Will I swim with the Sharks? Or be the next round of Chum?

[MatthewJFales]

Wow! I’ve been lurking for about six-months now I guess…followed threads by the experts – as well as the constant slew of wannabes and up-and-comers. I’ve opted to do my research instead of coming across as the needy helpless schmuck.


I’ve gone through the “Top Copywriting Books” thread and have read the following:

The Ultimate Sales Letter: Dan Kennedy
The Copywriter’s Handbook: Bob Bly
Scientific Advertising: Claude Hopkins
The Adweek Copywriting Handbook: Joseph Sugarman
Cashvertising: Drew Eric Whitman
How to turn Words into Money: Ted Nicholas
I’ve read most of the Gary Halbert letters as well, and even copied a few by hand on a yellow legal pad.

Why am I telling you this? No, I’m not looking for a pat on the back or an “attaboy” of any kind. I just want everyone to know upfront – that I have no false illusions about what this entails. And am more than willing to put in the work it takes.

Enough with the preemptive-defense – Here’s my dilemma:

I have no desire to write sales letters online. Yup, that’s right. I really want to work on the direct-mail side of things. Am I crazy? The Short Answer is obvious.


You see, it all started by writing sales letters to my existing customers (for a computer repair business I run). Since the very first mailing I’ve been hooked. There’s nothing like having a really slow day at the office – dropping a few hundred (or thousand) letters in the mail—and within 2-days, have your phone ringing off the hook. Often times this has created an almost magical momentum keeping me busy for as much as 3-months per mailing.


Can anyone else relate to this?


Sure, I could launch a WSO and get a few hundred bucks per letter, but it just doesn’t seem worth it. To me, to truly resonate with an audience, it takes so much time and research per niche. In the words of the great Dave Chappelle “I got kids to feed n**ga!”. Sure I could write a half-ass piece in 30 minutes with next to zero research but at what cost? It’s not in me to do something halfway.


Is there a huge demand for offline copywriters? I'm guessing it'll be harder to land clients initially?


Suggestions from the grizzled vets? Tips from the struggling newbies?

Do your best! Crush my spirit – Smash my dreams. =)

Seriously though, any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,


-Matt

[ARSuarez]

Nope.

I don't like writing online, either.

Here's what you do: get yourself a copy of The Directory of Major Mailers, The SRDS, and The Oxbridge Directory of Newsletters.

If you choose one (since they are all in excess of $250), I would say Major Mailers.

3 inches thick and full of companies and prospects.

Now you have huge lists of companies that do direct mail. And better yet, most of them pay direct mail writers.

Yes, it might be a little more difficult to get work. Have samples ready. But if you go to the right companies, they'll try you out and have a copy chief to work with you.

I'd go particularly for health/nutritional companies. They do a lot of offline backend marketing.

Good luck.

-Angel

[RickDuris]

Assuming you can deliver the goods, all you have to do is look at the ads in the daily newspaper or the yellow pages and you're set. Just call them and feel them out. Offer an idea or two to improve their copy or offer.

And get yourself plugged into an active Chamber of Commerce or other business networking events.

Initially, it won't be a lay down sale, but consistent follow-up will crack the code. Get them on some sort of mailing list where they can see your results and samples of your work.


- Rick Duris

[Ken_Caudill]

I like my shark barbecued.

[MatthewJFales]

Originally Posted by ARSuarez

Nope.

I don't like writing online, either.

Here's what you do: get yourself a copy of The Directory of Major Mailers, The SRDS, and The Oxbridge Directory of Newsletters.

If you choose one (since they are all in excess of $250), I would say Major Mailers.

3 inches thick and full of companies and prospects.

Now you have huge lists of companies that do direct mail. And better yet, most of them pay direct mail writers.

Yes, it might be a little more difficult to get work. Have samples ready. But if you go to the right companies, they'll try you out and have a copy chief to work with you.

I'd go particularly for health/nutritional companies. They do a lot of offline backend marketing.

Good luck.

-Angel

Thanks Angel. I just went to the library looking for the SRDS and Oxbridge...I was told they no longer carried them due to cost. I suppose I'll have to bite the bullet and spend the dough.

[MatthewJFales]

Originally Posted by RickDuris

Assuming you can deliver the goods, all you have to do is look at the ads in the daily newspaper or the yellow pages and you're set. Just call them and feel them out. Offer an idea or two to improve their copy or offer.

And get yourself plugged into an active Chamber of Commerce or other business networking events.

Initially, it won't be a lay down sale, but consistent follow-up will crack the code. Get them on some sort of mailing list where they can see your results and samples of your work.


- Rick Duris

Thanks Rick. Joining the Chamber is on my list of things to do. It's like $400 a year though. I'm guessing that's pretty common?

[MatthewJFales]

Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill

I like my shark barbecued.

I'll have to give that a try. Although I prefer my fish raw.

[RickDuris]

Originally Posted by MatthewJFales

Thanks Rick. Joining the Chamber is on my list of things to do. It's like $400 a year though. I'm guessing that's pretty common?

It's cheap money if you're in it for the long haul. You'll make some great contacts. Also, get active in the leadership and it'll increase your credibility. Maybe even doing the mailing and the membership directory. Or other promotional type endeavors with the Chamber.

In addition, check eBay for occassional SRDS directories. A couple years ago, I got about $2000 worth in various categories for like $50. They weren't current, but who cares.

- Rick Duris

[NickN]

I'm a newbie copywriter who also has zero -- zero! -- interest in writing online sales letters. (I lurk this forum because, despite most of the convos being related to IM copywriting, the information doled out by the experts on here is valuable to any writer.)

So I combined my years of grocery retail experience and writing background to form a Supermarket Copywriting Service. I've been doing OK for being a total greenhorn, and I'm hoping the new sales letter I'm mailing this week (targeted at grocery marketing directors around the U.S.) will net me a few more G's.

As for landing clients offline -- I've been having mixed success. I landed my first client with a one-page, 282-word "sales letter" that no copywriter would want to take credit for.

My next sales letter was much better (I thought), more targeted, and sent to twice as many businesses. I got one response, which was from a company that wanted to pay me well below my rates for jobs that weren't worth my time (a project consisting of a single paragraph? Really?).

But I think as long as you position yourself effectively, you can make it as an offline copywriter. Peter Boweman, author of The Well-Fed Writer, makes six figures doing mostly offline copywriting.

[MatthewJFales]

Originally Posted by NickN

I'm a newbie copywriter who also has zero -- zero! -- interest in writing online sales letters. (I lurk this forum because, despite most of the convos being related to IM copywriting, the information doled out by the experts on here is valuable to any writer.)

So I combined my years of grocery retail experience and writing background to form a Supermarket Copywriting Service. I've been doing OK for being a total greenhorn, and I'm hoping the new sales letter I'm mailing this week (targeted at grocery marketing directors around the U.S.) will net me a few more G's.

As for landing clients offline -- I've been having mixed success. I landed my first client with a one-page, 282-word "sales letter" that no copywriter would want to take credit for.

My next sales letter was much better (I thought), more targeted, and sent to twice as many businesses. I got one response, which was from a company that wanted to pay me well below my rates for jobs that weren't worth my time (a project consisting of a single paragraph? Really?).

But I think as long as you position yourself effectively, you can make it as an offline copywriter. Peter Boweman, author of The Well-Fed Writer, makes six figures doing mostly offline copywriting.

Hey Nick. Interesting, I have some grocery experience myself. Although it was about 10 years ago, but I did stock shelves for nearly 4 years.

So I'm curious, how many pieces did you mail to these businesses? And what kind of list did you use? I was going to develop my own list, but don't want to simply address the letter "Dear Business Owner". I wanted to personalize as much as possible.

I have written a prospecting letter and had planned on mailing it in a FedEx envelope...just stressing over the list.

Thanks.

[MatthewJFales]

Originally Posted by RickDuris

It's cheap money if you're in it for the long haul. You'll make some great contacts. Also, get active in the leadership and it'll increase your credibility. Maybe even doing the mailing and the membership directory. Or other promotional type endeavors with the Chamber.

In addition, check eBay for occassional SRDS directories. A couple years ago, I got about $2000 worth in various categories for like $50. They weren't current, but who cares.

- Rick Duris

Oh I didn't mean to sound as if I was questioning the value. I just happen to be extremely strapped for the first time in my life adult life. I recently lost a high five-figure (yearly) client, so things feel like they're spiraling out-of-control. (I hope that didn't come across as "woe is me")

I'll have to check ebay. I'm not sure why I hadn't thought of that.

[RickDuris]

Originally Posted by MatthewJFales

Oh I didn't mean to sound as if I was questioning the value. I just happen to be extremely strapped for the first time in my life adult life. I recently lost a high five-figure (yearly) client, so things feel like they're spiraling out-of-control. (I hope that didn't come across as "woe is me")

I'll have to check ebay. I'm not sure why I hadn't thought of that.

Sorry to hear. I wasn't questioning your situation at all.

Good luck with your endeavor,

- Rick Duris

[MatthewJFales]

Originally Posted by RickDuris

Sorry to hear. I wasn't questioning your situation at all.

Good luck with your endeavor,

- Rick Duris

Thanks again Rick. I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to respond.

[NickN]

Originally Posted by MatthewJFales

Hey Nick. Interesting, I have some grocery experience myself. Although it was about 10 years ago, but I did stock shelves for nearly 4 years.

So I'm curious, how many pieces did you mail to these businesses? And what kind of list did you use? I was going to develop my own list, but don't want to simply address the letter "Dear Business Owner". I wanted to personalize as much as possible.

I have written a prospecting letter and had planned on mailing it in a FedEx envelope...just stressing over the list.

Thanks.

Thirty-five for the first sales letter, and 70 for the second. Probably well below average to accurately measure response rate, but that's all I had budget for at the time.

The first sales letter wasn't really targeted. I mailed to grocery stores, ski resorts, hotels, cinemas -- the works. (That was before I discovered my niche.)

The second letter was targeted specifically at grocery marketing directors.

Do you use ZoomInfo, Jigsaw, or any other business search engine? Those sites make it easy to find out a person's name. I actually recommend Jigsaw. You have to pay for a person's email address and phone number, but you can view his or her name and address for free. Makes it super-easy to personalize your contacts list.

I've found that timing is a key factor in direct mailing. That first sales letter I sent out -- you know, the one I said no copywriter would take credit for -- just happened to land in the lap of a grocery marketing director at the right time. She was super-stressed with her workload. So when she received my letter, she jumped at the chance to hire me. In five months, she's hired me for projects on 16 separate occasions.

I sent out my second sales letter after I had more knowledge of direct mailing and copywriting...and it got the exact same amount of replies as my first letter.

You can chalk it up to a number of factors -- prospects never actually received the letter, I said something that rubbed them the wrong way, and so on. But some prospects probably just weren't interested in my services at that time. That's why I'm sending out another letter this week.

The point is that you've can't send out just one sales letter and expect to sleep on piles of Benjamins within a couple months. You have to hit prospects with your pitch multiple times.

[RickDuris]

Originally Posted by MatthewJFales

You see, it all started by writing sales letters to my existing customers (for a computer repair business I run). Since the very first mailing I’ve been hooked. There’s nothing like having a really slow day at the office – dropping a few hundred (or thousand) letters in the mail—and within 2-days, have your phone ringing off the hook. Often times this has created an almost magical momentum keeping me busy for as much as 3-months per mailing.

Hi Matthew,

I have been thinking about your situation and I have a couple of ideas to help you out of the jam you're in short term.

I don't know exactly what you mean by "computer repair," but my guess is you're kinda like Geek Squad, yes?

1) If you're doing physical mailings and they are as successful as you say they are, I would license the marketing to others in your industry.

I would create a whole product offering around it. Package it. Create video training so they implement it effectively, in addition to actually giving them the copy.

In other words, give them all the strategy behind it and why it works. Make it valuable and expensive. You want them to drool when they read the letter.

2) Get yourself a list of all the computer repair businesses and do a test. A couple hundred names should do it.

3) Here's another way to go about it: There are dozens of people who sell info-products and consulting into yuor market. Do a JV with them.

Split the profits however you want. In this case, it would be better to have conversion metrics available so the JV partner can visualize success.

What you've got is an undervalued intangible marketing asset, and you should be leveraging it.

- Rick Duris

PS: If you need some help strategizing, let me know. I'm available on Skype. copyranger.

[Mark Andrews]

Matthew, get this...

The First-Ever International Association For Direct-Response Industry Writers

It's exactly what you need. Just read it completely, all the way through. I think it will help you enormously given your copywriting goals.

And of course no affiliate link either. I've nothing to gain personally recommending this to you today.

Best,


Pete Walker

[arfasaira]

Originally Posted by Pete Walker

Matthew, get this...

The First-Ever International Association For Direct-Response Industry Writers

It's exactly what you need. Just read it completely, all the way through. I think it will help you enormously given your copywriting goals.

And of course no affiliate link either. I've nothing to gain personally recommending this to you today.

Best,


Pete Walker

I bought this last week and recommended to Pete - It's actually very good and there's LOADS to learn and sink your teeth into - and for the price, its a steal.

[MatthewJFales]

Originally Posted by NickN

Thirty-five for the first sales letter, and 70 for the second. Probably well below average to accurately measure response rate, but that's all I had budget for at the time.

The first sales letter wasn't really targeted. I mailed to grocery stores, ski resorts, hotels, cinemas -- the works. (That was before I discovered my niche.)

The second letter was targeted specifically at grocery marketing directors.

Do you use ZoomInfo, Jigsaw, or any other business search engine? Those sites make it easy to find out a person's name. I actually recommend Jigsaw. You have to pay for a person's email address and phone number, but you can view his or her name and address for free. Makes it super-easy to personalize your contacts list.

I've found that timing is a key factor in direct mailing. That first sales letter I sent out -- you know, the one I said no copywriter would take credit for -- just happened to land in the lap of a grocery marketing director at the right time. She was super-stressed with her workload. So when she received my letter, she jumped at the chance to hire me. In five months, she's hired me for projects on 16 separate occasions.

I sent out my second sales letter after I had more knowledge of direct mailing and copywriting...and it got the exact same amount of replies as my first letter.

You can chalk it up to a number of factors -- prospects never actually received the letter, I said something that rubbed them the wrong way, and so on. But some prospects probably just weren't interested in my services at that time. That's why I'm sending out another letter this week.

The point is that you've can't send out just one sales letter and expect to sleep on piles of Benjamins within a couple months. You have to hit prospects with your pitch multiple times.

Great stuff. Jigsaw is awesome! Thanks for that. I've gotten a couple quotes from a local mail broker -- $500 is the bare minimum for any list -- and you pretty much have zero control of the piece. Meaning that you never get to view the actual lists...I feel like I need to use "gun-to-the-head" techniques to get my campaign opened. Wasn't it Carlton and Halbert who called it that? Anyways, I intend to hand address each piece and use a bona-fide first class stamp on each etc.

This is really inspirational to me. I know I'm not an expert compared to many around here -- but getting 1 repeat client (x16) to a blind list and a self-described so-so letter seems like a home-run for your first time at bat.

Did the second mailing include the original 35? Or was it a totally different list? Thanks again Nick. I love chatting about this stuff. The more detailed the better.

Keep me posted on your next mailing, I would love to hear how it goes.

If you ever want to chat on skype my id is: matt.fales

[MatthewJFales]

Originally Posted by Pete Walker

Matthew, get this...

[Link Removed]

It's exactly what you need. Just read it completely, all the way through. I think it will help you enormously given your copywriting goals.

And of course no affiliate link either. I've nothing to gain personally recommending this to you today.

Best,


Pete Walker

Pete...Grade A stuff! I can't believe I haven't ran across that yet. It looks like pure gold. Too bad I missed the sale price (ended on the 28th) -- but still very affordable at $48 a month(I think it was). This is exactly what I'm looking for.

[MatthewJFales]

Originally Posted by toponewebresult

Thats what I want to swim with the shark to make me fast in doing writting article in the website.

^WTF? Umm...thanks I guess.

[MatthewJFales]

Originally Posted by RickDuris

Hi Matthew,

I have been thinking about your situation and I have a couple of ideas to help you out of the jam you're in short term.

I don't know exactly what you mean by "computer repair," but my guess is you're kinda like Geek Squad, yes?

1) If you're doing physical mailings and they are as successful as you say they are, I would license the marketing to others in your industry.

I would create a whole product offering around it. Package it. Create video training so they implement it effectively, in addition to actually giving them the copy.

In other words, give them all the strategy behind it and why it works. Make it valuable and expensive. You want them to drool when they read the letter.

2) Get yourself a list of all the computer repair businesses and do a test. A couple hundred names should do it.

3) Here's another way to go about it: There are dozens of people who sell info-products and consulting into yuor market. Do a JV with them.

Split the profits however you want. In this case, it would be better to have conversion metrics available so the JV partner can visualize success.

What you've got is an undervalued intangible marketing asset, and you should be leveraging it.

- Rick Duris

PS: If you need some help strategizing, let me know. I'm available on Skype. copyranger.

Rick. Yeah we’re similar to Geek Squad. Although we have a much higher skill-level and do IT related stuff as well as the “basic” stuff.


I have thought about doing something like you’re talking about. The only issue is, my letters are going to a list that I already have a great rapport with. On top of that, each letter really caters to local events (horseracing, college basketball, etc) that people here are familiar with. I’m pretty sure this is a big part of the reason my mailings have been successful…I guess the videos would cover altering those types of variables right?


I’m about to do a small test mailing to a cold list (home owners in my zip code) to prospect for new clients. If all goes well, I’d love to start doing something like this right away.


I’ll definitely take you up on your offer to help me strategize—Of course I’ll have to give you a % of profits for doing so.


Thanks!

-Matt

[RickDuris]

Originally Posted by MatthewJFales

Rick. Yeah we’re similar to Geek Squad. Although we have a much higher skill-level and do IT related stuff as well as the “basic” stuff.


I have thought about doing something like you’re talking about. The only issue is, my letters are going to a list that I already have a great rapport with. On top of that, each letter really caters to local events (horseracing, college basketball, etc) that people here are familiar with. I’m pretty sure this is a big part of the reason my mailings have been successful…I guess the videos would cover altering those types of variables right?


I’m about to do a small test mailing to a cold list (home owners in my zip code) to prospect for new clients. If all goes well, I’d love to start doing something like this right away.


I’ll definitely take you up on your offer to help me strategize—Of course I’ll have to give you a % of profits for doing so.


Thanks!

-Matt

Explaining the strategy is crucial to your success.

But here's the thing, most professional IT service providers if they have been in business for any amount of time, are pretty good at selling services. But when it comes to farming an area or shaking the trees for business (i.e. marketing), they suck.

Sounds like you've cracked the code on that part. And I'm sure the sales latter is done well, your "system" could fetch a pretty penny.

Now that said, it maytake as many as three letters to establish trust and credibility, but if it's done right and you insert a little exclusivity into the picture, you could sell it for anywhere between $297 and $997, maybe more if there was some additional things you could throw in.

And you might want to include a phone consultation and THAT could as a backend, stir you up some more business.

- Rick Duris

[MatthewJFales]

Originally Posted by RickDuris

Explaining the strategy is crucial to your success.

But here's the thing, most professional IT service providers if they have been in business for any amount of time, are pretty good at selling services. But when it comes to farming an area or shaking the trees for business (i.e. marketing), they suck.

Sounds like you've cracked the code on that part. And I'm sure the sales latter is done well, your "system" could fetch a pretty penny.

Now that said, it maytake as many as three letters to establish trust and credibility, but if it's done right and you insert a little exclusivity into the picture, you could sell it for anywhere between $297 and $997, maybe more if there was some additional things you could throw in.

And you might want to include a phone consultation and THAT could as a backend, stir you up some more business.

- Rick Duris

Yes...IT marketing is basically non-existent. I grabbed all the phone books I could find to do some research last night -- I couldn't find a single place with a USP-- And only 1 ad promoting benefits instead of generic features. This spanned from 2006-present in several different books. The funny thing is..my ad from 2006 was probably the best one I found...and I had zero idea what I was doing at the time. Haha.

So here are a few other ideas I had:

1.) Residential Prospecting Letter (Series x3)
2.) Business Prospecting Letter (Series x3)
3.) Targeted Prospecting Letter(s) by industry (Doctors, Dentists, etc)
4.) Managed Services Package (Remote Support w/monthly contract)
5.) Phone Script for incoming calls
6.) 4 Letters to existing customer base (Seasonal: spring cleaning, July 4th or back to school, holiday oriented, etc)
7.) Thank you postcard for new customers
8.) Autoresponder Newsletter Template + Tips
9.) Videos showing how to implement each step
8.) Phone Consultation(s) x ?

Maybe a few items like additional phone consultations could be upsells. Also I'm confident there are all kinds of things to sell on the backend. Wordpress templates, adwords tutorials....

Man, you've really helped kick my mind into gear.

I'm sure there are more things I'm overlooking...but you think I'm on the right track?

I'll add you on skype tonight when I have a little more free time.

Thanks.

-Matt