this can't be selling...

[schttrj]

Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi

I opted in just to get my hands on his ebook "How to Copywrite Right" so I can learn to write headlines like this doozy -

Attention, all "hungry" internet marketers:
Are You Ready To Hear The TRUTH Yet Again?!

Words SELL for GOLD!
It doesn't take a genius to know that Copywriting is THAT Secret to Online Marketing Success, and who makes it possible? Your Beloved Copywriter!

Remember campers - The E stands for Extra - Engaging, Error-Free & Effective...

Are you in this thread ONLY for criticizing OR for helping? Take your pick.

And okay, here's something for you. Go ahead and make it better. Trust me, I will change the write-up and post yours.

Say what to that? I am open to learning something new from you.

[RickDuris]

Originally Posted by schttrj

By the way, please don't mind my saying this...

Your Copy-ranger website rather looks unconvincing...and the voice in your audio is weak and dissatisfying.

You should make it even better if that is your source of referrals.

Hi schttrj,

Appreciate the feedback. Thank you for being curious enough to click through to it.

But there is much more going on in there than meets the eye and the ear.

There are multiple strategy and copywriting lessons in there, if one is astute enough to really study it.

I'm not going into details. Not my style. But just let's say THAT website convinces Clients and Partners who ARE the *PERFECT* Clients and Partners for me.

So when you say it's unconvincing? It just means one thing: You're not in my target market.

And that's quite ok. No problem with that--at all.

And as for my voice? It's MY voice. And I'm keeping it. Think I'm gonna hire some voice over guy? You gotta be kidding me.

It's funny you say that though because Clients tell me they want me to do the voice overs once I have the copy written. So I most be doing something right.

- Rick Duris


PS: Thanks to all who stick up for me. You know who you are. It's appreciated beyond measure. You know that.

PPS: And if it so unconvincing, why has it been ripped off three times in the last 18 months?

Something to think about.

[schttrj]

Originally Posted by RickDuris

Hi schttrj,

Appreciate the feedback. Thank you for being curious enough to click through to it.

But there is much more going on in there than meets the eye and the ear.

There are multiple strategy and copywriting lessons in there, if one is astute enough to really study it.

I'm not going into details. Not my style. But just let's say THAT website convinces Clients and Partners who ARE the *PERFECT* Clients and Partners for me.

So when you say it's unconvincing? It just means one thing: You're not in my target market.

And that's quite ok. No problem with that--at all.

And as for my voice? It's MY voice. And I'm keeping it. Think I'm gonna hire some voice over guy? You gotta be kidding me.

It's funny you say that though because Clients tell me they want me to do the voice overs once I have the copy written. So I most be doing something right.

- Rick Duris


PS: Thanks to all who stick up for me. You know who you are. It's appreciated beyond measure. You know that.

PPS: And if it so unconvincing, why has it been ripped off three times in the last 18 months?

Something to think about.

Yes Rick, results is what matters!

[Daniel Scott]

Originally Posted by The Copy Nazi

Nope. I hate it. And, to paraphrase Vin's comment, I'm a much better writer than this.

My bad. I'm glad you said it reminded you of GoClickCash though, because that's where I drew the correlation.

Interesting GCC sold so well, because this is #1 on CB at the moment (as a sharp friend of mine pointed out). And that's a sales page I personally think is pretty poorly written.

Obviously... I haven't looked into the guy's traffic sources... relationships... or pre-launch. So that could have a massive impact on things.

And while I could be wrong... I think saying you own an island when you don't could get the FTC on your ass. Then again, maybe he owns it, I don't know... but I'm personally doubting it.

Which brings me to my next point... If you're in this game for short-term cash... it's easy to get.

Just make a heap of blatant lies on your sales page.

Moral/ethical issues aside, however, I believe your refunds would be huge. Be interesting to see how much cash these guys actually make after all is said and done.

I also believe tactics like this severely limit long-term earning potential, but that's a story for another day. Not that I have proof of that one way or the other... just a reasonable logical deduction. At least from my perspective.

In any case... apologies Mal.

-Daniel

[Mark Andrews]

Originally Posted by schttrj

Are you in this thread ONLY for criticizing OR for helping? Take your pick.

And okay, here's something for you. Go ahead and make it better. Trust me, I will change the write-up and post yours.

Say what to that? I am open to learning something new from you.

A little tip for you my friend...

You might want to do your research first before openly criticising other copywriters here.

Throwing down the gauntlet to the Copy Nazi - Malcolm Lambe for example isn't a good idea. Mal is one hell of an experienced copywriter and his headline writing skills will knock most other copywriters for six.

Mal has proven his skills over and over again working with many top marketers.

Can you lay claim to the same pedigree? (Rhetorical question)

Same goes for Rick Duris, criticising his sales copy, calling it 'unconvincing' etc. Essentially all you're doing is trying inadvertently or otherwise to damage his reputation.

As Rick pointed out, something which is fairly obvious to most professional copywriters... his sales copy is working on several different layers all at the same time to connect with his total audience and target market.

That takes some doing believe you me. The sales letter isn't everything it seems to be. There's a fair bit of NLP being used in there, that's neuro linguistic programming to you and I. Embedded commands etc.

It's looks soft and fuzzy to the untrained eye but for his target market it's hitting on their emotional subconscious buttons very strongly.

The same goes with his voice. Yes he's got a bit of an 'odd voice' but then a lot of us have 'odd' voices and accents, myself included. It's how God made us and who are we to argue with Him?

Let me tell you something - allow me to share something with you...

You might be surprised to know just how much money this section of the Warrior Forum, these very copywriters, the real professionals in here generate for their clients.

We're talking millions of dollars.

Do your own diligence and research. I know every top copywriter in this section and can discern between the real pro's and the many pretenders who wash up in this section of the forum from time to time. They come and go like flies and it's always the same pattern...

They hang around for a week or two, a month or so maybe, take a jab here, a jab there, criticise, run down and generally speaking become a major pain in the butt and then disappear again because they really don't understand what they're trying to chew off.

And believe me when I say this, most of the real copy pro's here they could eat 99.9% of these characters for breakfast. The only reason they often won't bite is precisely because they can't be bothered to expend a waste of energy and time on these individuals. They've seen this pattern of behaviour a hundred times over.

If you want to get a real grip on the copywriting skillset and demonstrate this in your own copywriting business you'll pay careful heed to a few of these guys you're currently knocking.

As Rick succinctly pointed out... you are not his target market. Which is why his sales copy in particular is not resonating within your subconscious mind. Hence the importance of putting yourself (through empathy) into the shoes of somebody else as a fellow copywriter.

Journey well...


Pete Walker

[Matthew Shelton]

Originally Posted by John_S

...

Wait. Wait. I still have the template letter this is based on. At least the template has 'photo testimonials'....

Oh that is GREAT - buy my stupid ebook!!

There is a new genre of humor growing here - IM humor
- only trouble is you pretty much have to be in IM to get it.

[Kevin Rogers]

For the record: I absolutely did NOT write this... haven't written any letters like it and never will.

Dave and Ewen are referring to the report Ben and I put out exposing this "black hat" copywriting formula and showing how to use it in a WHITE HAT way just as effectively. The way we've done for our clients.

I don't mean to shout down from my high horse here... but it bums me out when people assume we write crap like this. Over the weekend a well-known marketer I'd never met before started mouthing off about how I'm "to blame" for these type offers.

Really pissed me off.

But, I understand why it happens. I can't expect distracted marketers to pay attention to who writes what in ClickBank. There's so much garbage floating around lately it's nearly impossible to spot the legit stuff. Even marketers who spent years building respect with their lists are suddenly lying their faces off in the name of high EPCs.

Still baffles me.

And I agree with Mal that there's been ZERO indication of any new criteria to stop it since CB's little PR move announcing stiffer guidelines a few months back.

If anything, it's gotten worse. And about to get WAY worse. From the gossip I heard this weekend, there are launches being planned right now that make this ridiculous stoner hook look like child's play.

(Prepare to recalibrate your shock meter, boys and girls. The patients will have officially overtaken the asylum if this one gets through.)

But hey... the only thing we can control is our own business. We can't control what people say or think or believe. Just know which side you are on and do whatever allows you sleep at night.

And be prepared.

[Rushmore LLC]

People in the IM niche are just like those in any other, in that of course, a certain percentage are stupid.

But mostly they are desperate, and curious. I'm tempted by a lot of this crap just because I want to see how many outright lies I can find on a sales page or video, as opposed to what's in the actual product. I used to buy based solely on this curiosity because it was so easy to refund with Clickbank.

I've stopped doing that now because Clickbank is now allowing all these bozos with products that don't live up to the sales page in the least, to switch refund requests to "technical difficulty" requests where they basically attempt to string you along past the 60 day deadline. If you call Clickbank directly they will refund you immediately, but it's become too much of a pain.

Too bad, because if anyone ever sells a great IM product on Clickbank I'll never see it/buy it. The first thing I do now when I see a pitch page is click the order button. If it takes me to Clickbank I'm out. They will allow anything to be sold on their platform. It's obvious there is absolutely no one verifying sales page claims against the actual products.

[cypherslock]

Personally, Rick, I like the way you've done the site. It puts the focus on your voice message. Which is hypnotic and calming. Well done.

[art72]

Wow...

Chronic Commissions =1.5 million in 8 days according to cbengine[dot]com...holy mother of god, that's phenomenal!

art72 "At the end of the day, the only difference between his approach and every other sales letter out there was "if a homeless stoner can do it so can you!" - and you can bet people will buy it."

Perhaps, I under-estimated it

Never did I imagine #1 on CB, and raking in 1.5 million in 8 days!

Definitely a lesson to be learned here, and I may change my status on the initial thought it wasn't for me!)

Might I add, writing is my passion, a hobby in which I can only pray reaches the level of some of the "professional" copywriters within this thread!

[Daniel Scott]

Originally Posted by art72

Wow...

Chronic Commissions =1.5 million in 8 days according to cbengine[dot]com...holy mother of god, that's phenomenal!

Perhaps, I under-estimated it

Never did I imagine #1 on CB, and raking in 1.5 million in 8 days!

Definitely a lesson to be learned here, and I may change my status on the initial thought it wasn't for me!)

Might I add, writing is my passion, a hobby in which I can only pray reaches the level of some of the "professional" copywriters within this thread!

Take off at least 50% for refunds...

Pay 75% to affiliates...

Give away $50k+ on expenses and prizes...

And you get a better picture of what those big launches actually make.

Now... if they keep reeling in customers month after month... that's a different story.

But most are just "slash n burn" events.

-Daniel

[art72]

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

Take off at least 50% for refunds...

Pay 75% to affiliates...

Give away $50k+ on expenses and prizes...

And you get a better picture of what those big launches actually make.

Now... if they keep reeling in customers month after month... that's a different story.

But most are just "slash n burn" events.

-Daniel

Not to argue the fact, the numbers will likely fade as time reveals the hidden details of "most' launches, including this one.

However, even so...

50% of $1.5 Million is still $750k in 8 days! (*If the return rate is as high as you project, which seems extremely high)

Minus 75% to affiliates = $562,500 in paid affiliate commissions (*generous)

Leaving $187,500 before creation and expense reimbursement, minus another $50k

Estimated Profit 8 Days (even according to your breakdown) = $137,000...

Hell I don't know about you, but I damn sure ain't making $17,125 per day!

Still respectable numbers IMHO

[Daniel Scott]

Originally Posted by art72

Not to argue the fact, the numbers will likely fade as time reveals the hidden details of "most' launches, including this one.

However, even so...

50% of $1.5 Million is still $750k in 8 days! (*If the return rate is as high as you project, which seems extremely high)

Minus 75% to affiliates = $562,500 in paid affiliate commissions (*generous)

Leaving $187,500 before creation and expense reimbursement, minus another $50k

Estimated Profit 8 Days (even according to your breakdown) = $137,000...

Hell I don't know about you, but I damn sure ain't making $17,125 per day!

Still respectable numbers IMHO

actually... based on figures I've heard lately... 50% is about right.... maybe even a little low.

Affiliates usually get paid 75%... at least in the launches I've known of/been involved in.

Plus... these launches take a lot of time and energy to set up... at least a couple of months.

Look... I'm not saying it's bad for a couple of months' work...

But I think you're underestimating the time and effort that goes into these things.

-Daniel

[kellyburdes]

The 8 days is only the amount of time that the shopping cart was open.

Everyone loves to talk about "million dollar days" and things like this, but that is not the reality of a launch.

The reality is that your launch, if it's any good, takes between 2 and 4 months of pretty good, solid work to setup. The part where the cart is open is only what you see - but it's really just a small part of the overall picture.

Originally Posted by art72

Not to argue the fact, the numbers will likely fade as time reveals the hidden details of "most' launches, including this one.

However, even so...

50% of $1.5 Million is still $750k in 8 days! (*If the return rate is as high as you project, which seems extremely high)

Minus 75% to affiliates = $562,500 in paid affiliate commissions (*generous)

Leaving $187,500 before creation and expense reimbursement, minus another $50k

Estimated Profit 8 Days (even according to your breakdown) = $137,000...

Hell I don't know about you, but I damn sure ain't making $17,125 per day!

Still respectable numbers IMHO

[DH5]

Another possible lesson... never underestimate the power of a good story? A good idea to be able to back it up with solid value though.

[jasondinner]

These guys make most of their money in the backend.

I'm not sure exactly what they're doing in theirs as I'm not a customer, but I would imagine they are pushing hosting which pays commissions anywhere from $75 -$125 per new referral.

Even if just 10% of their buyers get hosting based on their recommendation. What's 10% of say 5000 customers. Then multiply that buy $100 commission and that leaves them with another $50K they dont have to share with affiliates.

I'm guessing they probably moved close to 10K units (or more).

Now add any cross selling of other related products they have in their members area.

And let's not forget about the list of buyers and prospects they just built.

They probably don't care all that much about their profit margin in the front end bc they know most of their money will be made after the sale.

- Jason

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

actually... based on figures I've heard lately... 50% is about right.... maybe even a little low.

Affiliates usually get paid 75%... at least in the launches I've known of/been involved in.

Plus... these launches take a lot of time and energy to set up... at least a couple of months.

Look... I'm not saying it's bad for a couple of months' work...

But I think you're underestimating the time and effort that goes into these things.

-Daniel

[MontelloMarketing]

Check your math Jason.

[kellyburdes]

In this particular model the relationship your building is not with your customers.

How can you build a solid relationship with someone when it's built on deception and bull**** right from the start? Well, you can't.

In this particular model the "customer" as these guys see it, and the relationships they put time into is the relationship they have with the major JV partners they have for their launches.

Most people coming onto the list of this type of product end up pissed off at the seller very quickly and not trusting them. Why do you think that they hire actors and create new pen names for every single launch, even though it's the same 30 or 40 guys doing most of them?

Originally Posted by jasondinner

These guys make most of their money in the backend.

I'm not sure exactly what they're doing in theirs as I'm not a customer, but I would imagine they are pushing hosting which pays commissions anywhere from $75 -$125 per new referral.

Even if just 10% of their buyers get hosting based on their recommendation. What's 10% of say 5000 customers. Then multiply that buy $100 commission and that leaves them with another $50K they dont have to share with affiliates.

I'm guessing they probably moved close to 10K units (or more).

Now add any cross selling of other related products they have in their members area.

And let's not forget about the list of buyers and prospects they just built.

They probably don't care all that much about their profit margin in the front end bc they know most of their money will be made after the sale.

- Jason

[jasondinner]

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

Check your math Jason.

where did i mess up? I was guestimating anyway :P

Doesn't 500 * 100 = 50K?

[jasondinner]

Kelly

I was only talking about the revenue aspect of this product, not the ethics of how it was positioned

But at the same time, with respect to the list, they will probably squeeze as much profit out of it as they can before it's completely worthless, then rinse and repeat.

Originally Posted by kellyburdes

In this particular model the relationship your building is not with your customers.

How can you build a solid relationship with someone when it's built on deception and bull**** right from the start? Well, you can't.

In this particular model the "customer" as these guys see it, and the relationships they put time into is the relationship they have with the major JV partners they have for their launches.

Most people coming onto the list of this type of product end up pissed off at the seller very quickly and not trusting them. Why do you think that they hire actors and create new pen names for every single launch, even though it's the same 30 or 40 guys doing most of them?

[MontelloMarketing]

Actually Jason... it was my math that was off.

[kellyburdes]

I'm not passing an ethical judgement on it either.

I'm in the financial niche and so I have talked to several of the guys who are putting out the "push button profits" type products in the IM space because a large number of them are also major players in the Forex niche.

I'm not in the Forex niche because I don't believe it's a market where the average person has any hope of making a profit long term, but what I do crosses very nicely with it, so many of them have been my affiliates, and I've gotten to know several of them at events etc.

When I have talked to them most have made it pretty clear that they do not see the people on their list as customers. The relationship they care about and put effort into is the relationships with other list owners.

They understand that the vast majority of the people who buy the products they sell are not serious. How do they know these people are not serious? Because no serious person believes in something for nothing. A serious person understands that if your going to make a lot of money, you most generally have to follow the path of others who have made a lot of money - and that usually includes a lot of hard work.

They understand that for the most part the people buying their products are lazy dreamers who will not accomplish anything, and will not be in the market for a long time. Obviously they try to squeeze every last bit of profit out of them that they can, but to them the "money is in the list" only in so much as it allows them to continue to be top JV/Affiliates for other people in the group, so they will continue to promote for them.

Originally Posted by jasondinner

Kelly

I was only talking about the revenue aspect of this product, not the ethics of how it was positioned

[art72]

Originally Posted by kellyburdes

The 8 days is only the amount of time that the shopping cart was open.

Everyone loves to talk about "million dollar days" and things like this, but that is not the reality of a launch.

The reality is that your launch, if it's any good, takes between 2 and 4 months of pretty good, solid work to setup. The part where the cart is open is only what you see - but it's really just a small part of the overall picture.

kelly, without question I understand the bigger picture, and agree the work before hand was the end result of the initial sales.

There too, I would like to agree with jason that the real money is on the back end, as from what I've gathered they require you to buy paid traffic up-sells and more for it to actually work.

While I am not going to argue that these methods are not the most ethical, they do capitalize on the large marjority of consumers who foolishly believe; they can turn their computer on and it will just spit out hundred dollars bills!

Naturally, they did a ton of work gathering their jv guru's to push this thing, and while I laughed my ass off at the sales copy, it was actually written rather well, as it obviously triggered a 2 Million dollar response.

Perhaps the dilemma we all face is the realization; everyone wants everything for nothing. Far and few between do I see people who enter the internet marketing arena mentally prepared for the learning curve and ready to grind it out and do the work. (I was ignorant to internet marketing 6 months ago, and have since learned a great deal from my malformed analogies, and respect those who endure it )

As for me, I lean toward the long term, and prefer to market ethical products that deliver what they offer.

However, it almost appears every guru from Ewen to Kern and several others will sell almost anything to anyone, and appear to live by the sayings; carpe diem (seize the day) and Caveat emptor (let the buyer beware!)

Are they wrong?

Mind you, I actually do have a conscience, and at times I wonder; "Is it a blessing or a curse?"

Especially, when a large portion of those whom explore internet marketing insult many of us with the ignorant notion; there's no work, sweat, or intelligence required...sure, I could see myself justifying selling this, but I haven't as of yet!

If I do decide to market Chronic Commissions, it would be based solely on the bias; "Give the people what they want!"

After all, there are plenty of items on the grocery store shelves I personally do not use, buy, consume, or want...

But...if we are looking to break into a 'bigger mindset' like that of Walmart, we'll have to sell junk we'd never buy, right?

Just a thought

Art

[art72]

Originally Posted by kellyburdes

I'm not passing an ethical judgement on it either.

I'm in the financial niche and so I have talked to several of the guys who are putting out the "push button profits" type products in the IM space because a large number of them are also major players in the Forex niche.

I'm not in the Forex niche because I don't believe it's a market where the average person has any hope of making a profit long term, but what I do crosses very nicely with it, so many of them have been my affiliates, and I've gotten to know several of them at events etc.

When I have talked to them most have made it pretty clear that they do not see the people on their list as customers. The relationship they care about and put effort into is the relationships with other list owners.

They understand that the vast majority of the people who buy the products they sell are not serious. How do they know these people are not serious? Because no serious person believes in something for nothing. A serious person understands that if your going to make a lot of money, you most generally have to follow the path of others who have made a lot of money - and that usually includes a lot of hard work.

They understand that for the most part the people buying their products are lazy dreamers who will not accomplish anything, and will not be in the market for a long time. Obviously they try to squeeze every last bit of profit out of them that they can, but to them the "money is in the list" only in so much as it allows them to continue to be top JV/Affiliates for other people in the group, so they will continue to promote for them.

Exactly!!!

I didn't read this before I posted the previous post but you "Nailed it" on the head, and confirmed what I was trying to convey.

Art

[kellyburdes]

I'm not in the IM space, so it's not a choice I'll have to make with this particular promotion - but here would be my thought process if I had a list and Chronic Commission, or a similar product came to me.

What's in it for me?

Here most people take the short term view and look at the commissions they will generate by selling a highly converting product.

I would not take that view. There are plenty of other (and much better products) offers I could send them to for a commission.

So, what's it it for me?

It's give and take. By mailing such an obvious crapper of a product I'm going to lose people on my list - people I've spent a good deal of time, effort and money to acquire, so I better be getting something of greater or equal value in return.

For me, the ONLY thing that would be is a relationship.

Everyone knew this was going to be a pretty big launch. If I had a reasonable expectation that I could get into the top 10 or 15 on the JV Board I might be willing to promote, but it would have nothing to do with the commissions I'd be getting.

It would have everything to do with getting my name out there, with letting other partners know I was a player and can drive sales, with the idea being that they will promote for me in the future in the hope that I will do the same for them.

That's how I would look at this type of product launch, and I wouldn't do very many of them - and I'd offer a bonus worth 3 to 5 times the price of the product - very similar to some of the bonus stuff Kelly Felix puts together when he's promoting stuff it seems like he thinks might be bunkus.

Sometimes you have to promote for someone - that's just the nature of the business end of this business, I understand that.

Originally Posted by art72

If I do decide to market Chronic Commissions, it would be based solely on the bias; "Give the people what they want!"


Art

[art72]

Originally Posted by kellyburdes

I'm not in the IM space, so it's not a choice I'll have to make with this particular promotion - but here would be my thought process if I had a list and Chronic Commission, or a similar product came to me.

What's in it for me?

Here most people take the short term view and look at the commissions they will generate by selling a highly converting product.

I would not take that view. There are plenty of other (and much better products) offers I could send them to for a commission.

So, what's it it for me?

It's give and take. By mailing such an obvious crapper of a product I'm going to lose people on my list - people I've spent a good deal of time, effort and money to acquire, so I better be getting something of greater or equal value in return.

For me, the ONLY thing that would be is a relationship.

Everyone knew this was going to be a pretty big launch. If I had a reasonable expectation that I could get into the top 10 or 15 on the JV Board I might be willing to promote, but it would have nothing to do with the commissions I'd be getting.

It would have everything to do with getting my name out there, with letting other partners know I was a player and can drive sales, with the idea being that they will promote for me in the future in the hope that I will do the same for them.

That's how I would look at this type of product launch, and I wouldn't do very many of them - and I'd offer a bonus worth 3 to 5 times the price of the product - very similar to some of the bonus stuff Kelly Felix puts together when he's promoting stuff it seems like he thinks might be bunkus.

Sometimes you have to promote for someone - that's just the nature of the business end of this business, I understand that.

Thanks Kelly,

Your responses are without question formed with great insight. As I am a 'new' player in the IM game and structuring my efforts to build a solid foundation, you're right to say the focus is not necessarily on the money.

There to, I just started building my list and have less than 25 people on it to date

My method would be; investigate the products (or purchase them)... write an honest review (500-750 words) on a wp post, and post my aff links. Maybe spend a few hours throwing around some links, ads, etc..

Naturally, if I had a list worth mailing....this certainly wouldn't be the ideal candidate for a mailing IMO.

I would like to personally Thank-You again, as the manner in which you clarified 'why' the 'big players' do mail their lists with these types of offers, as it definitely opened my eyes to a blind spot.

Typically, I am often speeding by such details in an effort to acquire the proper knowledge and tools to make this journey worthwhile.

The distance between the starting line and the finish line can only be determined by ones own mental fortitude...which generally determines the end results, and which title they're willing to bare!

After being trampled a few times already, I have definitely learned to run a little faster...despite having won no titles

[Daniel Scott]

Originally Posted by kellyburdes

It would have everything to do with getting my name out there, with letting other partners know I was a player and can drive sales, with the idea being that they will promote for me in the future in the hope that I will do the same for them.

That's how I would look at this type of product launch, and I wouldn't do very many of them - and I'd offer a bonus worth 3 to 5 times the price of the product - very similar to some of the bonus stuff Kelly Felix puts together when he's promoting stuff it seems like he thinks might be bunkus.

Sometimes you have to promote for someone - that's just the nature of the business end of this business, I understand that.

One of the most brilliant posts I have read on this forum.

If more people followed advice like this I guarantee they'd see profits soar.

It's the kind of approach I advise my clients to take when they're promoting less-than-stellar offerings.

-Daniel

[kellyburdes]

Thanks Daniel - Coming from a guy such as yourself that actually means a lot.

Based upon your posts on the forum and the couple of letters I know of that you have written, I sorta stalk you around a bit like a crazy ex girlfriend...but in a nice and friendly sort of way I promise!

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

One of the most brilliant posts I have read on this forum.

If more people followed advice like this I guarantee they'd see profits soar.

It's the kind of approach I advise my clients to take when they're promoting less-than-stellar offerings.

-Daniel

[kellyburdes]

To be honest I'm not sure how well that really works.

I know people who do it, and they do "ok". Guys will make maybe 10 or 20 sales on a launch that way. Like I said, that's ok money, but I don't know of anyone who's gotten rich doing it (though I'm sure plenty have become rich selling it)

The reason I'd be very suspect of it as a method to really grow your business is that, while it's a often repeated method, it's not one you really see any of the big name guys engaging in themselves.

Often you have to play play the role of Sherlock Holmes - but the real key is in doing what they do, not what they often say.

Originally Posted by art72

My method would be; investigate the products (or purchase them)... write an honest review (500-750 words) on a wp post, and post my aff links. Maybe spend a few hours throwing around some links, ads, etc..

[Daniel Scott]

Originally Posted by kellyburdes

Thanks Daniel - Coming from a guy such as yourself that actually means a lot.

Based upon your posts on the forum and the couple of letters I know of that you have written, I sorta stalk you around a bit like a crazy ex girlfriend...but in a nice and friendly sort of way I promise!

Aw shucks.

On a related note, mind if I get your personal details so I can add you to my "stalker list" the police have? It just helps keep everything organized in one easy file.

Saves a lot of time for them.

Also... I'll be in NYC mid - late next month. If you're going to be there too (Clickbank thing, Affiliate Summit) let me know and we can catch up.

-Daniel

[BlairBarnes]

That template letter is amazing, must have made millions of dollars. Looking like Pierce can't hurt the sales either.

[kellyburdes]

Hey Daniel -

I would love to connect, I got on the WF to meet other people who are into marketing and copy.

I had not planned on going to New York, but several people have asked me about it so I'm starting to lean towards driving out for it. I live in Colorado, and for a reason I'll explain in PM to you it's very difficult for me to fly - but like I said, I'm starting to lean towards it.

Do you go to the Affiliate Summit in Las Vegas. I know you do copy in the Forex market, and the Vegas summit tends to be held the weekend before the Online Trading Show, so I hit two birds with one stone on that and will be at both of those shows.

[Daniel Scott]

Kelly,

I'll probably be heading to that one. Our summers over here are murder, so it'd be nice to spend some time in San Diego where I have a lot of cool friends.

Plus... it's only 14 hours to LA, as opposed to 24 to NYC.

So yeah.... I expect I'll be there.

Anyway... if you wanna chat before then... feel free to hit me up on Skype. Always great to connect with other serious marketers.

-Daniel

[nicnac03]

Check it out, this product has a gravity score of 700 on clickbank LOL. I'm sure 75% of those sales will be refunded but still...

[jasondinner]

OH SNAP!!! I see some Fireworks a poppin!!

Get a room guys :P hahahahahaaa

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

Kelly,

I'll probably be heading to that one. Our summers over here are murder, so it'd be nice to spend some time in San Diego where I have a lot of cool friends.

Plus... it's only 14 hours to LA, as opposed to 24 to NYC.

So yeah.... I expect I'll be there.

Anyway... if you wanna chat before then... feel free to hit me up on Skype. Always great to connect with other serious marketers.

-Daniel

Originally Posted by kellyburdes

Hey Daniel -

I would love to connect, I got on the WF to meet other people who are into marketing and copy.

I had not planned on going to New York, but several people have asked me about it so I'm starting to lean towards driving out for it. I live in Colorado, and for a reason I'll explain in PM to you it's very difficult for me to fly - but like I said, I'm starting to lean towards it.

Do you go to the Affiliate Summit in Las Vegas. I know you do copy in the Forex market, and the Vegas summit tends to be held the weekend before the Online Trading Show, so I hit two birds with one stone on that and will be at both of those shows.

[Blake King]

These days hype does tend to work. Actually, you almost HAVE to use hype in the internet marketing niche. So I'm not suprised that it's selling.

[merereilly]

But really though --- don't you say that about most of our offers out there?

I take a look at our offers everyday and wonder what type of person actually would buy into them

[kellyburdes]

The kind I described above. Just look @ the demographic and it tells you a lot about why they are buying and what.

Originally Posted by merereilly

But really though --- don't you say that about most of our offers out there?

I take a look at our offers everyday and wonder what type of person actually would buy into them

[sicnarf]

Surprisingly, hype works quite well. Consider how much hype is used for infomercials. Advertisers wouldn't be using it if it didn't work.

[MilburnMarketing]

If I clicked my mouse 5 times for this software, and 7 times with another one and 11 times with a third program...

...I'd make money....

...I'd have Repetitive Strain Injury, and could sue the product creators