Empathy

[Alex Cohen]

Empathy is a crucial element of any sales letter. It shows your prospect that you identify with him and understand what he's going through.

Yesterday, I re-listened to an audio recorded by Brian Keith Voiles in which he discusses the subject at length. And he really hits the nail on the head.

If you have his Ad Magic course, re-listen to CD1.

If not, consider purchasing the course. His discussion on empathy alone is well worth the price (it's available on eBay).

You'll get a lot out of it.

Alex

[jonmark]

Showing Empathy
To show empathy is to identify with another's feelings. It is to emotionally put yourself in the place of another. The ability to empathize is directly dependent on your ability to feel your own feelings and identify them.

If you have never felt a certain feeling, it will be hard for you to understand how another person is feeling. This holds equally true for pleasure and pain. If, for example, you have never put your hand in a flame, you will not know the pain of fire. If you have not experienced sexual passion, you will not understand its power. Similarly, if you have never felt rebellious or defiant, you will not understand those feelings. Reading about a feeling and intellectually knowing about it is very different than actually experiencing it for yourself.

[Alex Ceskavich]

My answer to Empathy is always "Why?"

In and of itself, it's not a persuasive tool. It's similar to the way you'd swing a hammer, a bat, or an axe... without actually being the hammer, bat or axe itself.

Focusing on cultivating it on it's own, with no goal, and with no purpose, is putting your attention in the wrong place, I believe.

Food for thought.

- Alex

[Alex Cohen]

Originally Posted by Alex Ceskavich

My answer to Empathy is always "Why?"

In and of itself, it's not a persuasive tool. It's similar to the way you'd swing a hammer, a bat, or an axe... without actually being the hammer, bat or axe itself.

Focusing on cultivating it on it's own, with no goal, and with no purpose, is putting your attention in the wrong place, I believe.

Food for thought.

Having empathy helps you climb into the mind of your prospect. Hopefully I don't have to explain how important that is.

Alex

[Alex Ceskavich]

How empathic of you...

- Alex

[art72]

Having studied some great philosophical minds, I do believe 'empathy' is a major ingredient used by the wise (and perhaps more mature crowd) who have cleared the egotistical 20's and molted into the middle age of 30's-40ish. (To each his/her own appointed time of course)

While I too believe empathy is acquired after one recognizes their own faults, ignorances, and essentially fears...it should not be confused with sympathy or pity either.

Naturally, many people prey on sympathy or pity...for those I have little empathy, and generally reserve a sense of apathy towards those who portray they are owed something without exerting effort.

We see this everyday in the IM world! There too, if you're apathetic enough, you can hammer these people's wallet with little conscience, if you're sociopathic.

I prefer to find those of like mindedness and goal oriented looking to benefit and prosper one another. (To date they are far and few between!)

However, whether it is to 'connect' or 'create' a mindshare with others, empathy can be found in many a genius minds. Comparing a hammer or a tool to a person doesn't exactly syncronize well with human emotions, and as I reflect on my adolescence...I didn't either

With age comes wisdom, and I wholeheartedly agree, the ability to see beyond oneself, can and will serve a great purpose when you use it to benefit another, and are willing to make sacrifice for the whole. (Though at times the reward seems absent all-together!)




A few examples:

• Confuses
• Buddha
• Jesus
• Martin Luther (Diet of Worms)
• Thomas Payne (Common Sense)
• William Tynsdale (Noted for English Literature)
• Andrew Carnegie
• Napoleon Hill

Everyone of these people knew thepower of empathy, psychology, philosophy, the art of pursuasion, and continue to influence people from beyond the grave, immortalizing their lifes work!

Thus, arming the ignorant with knowledge to defeat fear requires a certain measure of empathy, and can be considered a great act of philanthrophy.

Give a hungry homeless person a sandwich; it solves their problem momentarily....give them seeds, the tools to harvest, and point them towards rich soil; change their life forever and probably more!

Just my 2 cents

Art

edit: In conclusion, to know anothers needs, desires, and ambitions enables the host to provide a solution or choice; insomuch as sharing someone elses pain, or by filling their 'void' can in essence be considered a 'key' ingredient rooted deep into the art of pursuasion itself, and if mastered can influence and mobilize millions!

As stated above; this can be used for good or evil purposes, and resides within the conscience of the host.

Marketing in and of itself is strategic, and if structured properly can build empires or destroy them. IMO apathy destroys the common wealth of a majority, whilst empathy cultivates posterity, in concern for the next.

[webideasonline]

Empathy is definitely something that has to be learned to be executed tactfully or it appears fake. (which our empathy for someone shouldn't be fake anyway)

Use of stories to show empathy and understanding is the most powerful.

[art72]

Originally Posted by webideasonline

)Use of stories to show empathy and understanding is the most powerful.

^^^Music can easily confirm thee above^^^

From "Amazing Grace" to Metallica's "Sanitarium" millions relate to the emotion, fear, and experience...sadly many get lost in the translation and assume empathy (like admitting fault is a weakness) - I choose to believe other-wise

PS- Now imagine, a world which often shuns someone with an 8th grade education like myself; for the degrees I hold dearest are of the experience, not the recital. For if such judgement held weight, we'd all be late for the dance!

[Alex Cohen]

Give a hungry homeless person a sandwich; it solves their problem momentarily....give them seeds, the tools to harvest, and point them towards rich soil; change their life forever and probably more!

One of the things you quickly learn in marketing/copywriting is...

Most people don't want to learn how to fish. They want the fish handed to them. And they want it quickly and for free.

Alex

[Carl Fridsjö]

Empathy in itself might not be a persuasive tool but however taking the blame away, saying "it's not your fault" is a persuasive tool.

[janet444]

I'm surprised anyone here would argue with what Alex is saying. Good copywriting always offers at least one benefit. Not a feature, but a benefit. The best benefits hit someone emotionally. If you can't empathize with the feelings they have about the problem they need to solve (the one addressed in the copywriting, of course), how can you expect to connect with them?

I suppose in some of the hyperactive make-a-million-dollars sales letters, you need only connect with the excitement of making far more money than you need.

For most topics, though, imho empathy is essential.

Janet

[ThomasOMalley]

Alex is absolutely correct on the importance of empathy in copy.

If you don't understand your prospect's feelings and emotions, your copy will probably fail.

I can't believe it either that people would argue about this point.

But again I'm sure there's a forum where people argue whether two plus two equals four...LOLOL.

[Anthony Phillips]

Showing that you started in the same place as them is highly effective way to get them on your side and into their paypal account!

Anthony

[art72]

Originally Posted by Alex Cohen

One of the things you quickly learn in marketing/copywriting is...

Most people don't want to learn how to fish. They want the fish handed to them. And they want it quickly and for free.

Alex

Sadly, this is true.

I have been split testing ads (mind you im still learning) and without question the ads that imply; "easiest money you'll ever earn" -vs- "marketing reps wanted" ...the latter received 50% less hits!

No argument here, I empathize for those who think there's some magic pill, potion, or get rich quick solution. Naturally, I want to equip, educate, and edify those serious about internet marketing without having to bs people....evenstill, it seems embellishing and over-dramatizing has made it hard to compete in this industry.


I told my wife; " The hardest thing to sell in todays world; is the TRUTH! -Selling bs almost appears to have a better return!"

[ewenmack]

Here's a grizzled veterans take on the whole subject, hot off the printing press too...

How To Communicate With Humans | The RANT

Best,
Ewen

[Alex Ceskavich]

My point is pretty simple: Empathy in itself has no effect on how many sales you're going to make.

It doesn't DO anything.

Yet you'll hear people scream "Empathize! Repent and you'll get more sales!" the same way it makes logical sense to TELL the woman you like how kind and nice you are...

... So she'll let you into her panties.

What? You thought telling your customers you know what they're going through was going to make you a sale?

Or that understanding where they're coming from does anything on it's own? That it has it's own value?

Sorry, you've been duped.

Empathy, itself, deserves no place in your sales letter. And SHOWING Empathy is similar to SHOWING your date a fat stack of bills... because women are attracted to rich men, right?

My point is simply this: Empathy works in the background. Underground. And behind the scenes.

Empathy guides you towards structure, strategy and benefit selection.

So telling people to "focus on Empathy" is similar to telling people to "focus on Strategy." The correct answer is "Why," not "How."

The question is "Why be empathic? What do you want to accomplish with the knowledge you gain about your prospect?"

Janet made a pretty good point about using Empathy to select your lead benefit. That's golden.

Empathy can also be used to structure your sales arguments, claims or benefits so they'll be easily accepted by your prospect. Eugene Schwartz called this "Generalization."

Empathy can also be used to structure your campaign, or select your mechanism, based on your UNDERSTANDING of your prospect's other ways to fulfill his desire. (For example: Instead of spending money on internet dating or internet profiles, he could buy himself a new jacket... or new shoes... with the goal of fulfilling the same desire - sex)

It is a tool you use to accomplish any of the goals you set for yourself as a copywriter. The goals which lead you directly to the sale. It should not be one of those goals, in itself.

Because simply coming out and saying, "I understand you. I get you. We're brothers, you and me. We're one of a kind." won't get you ANYTHING in today's hyper-skeptical market.

Except for a weird look, while people shuffle past you.

That's my 2 cents on Empathy.

- Alex

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by Alex Ceskavich

It is a tool you use to accomplish any of the goals you set for yourself as a copywriter. The goals which lead you directly to the sale. It should not be one of those goals, in itself.

Because simply coming out and saying, "I understand you. I get you. We're brothers, you and me. We're one of a kind." won't get you ANYTHING in today's hyper-skeptical market.

Except for a weird look, while people shuffle past you.

That's my 2 cents on Empathy.

- Alex

I agree 100% with Alex. Empathy is a tool that has be used in the background or in conjuction with other copywriting tactics.

And there are times you can write copy that converts very well without showing the reader empathy.

For example, some of the best selling IM niche salesletters use zero empathy in their copy. They're focused strictly on "use this and make a ton of money." and hitting the reader's greed gland hard.

Take care,

Mike

[Ken_Caudill]

Empathy shows itself in tone. The reader feels that the writer is genuinely concerned and understands her problem. I'm not sure it can be taught. Alex is dead on.

[MikeHumphreys]

In some cases the copywriter can't empathize with the targeted prospect.

If a female copywriter is writing a salesletter aimed at men suffering from erectile dysfunction... can she have empathy?

If a male copywriter is writing a salesletter aimed at women suffering from a yeast infection... can he have empathy?

If a copywriter who is decades away from retirement and financial independence... can they have emphathy with someone in their mid-60's who is looking at retirement in a very short time?

No way in all three cases.

They haven't had the same personal experience. They can't even vicariously experience the same feelings. In the first two examples I gave, it's impossible for them to personally experience the same thing.

So they rely other feelings like sympathy, anger, greed, etc. instead.

A lot of people confuse empathy and sympathy (I used to) because they're very similar but they are completely different animals.

According to Dictionary.com (bolding is my emphasis) empathy is "the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another."

Same source... sympathy is "the fact or power of sharing the feelings of another, especially in sorrow or trouble; fellow feeling, compassion, or commiseration."

As for the idea that you can't write a winning salesletter without using empathy... here's a link to Martin Conroy's Wall Street Journal salesletter which produced over 1 Billion Dollars in sales for the Wall Street Journal.

Copywriting: Wall Street Journal Letter

Show me anywhere in that two page letter where empathy is being used.

My 3 cents,

Mike

[Ken_Caudill]

There are successful ads that show no empathy at all. There's no doubt about that.

The classic WSJ sales letter isn't one of them. (That is, if it's the two young men letter. The link doesn't work for me.) Reading it, there is no doubt that the writer knows and understands the wants and needs of an up and coming business man. As I said, it's a matter of tone.

Empathy in writing is a subtle thing and difficult to define. It's like porn. You know it when you see it.

[vip-ip]

I agree that empathy is important, but it has to have exigence, as well. If you're empathetic at the wrong time (e.g., pregnancy-related book being pitched to a mother of a 1-year old), you won't sell. If you're empathetic at the wrong pace (e.g., your sales copy seems "too good to be true" 10 seconds into reading it, and the "I've been there before" sounds too fake), you won't sell. Timing and pace are of the essence with any rhetorical appeal, but with such an emotional thing like empathy, I think it's of most importance.

Best Regards,
vip-ip ...

[ewenmack]

Adding to Mike's examples of successful ads that show no empathy...there are straight
forward offers in small display ads and in classified ads. No empathy in them.

Example of one that has been going for, some say, 50 odd years

------------------------------------------
"Corns Gone In 8 Days Or Your Money Back"
------------------------------------------

You can have empathy and understanding of your target audience by giving them the exact thing they want...without displaying it.

In fact, by getting to the point of your offer fast, it indirectly displays your empathy for them because you are not wasting their time.

Like all ingredients in the mix, the cook has to know when to use and when not to use each one.

And empathy is just an ingredient.

Best,
Ewen

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

There are successful ads that show no empathy at all. There's no doubt about that.

The classic WSJ sales letter isn't one of them. (That is, if it's the two young men letter. The link doesn't work for me.) Reading it, there is no doubt that the writer knows and understands the wants and needs of an up and coming business man. As I said, it's a matter of tone.

Well, I think we're going to agree to disagree on the classic WSJ letter.

Tone is a completely different copywriting animal than empathy, sympathy, or any of the other emotions we've tossed around in this thread. Tone is frequently based on what will resonate with the target market. (i.e. you wouldn't talk to electric guitar maniacs the same way you'd talk to avid golfers.)

The tone of the WSJ letter is definitely a soft-sell... very professionally polite (two of the biggest reasons to study this piece IMHO because Martin Conroy really nailed it on soft-selling the subscription).

But nowhere is he saying he relates to either of the two young men. Nowhere does he say "I'm just like you" or "I've been where you're at now."

I consider the two young men references to be more of an allegory of what could happen to your career if you don't subscribe to WSJ.

Empathy in writing is a subtle thing and difficult to define. It's like porn. You know it when you see it.

I agree. That's why I don't understand why the OP would say something subtle and difficult to define is a "crucal element of any sales letter"... especially when we can point to examples in a variety of niches where no empathy is expressed in the copy.

Mike

[RickDuris]

Question: Do you think acknowledging the prospect's appreciation of hype in copy in the IM or Biz Opp markets is an example of empathy with the market?

Why or why not?

- Rick Duris

PS: One additional question, do you think in order to empathize with the market, it's ok to break some well established rules of copywriting?

For instance, if you were selling into the mercenary market, would you intentionally swear in order to use the "right word", empathy-wise?

Or if you were selling to university college professors who are known for writing long paragraphs and using $5 and $10 words, would you match format and language, empathy-wise?

[Alex Ceskavich]

Great work on this thread, btw. Mike, Ewen, Ken and vip - you've been killing it.

As for your question Rick, I think it was Ewen who posted the b100dvd letter a little while ago. And he acknowledges hype in his own way. Yet the thing is really a masterpiece.

But from my point of view, the way to handle "overhyping" is movement towards a new stage in the market. Like in Breakthrough Advertising - using a new mechanism to make the hype seem real again.

That's just how I'd approach it, anyways.

- Alex

[Nostrildamus]

Brilliant. Erm, you don't NEED empathy to convince someone to buy stuff. But you're off to a pretty strong start, friends. Empathy is home. It's where we want to be. If you can take someone there they're all ears..hmm?

[adamlantelme]

"You can't write if you can't cry."

[Nostrildamus]

Originally Posted by adamlantelme

"You can't write if you can't cry."

nice one, adam.

[Cam Connor]

Honestly, getting into the "Frame of Mind" of your prospects is very important. If that's how you'd define empathy, then yes empathy is important...

However, I think "stepping into the shoes" of someone and empathy are two somewhat different things... I would define empathy as "feeling" what another feels, and getting into the frame of mind as "experiencing" what they're experiencing. Subtle distinction, but one that makes all the difference.

For example, someone loses their friend to cancer, they feel "sad", if you feel empathy, you feel sad to, but sadness is just a raw emotion, a lot of people feel sad over a ton of different things, so it's really just the DEGREE of sadness that you feel that matters, the rest stays the same... for me the most part, sadness is sadness.

Now if you feel sad because they feel sad, you're empathic, but you still haven't "stepped into their shoes"... you can't feel exactly what they're experiencing. The only way you can fee exactly what they're experiencing is if you step into their shoes, and experience it for yourself... or if you've had a similar situation happen to you, you might be able to understand what they're feeling, without closing your eyes and experiencing it for yourself. The key word here is experience... to experience something mentally, and to feel the same emotions that another person is feeling are two different things...

You want to take more of a "spectator's" stance... getting into the frame-of-mind, you want to experience what they're experiencing (your target audience), but not necessarily feel the same raw emotions. The emotions can cloud your vision. You're more unemotionally, intelligently, and logically coming to an understanding of what they're experiencing right now, and drawing conclusions about their wants, needs, and desires based on that data.

For example, let's take a guy like David DeAngelo A.K.A Eben Pagan... Eben made a fortune selling tons of products that teaches men how to be more successful with women. How did he do it? Did he walk around asking girls how they felt about guys and stuff, and then tried to feel what they feel? Hell no, because women don't really even logically understand what triggers attraction in them... that's why when you ask a woman what she wants in a guy, you'll often get an answer like, "uh.. a nice guy, smart, funny, confident", etc. And even though they may want these things on some level, this isn't the kinda stuff that makes them feel a raw (let's hook up in the bathroom) type of attraction for a guy. Confidence maybe a little, but the rest of those qualities are just qualities that a woman wants on her stereotypical "Prince Charming" kind of guy, on top of all the other qualities she REALLY wants (which she can't verbalize of course, because she can't pinpoint them).

My point here is that to learn how a woman feels attraction for a man, is a lot like being on the outside and looking in. You don't just feel "empathy" and understand how to be a ladies man, that's why David D had to go and learn from the top guys who we're already good at learning how to get chicks, so he could experience the mindset and beliefs of these guys, and how they behaved accordingly... Feeling empathy for women would only make him gay. j/k... but seriously, experiencing and getting into the Frame of Mind of your prospective buyers to understand what will trigger their buying hot buttons is a lot more effective than just trying to get all emotional about how they feel.

That's the distinction that I've tried to impart in this thread... Feeling vs. Experiencing... one makes you emotional, the other tells you what your target audience will respond to.

[Joe Ditzel]

I liked John Carlton's take on empathy in this post:
How To Be A Sap. | The RANT

Here is a snippet:
This extra dose of emotion is no accident. You cannot be a good writer without empathy — without understanding, personally, what it’s like to feel everything humans are capable of feeling.


At full strength, too. The industrial-quality stuff.


The intensity of your ability to feel infuses your writing with power, and a connection to the most complex tragedies, comedies and dramas of human interaction.

[Ken_Caudill]

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

Well, I think we're going to agree to disagree on the classic WSJ letter.

Tone is a completely different copywriting animal than empathy, sympathy, or any of the other emotions we've tossed around in this thread. Tone is frequently based on what will resonate with the target market. (i.e. you wouldn't talk to electric guitar maniacs the same way you'd talk to avid golfers.)

The tone of the WSJ letter is definitely a soft-sell... very professionally polite (two of the biggest reasons to study this piece IMHO because Martin Conroy really nailed it on soft-selling the subscription).

But nowhere is he saying he relates to either of the two young men. Nowhere does he say "I'm just like you" or "I've been where you're at now."

I consider the two young men references to be more of an allegory of what could happen to your career if you don't subscribe to WSJ.



I agree. That's why I don't understand why the OP would say something subtle and difficult to define is a "crucal element of any sales letter"... especially when we can point to examples in a variety of niches where no empathy is expressed in the copy.

Mike

Who tells you these things? There are simply things you cannot quantify, try as you might. What the writer intends often isn't what the reader comprehends. It's not always the fault of the writer, either.

There are readers who just flat don't get it.

Sometimes what is unsaid is more important than what is said. That's why tone and empathy can't be taught. What you imply can be more important than what you state.

There are limits to concrete techniques.

The WSJ letter applies consultative techniques from an obviously empathic writer.

I don't see how anyone can miss that.

[Alex Cohen]

Originally Posted by Joe Ditzel

I liked John Carlton's take on empathy in this post:
How To Be A Sap. | The RANT

Here is a snippet:
This extra dose of emotion is no accident. You cannot be a good writer without empathy — without understanding, personally, what it’s like to feel everything humans are capable of feeling.


At full strength, too. The industrial-quality stuff.


The intensity of your ability to feel infuses your writing with power, and a connection to the most complex tragedies, comedies and dramas of human interaction.

I didn't. I thought it was one of his weaker blog posts.

Alex

[RobCopywriter]

I tend to agree. You need empathy because when you're selling something, you're not selling the features. You're selling to their needs and wants.