What Happened To This "Copywriting" Forum?

[Kenneth L]

I came in here today to have a look and there seems to be very little about actual Copywriting.

There seems to be a LOT of discussion about articles, article spinners, looking for writers etc.

BUT very little about Copywriting - Sales Pages, Headlines, Benefits etc.

I think this Forum is badly off-track from what it was meant to be and as such discourages Copywriters from coming in here and talking about techniques, strategies because it's so clogged up with non-relevant material.

I hope this can change because it is a sad loss if fewer Warriors become aware of Copywriting and don't set out to learn it.

[ndcole78]

You're absolutely right. It's become more about writing articles, which is not copywriting. I used to post threads about copywriting, but there were so many others about articles and "can you fix my sales copy" for free type of threads that I scaled back on posting.

[Kenneth L]

Originally Posted by ndcole78

You're absolutely right. It's become more about writing articles, which is not copywriting. I used to post threads about copywriting, but there were so many others about articles and "can you fix my sales copy" for free type of threads that I scaled back on posting.

Spot on.

"Articles, Spinners, Looking For Article Writers..." - These type of threads have no business being in the Copywriting Forum.

It seems a lot of people aren't distinguishing between the difference - which is HUGE - between writing articles and sales copy.

This is why, for Copywriting discussion, I mostly hang about at the new Copywriters Board.

I'd still love for this section to be thriving but, at present, there needs to be a change in focus - ONLY discussing Copywriting on this thread.

Kenneth

[Cherilyn Woodhouse]

Couldn't have said it better myself... It seems the only time I find myself posting in here anymore is to try and help people distinguish the difference. In other words, I now only post "this isn't copywriting" in one or two threads, get tired of it, and leave.

Oh well...

- Cherilyn

[ecoverartist]

That's the number one reason I don't generally post in here. I don't mind helping people with their copywriting, but I'm not going to touch a $1 article rewriting job or article spinner software with a ten foot pole.

[ndcole78]

well, I hope something is done or changed to get it back the way it was, because it seems that the real copywriters aren't really involved anymore.

The one thing that I see a lot of is opinions being made, instead of facts geared toward copywriting--that along with the many article writer-like threads and calling it copywriting.

[tredan]

Ummmm.. I was thinking the same thing!

[Collette]

Also the latest rash of "I write articles for cheap so PM me." posts.

Those posts belong in the Classifieds section. Which, I believe, is still only $20 to post in.

So please put those posts there. You know who you are.

The really sad thing is, although this section is "Copywriting" many of the posts here seem to be made by posters who don't know, understand, or appreciate the value of good copywriting.

[erinwrites]

I was wondering what was with all of the "I want to hire a cheap writer" threads.... I'm glad that I am not the only one who is annoyed with this! I was looking forward to coming back here after the holidays but most of what I find makes me feel like all of the people who got yelled at for off topic stuff in other forums are setting up camp here.

[Bruce NewMedia]

I agree with the above comments completely.

Is it possible to put a "sticky" on top that explains what COPYWRITING is, and that it is not Article Writing and Proposal writing, etc. and that this is not a Writer's Classified Mart or whatever?

...and once this is clearly stated, couldn't forum members just 'nuke' posts that don't conform to the purpose and rules?
______
Bruce

[Collette]

Originally Posted by erinwrites

I was wondering what was with all of the "I want to hire a cheap writer" threads.... I'm glad that I am not the only one who is annoyed with this! ....

Oh HAY-ELL NO! you are not alone.

[Kenneth L]

I wonder now if we have such a strong consensus on this matter if it will be possible to speak to some of the Moderators and get this section of the WF back on track?

Anyone have any ideas about how best to approach this?

Kenneth

[Collette]

I think Bruceby's idea of a sticky is a good one. And the sticky should specifically state that using this section of the forum for anything other than a discussion of copywriting-related subjects will cause the poster to be ruthlessly flagged.

Then it's up to the rest of us to do the flagging.

[Dean Dhuli]

Guys,

I understand we're all annoyed with the non-copywriting posts being made.

But to be honest...I don't think we can fault the posters for making those posts.

You see, there are 3 things here...

a) A lot of forums/job boards/freelancing sites all over the internet promote copywriting
and content writing as the same thing. So some people will take them to be one and
the same and we cannot go around educating everybody that they're not.

b) The Warrior Forum doesn't have a separate "Content writing" section.

Since people have to make requests for articles somewhere...and since they cannot do it
in the general Internet Marketing Discussion area or anywhere else, they will automatically
think they have do it here.

c) The WF doesn't have a separate "Website critique" section.

I remember that when the Copywriting section was first started, the moderators made a
serious attempt to prevent this board from turning into a "free critique" section.

For some time, there was a rule that all Critique requests should be made in one thread
only. But as that idea was not very workable, they gave up on it eventually.

So IMHO, if you want to get this Copywriting forum back to track, there's only one way
to do it...

The Copywriting section should be again divided into 3 more sub-sections:

1) General Copywriting Discussion
This is where all topics related to copywriting will be discussed.

2) Content writing section
This is where you request for articles, ebooks, etc.

3) Critique requests
All the website critique requests go here.


Hopefully, this will get all the copywriters to post here more frequently.
Or I think it will anyway.

Regards,
Dean Dhuli.

[gjabiz]

Simple solution.

All of you copywriters who think this forum needs tweaked and put back on track about copywriting... start posting YOUR advice about copywriting. Be PROactive, not reactive.

So, I'll do what I advise.

My opinion is that many younger copywriters aren't schooled in either business nor in the direct response industry. And it shows.

If you want to write copy that creates sales, you have to understand human motivation, people's preoccupations and the niche or target market (the person) to whom you are addressing.

There isn't a magic nor amazing formula for writing copy, you can have all the swipe files in the world, but where the rubber meets the road, you have to have sales.

Most of the advice given to new products or new marketers is theory until they have sold something. The only thing that counts is the math.

You have identified a market (people with the desire to have your product and/or a niche with a passion).

You have a product for that market.

You have to get a sales message in front of that market and MEASURE response. THEN, you can begin to test your ideas and concepts.

For the last few years the art/science/skill of writing copy has been hyped as a BIZ-OP (a business opportunity) and everyone with a decent commmand of the language and some writing skills has been encouraged and persuaded to get in to the LUCRATIVE field of copywriting. And now it has been 5 years later, and the majority of people who took courses or signed up for copywriting mentoring are putting up their virtual shingles and flooding elance et al with their "copywriting expertise"...and many are starving or making a bare minimum from their copy.

Most of the copy you write is NOT going to work. It fails. But the nature of the business is such that you can have 7 to 14 failures and IF you have a hit, it more than pays for itself.

Pure copywriters, those who are not marketers or have direct response experience or do not sell their own products, are few and far between when it comes to the "magical" 6 figure level of income.

So to get this forum back on track, lets see some advice and information from the copywriters who visit. You can pick and choose which critiques you want to look at or ignore. No one is forcing anyone to read all the posts.

If you think this forum could use a spiff up, then grab a broom and start cleaning.

It is my opinion that because copywriting has been turned into a Biz-Op, and the hype of some of the more vocally successful marketers, that there are millions of noobs who think the Internet is going to be their mother lode...it can be...but without a basic knowledge or business and direct response math...it is a constant do over, again, again and again.

gjabiz

[Kenneth L]

Originally Posted by gjabiz

Simple solution.

All of you copywriters who think this forum needs tweaked and put back on track about copywriting... start posting YOUR advice about copywriting. Be PROactive, not reactive.

So, I'll do what I advise.

My opinion is that many younger copywriters aren't schooled in either business nor in the direct response industry. And it shows.

If you want to write copy that creates sales, you have to understand human motivation, people's preoccupations and the niche or target market (the person) to whom you are addressing.

There isn't a magic nor amazing formula for writing copy, you can have all the swipe files in the world, but where the rubber meets the road, you have to have sales.

Most of the advice given to new products or new marketers is theory until they have sold something. The only thing that counts is the math.

You have identified a market (people with the desire to have your product and/or a niche with a passion).

You have a product for that market.

You have to get a sales message in front of that market and MEASURE response. THEN, you can begin to test your ideas and concepts.

For the last few years the art/science/skill of writing copy has been hyped as a BIZ-OP (a business opportunity) and everyone with a decent commmand of the language and some writing skills has been encouraged and persuaded to get in to the LUCRATIVE field of copywriting. And now it has been 5 years later, and the majority of people who took courses or signed up for copywriting mentoring are putting up their virtual shingles and flooding elance et al with their "copywriting expertise"...and many are starving or making a bare minimum from their copy.

Most of the copy you write is NOT going to work. It fails. But the nature of the business is such that you can have 7 to 14 failures and IF you have a hit, it more than pays for itself.

Pure copywriters, those who are not marketers or have direct response experience or do not sell their own products, are few and far between when it comes to the "magical" 6 figure level of income.

So to get this forum back on track, lets see some advice and information from the copywriters who visit. You can pick and choose which critiques you want to look at or ignore. No one is forcing anyone to read all the posts.

If you think this forum could use a spiff up, then grab a broom and start cleaning.

It is my opinion that because copywriting has been turned into a Biz-Op, and the hype of some of the more vocally successful marketers, that there are millions of noobs who think the Internet is going to be their mother lode...it can be...but without a basic knowledge or business and direct response math...it is a constant do over, again, again and again.

gjabiz

Great post!

I remember watching a Dan Kennedy Seminar where he said you're not in the business of writing but in the business of numbers.

You've got to know your numbers. Period.

Once you have one promotion which gives you back $2 for every $1 you spend with the ability to scale - that's where the money is.

I'll also heed your advice and start to post more frequently in the Copywriting Forum.

Kenneth

[Bruce NewMedia]

Originally Posted by AnarchyAds

Gosh ... maybe its just easier if we get a moderation link to post
with a notification of an off topic thread and a suggestion of
where it would not only be welcome, but beneficial to all.

Thats what I would vote for.
_____
Bruce