Can I Afford A Copywriter?

[AlanCarr]

First the disclaimer - yes I know the obvious response is "Can you afford to NOT have a good copywriter?"

If I didn't appreciate the potential value I wouldn't be asking

Here's my situation. I have a great product (health and fitness, bodybuilding software) developed over a number of years, offer great support, mature domain etc etc etc. But I've done very little in the way of marketing.

Right now it's a trial period demo. I know of at least one competing product that's a bit cheaper, has no demo and still seems to be making at least some sales (based on the fact they've been advertising on Adwords for over 2 years).

It's a competitive niche, with at least 20 different products out there.

I've considered the idea of no demo and instead a great sales page, as I strongly suspect a lot of people download full of good intentions but then resort to the same habits that got them unfit or fat in the first place... As such I was thinking perhaps it would be best to hit them hard while they're keen and actually ask for the sale right then and there?

To do that it would need to be darn good sales copy. Currently sales are not high enough to justify spending a lot of money and likewise I don't HAVE a lot of money, so no amount of "worth every penny of some unrealistically high figure for me right now" stuff is going to do much for me really.

Any ideas, suggestions (or offers) regarding what it would take to not just match but improve upon sales of the downloadable demo?

And is it possible to do good sales copy that doesn't consist of a loooong narrow strip of text and fake testimonials?



B.

[Loren Woirhaye]

You need a follow-up system. The ideal system would deliver
the free demo on a CD and then your follow-up person would
call them at intervals to get feedback about the software.

You will protest that this is too much work, is too costly,
is not automated enough.... but it seems to me that the
thumbsuckers who download your software aren't complying
with their own intentions to use it... and you have little idea
why. By calling them you can prod them to upgrade, address
issues they don't understand, and assess their qualifications
for phone coaching. From there you can build a valuable
list of people who downloaded free weight-loss software,
with mailing addresses. Such a list can be profitably pimped
even if your software never even breaks even.

Some copywriters, like me, will consider writing copy on
a spec basis for a portion of products, but in my case I
need proof that you would actually drive a certain volume
of targeted traffic to the site. Quid Pro Quo - there is
no free lunch in such an arrangement. If you lack the
capital, skills, or JV-ability to get the traffic why would
a good writer want to write a site destined to languish
in obscurity?

[BrianMcLeod]

There is no question that the free download "slakes the thirst" of your prospects.

DISCLAIMER: I have never personally implemented the approach I'm about to describe, but...

I am intrigued by the thought of replacing your free demo download offer with a ($1) one-dollar 14 day trial offer that automatically converts into a fully-paid "annual subscription" if not canceled during the trial (with a reminder email automatically sent 3 days prior to the rebill).

Hmm.

Instead of an instant pay transaction you'd need to set up the payment as a subscription, setting the initial period to 14 days for a buck and the paid subscription period to yearly for the current selling price of your software.

Build out a private community for registered users in Drupal, Joomla or your forum flavor of choice.

Give limited community access to "Lite" users and full access to "Pro" users.

Anyway... It's a thought and worth every penny you paid for it.

I respect the way you put yourself out there in your request.

Hope this helps,

Brian

[shreekay85]

Originally Posted by Bigsofty

First the disclaimer - yes I know the obvious response is "Can you afford to NOT have a good copywriter?"

If I didn't appreciate the potential value I wouldn't be asking

Here's my situation. I have a great product (health and fitness, bodybuilding software) developed over a number of years, offer great support, mature domain etc etc etc. But I've done very little in the way of marketing.

Right now it's a trial period demo. I know of at least one competing product that's a bit cheaper, has no demo and still seems to be making at least some sales (based on the fact they've been advertising on Adwords for over 2 years).

It's a competitive niche, with at least 20 different products out there.

I've considered the idea of no demo and instead a great sales page, as I strongly suspect a lot of people download full of good intentions but then resort to the same habits that got them unfit or fat in the first place... As such I was thinking perhaps it would be best to hit them hard while they're keen and actually ask for the sale right then and there?

To do that it would need to be darn good sales copy. Currently sales are not high enough to justify spending a lot of money and likewise I don't HAVE a lot of money, so no amount of "worth every penny of some unrealistically high figure for me right now" stuff is going to do much for me really.

Any ideas, suggestions (or offers) regarding what it would take to not just match but improve upon sales of the downloadable demo?

And is it possible to do good sales copy that doesn't consist of a loooong narrow strip of text and fake testimonials?



B.

firstly mate,you say it is a great product and great support,but product creators are usually biased.

secondly you say you cant afford a copywriter but you go on to poke fun of long narrow strip of text and testimonials?heard of burnthefat.com?guess how its selling its stuff?

you need to invest in any business,be it online or offline.alot of people think doing a business online gives them the right to be cheap.

there is a wide range of copywriters from competent ones who charge $500 to excellent ones who charge $5000,you can get a competent one if you cant afford an excellent one.

one caveat though,you already must have a good product,for a copywriter to weave his magic.

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by Bigsofty

Right now it's a trial period demo. I know of at least one competing product that's a bit cheaper, has no demo and still seems to be making at least some sales (based on the fact they've been advertising on Adwords for over 2 years).

It's a competitive niche, with at least 20 different products out there.

Would you care to share your URL with us? How about those of the best competitors in your business?

Paul

[AlanCarr]

OK I'll respond one by one.

You need a follow-up system. The ideal system would deliver
the free demo on a CD and then your follow-up person would
call them at intervals to get feedback about the software.

Sometimes I ask for a name and email in order to get the download. Doing that I get around 1 or 2 downloads a day. I built a list of around 1500 but recently deleted it entirely (apart from customers), mainly as the old autoresponder screwed up. My newer list, started in December, has 160 people on it. Another issue is my old list proudly proclaimed they would never be contacted about anything other than the software, which tied my hands in terms of anything affiliate related.

At this moment, I'm not capturing emails and just linking directly to the demo.

In my own experience and from non-marketing but software-related forums the follow-up emailing doesn't seem particularly effective. Great for letting people know about new releases but sending out an offer or anything, little really happens.

Regarding sending a CD, aside from the objections you expected, there's also the fact there are so many other programs they could download instantly. Simply while waiting for the CD they'd either download something else or forget the idea altogether.

Quite a lot of my traffic arrives having specifically searched for this type of software, landing right on the home page.

Some copywriters, like me, will consider writing copy on
a spec basis for a portion of products, but in my case I
need proof that you would actually drive a certain volume
of targeted traffic to the site.

I've already had one such enquiry via PM but while I'd certainly consider some fee plus a percentage for 3 or 6 months or something I would not consider a never-ending arrangement. Traffic is usually around 50 uniques a day, almost twice that at the moment as it's Janauary and I did a press release and a couple of videos.

There is no question that the free download "slakes the thirst" of your prospects.

Loudmac, that is the perfect quote and sums up what I think is happening!

I am intrigued by the thought of replacing your free demo download offer with a ($1) one-dollar 14 day trial offer that automatically converts into a fully-paid "annual subscription" if not canceled during the trial (with a reminder email automatically sent 3 days prior to the rebill).

What I have done is to create a high-spec high-tech community site with a number of free tools. It's not entirely finished yet (these things always take a lot longer than you'd ever expect and was meant to be done before Jan 1st) but it is open and will feature a full online version of the software - but only for active members of the community with a lot (1000) posts. Alternatively they can purchase a super membership for $2.00 a month, in 6 month or 12 month chunks. As that software is not yet live it's hard to say how it will do.

I may change it to completely free but then encourage them to buy the download and ebook (I also have a 200 page illustrated ebook as an optional extra).

This is becoming a very long post so will whizz through...

firstly mate,you say it is a great product and great support,but product creators are usually biased

Well A. some people do buy it and those that do seem enthusiastic and B. in my autoresponder series the 2nd email is a link to a survey. I know if they hated it they probably wouldn't fill in the survery but 99% of surveys received say they like each aspect, they have no suggestions to make it better and yes they'd recommend it to a friend. They just don't buy it themselves!

secondly you say you cant afford a copywriter but you go on to poke fun of long narrow strip of text and testimonials?heard of burnthefat.com?guess how its selling its stuff?

I have great respect for Tom (the author) and learnt a lot from him in the early days. Biased or not, there's nothing in his book that's not in my own and mine has a bit more, plus the software, community etc. So yes, I know that the real issue is SELLING the thing - hence my tongue in cheek comment and the winking smiley.

you need to invest in any business,be it online or offline.alot of people think doing a business online gives them the right to be cheap.

Sure. That's why I've worked on and spent money on something returning little profit for over 3 years, heck the illustrations for the book cost me more than many people here would consider paying for their entire sites and product. It's because I'm trying to get rich quick without putting any work or money into it... NOT.

Would you care to share your URL with us?

I'd rather not on this thread but you can find it here:

http://www.warriorforum.com/groups/j...-warriors.html

In terms of competitors it's hard to say which are 'best' - I honestly believe my own software is equal or better than anything out there in terms of ease of use and fun to use, though I don't go down the "here's your meal plan and recipes" route.

One big issue that I think would make a major change to my traffic is that I went for the niche of bodybuilding rather than diet, so for bodybuilding software I'm on page one, likewise workout software but have only over the last few months been aiming at diet software as a keyword. I was way down the list before but have clawed my way to page 2. If I can get it onto page one for that term the traffic is way higher.

In fairness it IS aimed at bodybuilders like myself, without the meal plans or "low fat" PC crap.

Another aspect to the "buy it now" route is I could then sell it via Clickbank or start my own affiliate system but right now I'm just sick and tired of tweaking, fiddling, tuning, fiddling some more and constantly being bogged down with technical stuff.

Bottom line, people are searching for this type of software, they're finding me, they're giving an email to download, they're filling in a survey the next day saying it's great and they'd recommend it - but they're not freakin' BUYING it enough to pay the bills. I'm not after a fortune here as I live on Borneo and would be happy with just a few sales a week.

As Mac put it, I think the problem is they are fired up and keen at the time but get to play with it until the novelty wears off. Then they're back to munching chips and staring at the TV. If they purchased they'd probably use it, which would help them and help me

I'll be leaving the demo as it is on download sites but for my own site I need to SELL, not convert into downloads.

Am I making sense?


B.

[shreekay85]

i took a look at your site just now..sent you a pm..let me know...

[Loren Woirhaye]

You didn't understand my point at all. But that's ok. Good luck to you.

[shreekay85]

Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye

You didn't understand my point at all. But that's ok. Good luck to you.

you cant help those who dont want to listen bro..i offered my help for free when i normally charge thousands per client at the least and he said that me not having a title tag in my site wrecks my credibility and no thanx..lol..oh well..his loss..

[AlanCarr]

Shreekay, I did you the service of responding via PM.

If you'd like a more public response, sure. You website has no title tag, meaning it is shown as "Untitled document" on the browser and tabs. I'm not an expert copywriter but I am not a complete noob either. "Untitled document" comes across as "Noob" and destroyed the credibility of anything you had to say after. That and the typo I pointed out to you.

I could have just ignored you but instead responded, letting you know what had put me off. I wish MY visitors were so helpful!

Loren - If I didn't understand it then you failed as a writer

So far I'm most impressed with Loudmac, who summed it up beautifully in one sentence then gave an imaginative and creative suggestion, complete with a disclaimer.

The responses so far have answered my question though - no, I can't afford you guys. I'd probably be a pain-in-the-ass client as well, as I know a fair bit about copywriting and websites, including knowing my limitations.

Sales are low but regular so for now I'm going to concentrate on the online version, do yet one more update to the download and then have to figure this out myself I think.

Thank you all for the feedback though. If I offended anybody I didn't mean to


B.