Now I Know why Good Writers Cost Good Money

[Nathan Hangen]

So I've had a bit too much on my plate lately, so I thought I'd pay some cheap article writers to make some content for me. I thought that since these sites weren't a huge deal that I could just pay a cheaper price and deal with it.

Well let me tell you something, it is no use to pay for articles that you have to basically rewrite from the ground up! They may be cheap, but most of the time they won't even sound like English

So lesson learned on my part. I also learned I need to charge more!

[Amber_Writes]

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

So I've had a bit too much on my plate lately, so I thought I'd pay some cheap article writers to make some content for me. I thought that since these sites weren't a huge deal that I could just pay a cheaper price and deal with it.

Well let me tell you something, it is no use to pay for articles that you have to basically rewrite from the ground up! They may be cheap, but most of the time they won't even sound like English

So lesson learned on my part. I also learned I need to charge more!

It's great that you've come to that realization. Plus, if you don't value your work, no one else will.

I've always set my prices according to my own determination regardless of what "the market" says or otherwise. You give quality, you charge a damn good price for it. Don't sell yourself short because in the end, the only one it's hurting is you.

And on the bit about cheap writers...

It took me only one lazy spurt to learn my lesson. I only lost 20 bucks, but the headache I suffered from trying to decipher the crap I got was too much for me. From then on, I decided to just buckle down and do my own writing. Plus, with all the junk writers out there, I know there's a place for me to shine.

[maximus242]

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

So I've had a bit too much on my plate lately, so I thought I'd pay some cheap article writers to make some content for me. I thought that since these sites weren't a huge deal that I could just pay a cheaper price and deal with it.

Well let me tell you something, it is no use to pay for articles that you have to basically rewrite from the ground up! They may be cheap, but most of the time they won't even sound like English

So lesson learned on my part. I also learned I need to charge more!

Now if you really want to impress someone have good english AND amazing content, then you can charge whatever price you like. Honestly ive hired about 30 writers and you know what, ive only found one I want to keep.

If I found someone who actually put in a lot of effort to write great content, what a day that would be. Seriously, if you can produce amazing content in you are in a market ALL OF YOUR OWN.

Because most articles, while well written, are valueless content. You could charge $50 a pop if you produced amazing content. Most people suck at it though, they dont do the all important research

[IMChick]

Experience can be really expensive sometimes. The lack of experience can be even more expensive.

I just can't figure the outsourcing stampede for this reason. At first I thought it was a control issue, you know, I needed to write to keep control, but it's so much more than that.

It makes perfect sense to invest the time and energy in high quality yourself because a well written and properly marketed article will work for many years. To me, it's kind of like leaving your kids with someone you met from the grocery store bulletin board.

[trafficerik]

I think the stampede stems from all of the high-level advice to outsource--and to get it done as cheaply as possible.

What the experts don't explain quite as well is differentiating between the stuff you can safely outsource to lower-end providers and the stuff you need to carefully hand off to an expert (along with an appropriately sized stack of cash).

[maximus242]

For me it comes from the fact that I cant nor do I want to do everything myself. I can afford to spend 3 months looking for a good writer that im going to use over and over again for the next 12 months.

Its worth it to outsource, once you outsource you will never go back to doing it yourself. It made my life 1000x easier.

[Amber_Writes]

Originally Posted by trafficerik

I think the stampede stems from all of the high-level advice to outsource--and to get it done as cheaply as possible.

What the experts don't explain quite as well is differentiating between the stuff you can safely outsource to lower-end providers and the stuff you need to carefully hand off to an expert (along with an appropriately sized stack of cash).

Why does everyone think that outsourcing has to be cheap? I thought outsourcing was just paying someone else to do something so you don't have to do it.

Correct me if I'm wrong here.

[maximus242]

Haha your right just article writers are getting annoyed at the cheapness of the market place -- it all comes down to supply and demand though, HUGE supply of article writers, not enough demand to push up the prices.

[Jessica Lynn]

Originally Posted by SuccessWarrior

Why does everyone think that outsourcing has to be cheap? I thought outsourcing was just paying someone else to do something so you don't have to do it.

Correct me if I'm wrong here.

That's so true! You definitely can outsource for cheap, but most of the time you'll end up working harder and longer trying to correct mistakes.

I've been there myself - I hired many cheap programmers and writers before swearing them off completely. Now I rely on a trusted team of carefully screened writers to produce content for me and only hire programmers that my friends personally recommend.

[Capone]

I think the main reason people outsource content is because they just don't like the headache of writing. As far as pricing goes, most smart marketers are willing to pay more for quality. They realize it's an investment and will payoff in the future.

[Amber_Writes]

Originally Posted by maximus242

Haha your right just article writers are getting annoyed at the cheapness of the market place -- it all comes down to supply and demand though, HUGE supply of article writers, not enough demand to push up the prices.

Honestly, I don't think that the cheap article writers will ever go anywhere. There will always be someone looking to undercut another's pricing just to snag a deal. Then, there will always be people who don't realize the worth in paying for quality. They'll lose a lot of money and still won't have what they need.

When I first joined the Warrior Forum, I noticed that people encourage you to price yourself low. I disagree. I'm sorry, but I provide good content and it's not worth me writing my fingers to the bone to get a few jobs. I'd rather work with the people who can appreciate my work than those looking for a cheap fix.

I write articles, but I'm not an article writer. I am a writer. I write poetry, short stories, web content, reports (not IM-related), and as of late e-books. I've been writing all of my life, and it's one of those "natural" things for me. And, as so, I place a high value on my work.

I think a lot of people short themselves on future opportunities by limiting themselves to being an "article writer." There is so much more fulfillment in writing than just a producing a good article.

[SuiteJ]

I have the same kind of love/hate relationship with outsourcing writing as some of you guys do. However, for some things (like site flips), I simply have to outsource, otherwise I couldn't do the same volume and simultaneously have time to work on other things. It depends what you're doing to make $$, but you have to "let go" in some cases if you want to produce more and expand your business.

I've also had the same types of experiences with hiring cheap writers. Getting $2 or $3 articles can sound exciting, but once you read them, that excitement turns into stress and headache when you realize that you just hired someone to do "drafts" for you and actually didn't save you any time.

Editing articles you hired someone to create really sucks. Trust me. lol

Cheers!
Jay

[Nathan Hangen]

Originally Posted by SuiteJ

I have the same kind of love/hate relationship with outsourcing writing as some of you guys do. However, for some things (like site flips), I simply have to outsource, otherwise I couldn't do the same volume and simultaneously have time to work on other things. It depends what you're doing to make $$, but you have to "let go" in some cases if you want to produce more and expand your business.

I've also had the same types of experiences with hiring cheap writers. Getting $2 or $3 articles can sound exciting, but once you read them, that excitement turns into stress and headache when you realize that you just hired someone to do "drafts" for you and actually didn't save you any time.

Editing articles you hired someone to create really sucks. Trust me. lol

Cheers!
Jay

My God you are so correct it isn't even funny. Most of these articles I paid 2 and 3 bucks for are not even salvageable...what a waste.

I outsource because I don't have the time to do my own stuff, but I enjoy writing so I do my own articles from time to time. For some reason though, I do a much better job on the articles I write for others.

[Amber_Writes]

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

My God you are so correct it isn't even funny. Most of these articles I paid 2 and 3 bucks for are not even salvageable...what a waste.

I outsource because I don't have the time to do my own stuff, but I enjoy writing so I do my own articles from time to time. For some reason though, I do a much better job on the articles I write for others.

It's probably because you feel the need to outdo yourself and over-deliver on what your customer expects. That way, they are happy with what they received, and have absolutely no problem coming back to you again!

Then again, it may just be that you've fallen victim to the customary belief in society that you're supposed to give your best to others and settle for mediocrity.

[Nathan Hangen]

Originally Posted by SuccessWarrior

It's probably because you feel the need to outdo yourself and over-deliver on what your customer expects. That way, they are happy with what they received, and have absolutely no problem coming back to you again!

Then again, it may just be that you've fallen victim to the customary belief in society that you're supposed to give your best to others and settle for mediocrity.

Yeah, you are correct. I write my own and its like, "yeah whatever." But I write for a client and get a good review...that is immediate gratification. I like to do a good job for others, which helps when you get paid to do it I suppose

[Amber_Writes]

I think the green is always an "excuse" to do a good job.

[Nathan Hangen]

Originally Posted by SuccessWarrior

I think the green is always an "excuse" to do a good job.

You got that right

[Amber_Writes]

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

You got that right

Quick question, do you get a lot of traffic to your site? In any event, how do you get most of your traffic to your site?

P.S. You know I read your blog, and it sucks about the "big guys" shutting you down.

[Nathan Hangen]

Originally Posted by SuccessWarrior

Quick question, do you get a lot of traffic to your site? In any event, how do you get most of your traffic to your site?

P.S. You know I read your blog, and it sucks about the "big guys" shutting you down.

Are you talking about traffic to my Webrepreneur Blog? I don't get a ton, maybe 40 hits a day on average, but it goes up and down depending on my post frequency and social activity. Glad you read it though, thanks for stopping by

It does suck, they cost me about 500-1000/month in extra cash...that I was using to pay cheap writers

[Amber_Writes]

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

Are you talking about traffic to my Webrepreneur Blog? I don't get a ton, maybe 40 hits a day on average, but it goes up and down depending on my post frequency and social activity. Glad you read it though, thanks for stopping by

It does suck, they cost me about 500-1000/month in extra cash...that I was using to pay cheap writers

I was asking about traffic to "the article guy."

Oh they took a nice hit off you, that wasn't very nice of them. Honestly, though, I don't get what the big deal is because it's not like it's costs them anything.

[AndyBlackSEO]

As the saying goes... if you pay peanuts, you'll attract monkeys. Don't some of these copywriter sites / directories, tender sites have ratings and review features in the site? As in, as well as display prices, it also displays a user rating. That way you can weed out all the bad copywriters, and find the good ones, regardless of price.

I haven't look on these sites so I wouldn't know, but if this is the case then surely there would be no excuse to hire bad writers?!

Andy

[Nathan Hangen]

Originally Posted by SuccessWarrior

I was asking about traffic to "the article guy."

Oh they took a nice hit off you, that wasn't very nice of them. Honestly, though, I don't get what the big deal is because it's not like it's costs them anything.

Oh that site? I'm not sure honestly, I know it gets just enough to keep me busy. As you can see, nothing too fancy, but it does ok.

[ryda]

Hi Nathan,

A quote comes to mind - pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

Mostly supposed unique articles have nothing unique about them, content is recycled from wiki and other websites. What differentiates one from another is the writer's style of writing.

I, myself, am trying to break the habit of relying on content from the internet for my articles. I'm creating content based on interviews and books, still experimenting with different approaches.

Anyway, a few extra bucks can go a long way, because the writer will put in those extra hours too to go the extra mile.

[winy925]

same thing happened for me a while back none of the articles sounded like english

[Raydal]

It's so sad the direction that "article writing" has taken. I write less
articles for other people now but I charge $150 per article when
I do and this is for my $10,000 and above clients who I write salescopy
for as well.

In this way they get articles they can be proud of and last a long time
bringing traffic to their businesses.

$2 articles? Give me a break!!

-Ray Edwards

[angelstrong]

some good lessons from the post. thanks!

[gtrusler]

I'm amazed by some of the content that I get back from people that claim to be writers.

[Nido]

Great tips and warning from the posts. Thanks

[Bruce Wedding]

And this has what to do with copywriting?

[Cherilyn Woodhouse]

Since we're in the copywriting forum, not the article forum, I AM going to hijack this thread and say...

The exact same thing happens in copywriting.

There are people who have paid for certain copywriting deals here on the WF, only to have to hire a real copywriter to throw it out and start again.

It always strikes me as amazing that when it comes to the two most important aspects of someones business, traffic and conversion rates, people skimp - but they'll pay insane amounts of money for a home study course that teaches them everything they already knew...

Stop spending money on courses and products. Hire a good article writer, and a good copywriter. Sure, ok so you can't afford $20/article and $10,000 for a salesletter - but $2500 for a salesletter is NOT highway robbery as some warriors here would believe, it's actually pretty cheap. And $10/article? Journalists would be mocking the content writers here charging those rates.

Invest in your business. Invest appropriately. Invest in the right people. You'll see your investment come back 10 fold.

- Cherilyn

[bambi211]

I got no experience with this but as my common sense dictates, you must know how to evaluate your prices according to your expertise and efforts.

[HallOfWords]

It always amazes me that people pay good money for things they don't need, but want and yet skimp on things they need. Why people can't realize that when you buy something that is going to make you more money don't skimp.

For instance if you pay someone $250 for one sales letter and you pay $2500 for another sales letter you will see 20 to 30 times more sales from the more expensive letter. Yet it only cost you 10 times as much. Yet somehow the economics just seems to escape people.

I know when I write something for someone I research the subject, the product the customers and every aspect of what it takes to make up a good sales letter for that product. When I get all that done I've invested a lot of time and I haven't even written anything yet.

Now, I realize that content and articles wouldn't seem to be that critical, but they are going to make an impression, nevertheless. I have been writing for quite some time and I can't believe how poorly some people write. My first impression is always the same when I see something that is not written well and that is that they are stupid. It may or may not be the case, but that is what I find myself thinking at the time and I'm not interested in doing business with stupid people.

[Party Plan Pat]

Originally Posted by Nathan Hangen

So I've had a bit too much on my plate lately, so I thought I'd pay some cheap article writers to make some content for me. I thought that since these sites weren't a huge deal that I could just pay a cheaper price and deal with it.

Well let me tell you something, it is no use to pay for articles that you have to basically rewrite from the ground up! They may be cheap, but most of the time they won't even sound like English

So lesson learned on my part. I also learned I need to charge more!

Amen, thank you for that. The worst thing is you gotta train people, then if they don't know SEO well you have to doctor the articles whatever. I think people think they are saving on time and money when in essence they are just quadrupling their work. Now if you have a team of folks that are trained, hey great. If you have the patience to nurture the relationship go for it. Remember you get what you pay for, so put up or shut up!

What an awesome lesson to learn! I write my own articles, cause well I just like what I do. Now submitting them, that is a whole different ball game!