed it. You may be full of SoCo but you're speaking the truth.

The only thing I would add is that when you do hire a copywriter you shouldn't try to cut corners and hire some fly by night writer simply because they offered you an amazingly low price.

[Josiah]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Look I'm on my second bottle of Southern Comfort so just go with me.

You know who doesn't love something for nothing - or darn near.

We want free copy reviews, sales letters for $4.35 and stuff to be done for us as cheap as possible.

I get it.

What I don't get is when you buy a $800 used car with 250,000 miles on it and then expect it to perform like a brand new sports car.

I've had to learn this lesson the hard way as well.

"Oh I'll just write my own copy and save a few bucks."

I have the same ability to write copy as Kristie Ally does to step away from the buffet.

So I actually invested some money in a copywriter (no I'm not listing their name in public - you want it - PM me) and low and behold my sales went up.

Same product, same traffic, but I finally let an expert do their work and as a result I made more money.

It wasn't a fee - it was an investment.

An investment I plan on making every time I need some copy done.

Look focus on your strengths.

Now for the people who say "I can't afford to hire a copywriter" I'd say two things.

1. You can't afford not to. Seriously they get paid to bring you more money. If I asked you for $5 and then gave you $20 back - then you'd be cool with that right??

That's what a copywriter does.

2. Find a way. Sell some stuff, offer them a huge percentage, a copy of the buyers email list, etc.

Make it happen.

I promise you - spend some money and 99% of the time you won't be disappointed.

Drinks getting warm - gotta run.

Tim

Well spoken, Tim.

There's a reason people use the word "invest" when they talk about hiring a professional copywriter. You can get all the traffic you want, but if your copy isn't convincing, you will actually be losing yourself money. You work hard for that traffic, so why not do everything in your power to monetize it? You may think "wow, great deal!" when you pay a fraction of what the copywriting pros are charging, but any marketer worth his salt knows a good investment when he sees one.

[morrow66]

I agree with what you are saying but I find it hard to know a good price. what is the average price for a good copywriter? I know some people who send like $10k on a copywriter and they do very well but what if you do not have that kind of money to invest.

[TimCastleman]

Originally Posted by morrow66

I agree with what you are saying but I find it hard to know a good price. what is the average price for a good copywriter? I know some people who send like $10k on a copywriter and they do very well but what if you do not have that kind of money to invest.

You're going to love this answer - it depends.

I have a friend who write copy and charges $3,000 for it. Once he hits a few launches he'll be bumping his fee to at least $10,000.

I know a guy who started at $97 and is now up to $5,000 plus a fee.

I also know of a wicked copywriter who charges $500 for a sales letter.


The choice is yours. If I were in your shoes I'd do two things.

1. Write you own letter BUT have it reviewed (for a fee) by a professional copywriter. Pay someone a few hundred bucks and get their thoughts, changes, and suggestions.

2. Have a copywriter do the letter. So lets say your budget is $750 then spend say $500 on the copywriter and then the rest getting a "better" copywriter to review it.

Now that's just my thoughts - what I would is spend all the money I had in my budget and hire the best copywriter around.

How do you know they're the best you ask?

Because they have testimonials, proof of prior work, and you guys click to work well together.

Now some people are brand new or just getting started so that is why they charge less.

Either way good luck.

Tim

PS: I'm not posting any of the copywriters info here because I don't want them to be overtaken with questions - if you want their info PM me and I'll get it to you - I don't make a dime from any of them getting work - just want to help.

[MissLauraCatella]

Thanks Tim!

I'd also like to add -- that putting a nice chunk of change down as an investment into your sales copy is a motivating investment that reinforces, or even intensifies, your commitment to the project.

Some $97 sales letters never even see the light of day... but if you're ready to rock and throw even $500 down, or way more, you'll be sure you're going to bring that baby to launch with all the bells and whistles and cruuushhh it

So people debating their copy investment should ask themselves about their commitment level, and if they're ready to "crush it," and act accordingly.

Great post of course

[Souldja]

Great post.
But I am new in IM and I have no much money to invest. Actually I've payed for Aweber (1-year) and bought a doman.. Also I've bought some WSOs to know how to drive traffic and write a copies..
A sad thing that I'm not native speaker and I'm affraid to earn nothing when I'll drive traffic to my squeeze page..
500$ - 1000$...
What should newbie like me do?

[Len Bailey]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Same product, same traffic, but I finally let an expert do their work and as a result I made more money.

It wasn't a fee - it was an investment.

An investment I plan on making every time I need some copy done.

Look focus on your strengths.

Well said! And it doesn't just apply to writing copy, either -- it's why I stick to writing copy and don't even try to handle the design side.

Sure, I could Spackle something together... but there's no doubt it would end up costing me more in lost revenue than I can pay a professional to do it right the first time.

[Len Bailey]

Originally Posted by Souldja

Great post.
But I am new in IM and I have no much money to invest. Actually I've payed for Aweber (1-year) and bought a doman.. Also I've bought some WSOs to know how to drive traffic and write a copies..
A sad thing that I'm not native speaker and I'm affraid to earn nothing when I'll drive traffic to my squeeze page..
500$ - 1000$...
What should newbie like me do?

Some copywriters are willing to waive upfront fees for a percentage of profits. Or perhaps a trade of services... say, website design for copywriting. So don't be afraid to get creative. There's always a way.

[Stephen Dean]

Originally Posted by Souldja

Great post.
But I am new in IM and I have no much money to invest. Actually I've payed for Aweber (1-year) and bought a doman.. Also I've bought some WSOs to know how to drive traffic and write a copies..
A sad thing that I'm not native speaker and I'm affraid to earn nothing when I'll drive traffic to my squeeze page..
500$ - 1000$...
What should newbie like me do?

Hire a proofreader. They should cost less than a copywriter.

[Stephen Dean]

I love how many copywriters "Thanked" a post endorsing hiring copywriters. Good way to boost your "Thanks" count

[GuerrillaIM]

If you are truly awful at writing copy then hiring someone is the best option. However, if your ordinary writing skills are reasonable and you have some motivation to read books and learn then I think you should at least strive to develop rudimentary copywriting skills.

I've been writing my own copy for 10 years now but I do not consider myself a copywriter.

In the past I had the notion that all I had to do was hire a copywriter and hey presto money would roll in. The truth I found was that to get a copywriter that could create compelling copy that out converted my own by any noticeable margin was not an easy task.

(I am not blowing my own horn here, this isn't out of any great affinity for words, but rather due to the thousands of customers I have sold to over the phone. I know what they like to hear and what turns them off. Some of it is counter-intuitive and not instantly obvious).

To write copy that converts is not that hard as long as you have a decent angle and a compelling offer.

I follow this process now each time I come up with a new offer:

1. Write copy myself and see if it converts (if it absolutely bombs then in my experience usually the offer is wrong. Even bad copy with a good offer should get some response)

2. Split test myself until I get it to a reasonable level and have discovered some good hot buttons.

3. Hire an experienced copywriter (preferably with extensive experience in my niche) and get them to put the icing on the cake.

Step 1&2 may take months but even if I hire a copywriter all this leg work and AB testing still has to be done.

Until I see a positive response to an offer I don't see the wisdom of paying someone else a premium to do the donkey work. Once I get it to a stage where it proves it works and has promising test data, then its time to get the chequebook out.

I know there are a lot of cheap copywriters out there but I have never had any luck finding one that could write converting copy in my niche. The typical "IM style" hyped up writing doesn't often do so well.

The more experienced copywriters I know charge more because of the level of research and background work they do. It's not just about flowery writing. The more info and test data I have, the better job they can do and it will cost me less.

[cardine]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

1. You can't afford not to. Seriously they get paid to bring you more money. If I asked you for $5 and then gave you $20 back - then you'd be cool with that right??

I agree with the idea behind your post, but it isn't that black and white.

Whether or not you should outsource to a copywriter should be based on where your business is at. You should put a value on your time, estimate how much it would cost to hire a copywriter, and then estimate how much the copywriter will help.

If you could only make $10/hr doing other work then you probably should write your copy because you aren't bringing any other value.

However, if you could instead add more value by spending that time designing or programming then it makes sense to hire a copywriter.

If you take the time to research comparative advantage (Wikipedia it) and apply it to your online marketing you'll learn a lot about how to approach marketing. Mainly, you should find out what you're best at, focus on doing that (because you'll make the most money doing that), and then outsource the rest.

[Chulbul Pandey]

i would like to hire a copywriter but i cant pm yet...so please lemme noe who i can contact..

[Cam Connor]

Great post man, now just copy and paste this into the Main Forum for the whole world to see. ;-)

[TimCastleman]

Originally Posted by Souldja

Great post.
But I am new in IM and I have no much money to invest. Actually I've payed for Aweber (1-year) and bought a doman.. Also I've bought some WSOs to know how to drive traffic and write a copies..
A sad thing that I'm not native speaker and I'm affraid to earn nothing when I'll drive traffic to my squeeze page..
500$ - 1000$...
What should newbie like me do?

Contact me if you need the name of a copywriter who converts well and is in that budget.

Good luck to you.

By the way, congrats on understand that copy is an investment and it can help you overcome you lack of English.

Tim

[TimCastleman]

Originally Posted by Stephen Dean

I love how many copywriters "Thanked" a post endorsing hiring copywriters. Good way to boost your "Thanks" count

Stevo -

Not a copywriter, but I thanked your post.

Look some people get it, others don't - it's cool no matter what side of the fence you fall on.

I made the investment and made the most money on a product release to date.

Even better - not as much stress and I got to focus on what I'm really good at (Call of Duty time baby!).

Tim

[ResearchDiva]

Here's a true story about the rate of return on your copy investment.

Guy with a product in a popular niche, priced at something like $47, was ready to throw in the towel and sell his site.

Went to his copywriter friend who put together a Video Sales Letter Copy and upped the price of the product...higher than what any current competitor was charging.

You guessed it....sales conversions soared and the guy didn't sell his site...it's still making money today.

This isn't a fairy tale - good copy from someone who understands what goes on in the trenches of internet marketing is worth their weight in gold. They have the ability to see your product in a whole new light...one that you might not be able to see cuz you've been "married" to it for too long.

I think that James has his case studies on his site: JamesWedmore.com and go to the Video Salesletter page - there are case studies on the bottom. He also gives you a process for putting your Video Salesletters together which might be helpful if you're trying to craft your own.

Hope that helps
Dawn Damico
YourResearchDiva.com

[Stephen Dean]

Originally Posted by TimCastleman

Stevo -

Not a copywriter, but I thanked your post.

Look some people get it, others don't - it's cool no matter what side of the fence you fall on.

I made the investment and made the most money on a product release to date.

Even better - not as much stress and I got to focus on what I'm really good at (Call of Duty time baby!).

Tim

Oh I agree with your sentiment. And like your post!

[iSoftware]

The next best thing to hiring a good copywriter - I have to give props to Gary Halbert who taught a lot of internet marketers (lol) for this bit of wisdom:
SELL TO HUNGRY MARKETS.
It doesn't take much copywriting to sell water to a dying man in the desert.

Please don't get me wrong - a while ago I introduced myself to Clayton Makepeace (example) and with $6 Billion under his belt in direct response revenues, I know there's value in hiring experts!

I'm saying part of good business is assessing what you are and are not good at and going from there.

The irony is, the more one's profits soar, the more one is willing to, as John Assaraf says "hire people who play at what you work at....".

[TimCastleman]

Originally Posted by iSoftware

The next best thing to hiring a good copywriter - I have to give props for Jimmy Reilly for this bit of wisdom:
SELL TO HUNGRY MARKETS.
It doesn't take much copywriting to sell water to a dying man in the desert.

Please don't get me wrong - a while ago I introduced myself to Clayton Makepeace (example) and with $6 Billion under his belt in direct response revenues, I know there's value in hiring experts!

I'm saying part of good business is assessing what you are and are not good at and going from there.

The irony is, the more one's profits soar, the more one is willing to, as John Assaraf says "hire people who play at what you work at....".

You should really thank Gary Halbert who is credited as the founder of that statement. Jimmy and a million others (including me) have said the same thing.

Tim

[Bruce NewMedia]

The next best thing to hiring a good copywriter - I have to give props for Jimmy Reilly for this bit of wisdom:
SELL TO HUNGRY MARKETS.
It doesn't take much copywriting to sell water to a dying man in the desert.

Actually it is taking more and more good copy to sell even these hungry/thirsty markets....the bar keeps being raised.
_____
Bruce

[EdJackson]

I like your comparison to the used cars.

I wrote a great ebook on how to buy a used car cheap.

For sure my info was good. My brother was a used car salesman.

I just promoted it all wrong.

If any Warrior wants it/needs it then PM me.

We can give it away to get leads???

I Dunno.

Ed

[Chris Sorrell]

Good points, but I think it's worth mentioning that you must at least be aware of the basics of copywriting before investing in a copywriter, otherwise how do you know if you're getting your money's worth?

Going in blindly is leaving you open to either getting outright duped or at best, paying for something you may think is great, when in actual fact it's fairly mediocre. You'll then end up wondering why that great copy you thought you had has now barely brought in any sales.

All I could suggest to anyone is to buy something like 'Writing Riches' by the masterful Ray Edwards to at least know the format/layout of a sales page and an overview of copywriting/persuasion techniques. It's probably the single most valuable thing I've ever bought in my entire life.

Either that or check out the sticky on this section about the best copywriting books out there.

[Paul McQuillan]

Are we talking about Warrior here?

Most on here are broke, so it's not so much that do not want to
pay as much as they can't.

I'm not so sure this thread will get any attention but from those
who want to get paid more.. nothing from those hiring.

Vast majority of this site are those new or just plain bad at
making money. Most of the 'jobs' are for products that John
Carlton, Makepeace and Joe Sugarman couldn't sell... together.

It's hard to justify premium prices for tight compelling copy,
when they're eating beans and rice. All of them are hoping
one of these cheapies will do just enough to 'skyrocket them
to success'.

No thread can change the economics, and those posting
them should be well aware of the environment.

IMHO

[TimCastleman]

Originally Posted by IM Viper

Are we talking about Warrior here?

Most on here are broke, so it's not so much that do not want to
pay as much as they can't.

I'm not so sure this thread will get any attention but from those
who want to get paid more.. nothing from those hiring.

Vast majority of this site are those new or just plain bad at
making money. Most of the 'jobs' are for products that John
Carlton, Makepeace and Joe Sugarman couldn't sell... together.

It's hard to justify premium prices for tight compelling copy,
when they're eating beans and rice. All of them are hoping
one of these cheapies will do just enough to 'skyrocket them
to success'.

No thread can change the economics, and those posting
them should be well aware of the environment.

IMHO

That is am amazing positive outlook on life you have there. Thank you for sharing it.