Nasty Qustion...

[AlanCarr]

Forgive me, as I sin.

But I have to ask this question:

Why is it that when someone obviously doesn't have a clue how to make money on the internet or a clue how to write copy or a clue about SEO or whatever - and then asks for a critique of a site offering such services, no-one seems to point out they shouldn't be selling such services in the first place?

To me there's only one answer to questions like this:

"I'm trying to sell my ebook on SEO but I get no traffic at all. How can I get visitors?"

"I'm selling the copywriting. No sale for month and month why me get wrong it? Please help!@?"

etc is "why don't you ask the expert you represent to do it for you?"

I know we all need to grow and develop, me included, but isn't there some cut-off point where we have to say 'You shouldn't be selling this service in the first place'?



Sorry if I've upset anyone


B.

[Bruce NewMedia]

B - I have seen posters reply that way many times. And to almost exactly the same comments you raised. Someone will come on a say, "Please help me get traffic to my site - I'm dying there!"

...and you visit the site and it' all about GETTING TRAFFIC! or selling an ebook about it. It just shows how shameless many people can be.

So, yes, I have seen other posters criticize the OP for exactly what you've pointed out. (in fact I just did exactly that on post earlier tonite in this forum)
______
Bruce

[Craig Fenton]

Hi Bigsofty:

Hope all is well. Can I give a different point of view please and I am not directing you to a free E-Book or wanting to gain 1,245,678 new email subscribers.

This is simply getting into the mindset of certain people. When somebody writes a book or decides to plug a product they believe in maybe they don't have the best ideas, tools, or talent but if they aren't breaking the law or being part of a company with unethical behavior can we give them a pass. Is it possible to look the other way so they don't give up before they learn certain tricks that you have been afforded along the journey.

The other day I was having lunch with a few people and one of the employees is very into internet marketing. In one moment they complained about spam and too many repetitive posts on the internet and the next second they bragged about learning Black Hat Techniques from a pro.

We all do things from time to time that may not be viewed as the best in judgment but most of the people here seem to mean well and want to win.

Thanks for letting me give some of their insight and I kept a promise! No E-Book, affiliate program, or email capture, is being plugged!!!

Enjoy Sunday.

[AlanCarr]

They do? You did? Cool...

It's just that it's been my impression that somehow one shalt not point out the obvious here!

I'm all for helping people - but not helping them pass themselves off as experts when they're obviously not. There's enough rip offs and scams out there as it is.



B.

[tracyaustin]

Originally Posted by Bigsofty

Why is it that when someone obviously doesn't have a clue how to make money on the internet or a clue how to write copy or a clue about SEO or whatever - and then asks for a critique of a site offering such services, no-one seems to point out they shouldn't be selling such services in the first place?

To me there's only one answer to questions like this:

"I'm trying to sell my ebook on SEO but I get no traffic at all. How can I get visitors?"

"I'm selling the copywriting. No sale for month and month why me get wrong it? Please help!@?"

I know we all need to grow and develop, me included, but isn't there some cut-off point where we have to say 'You shouldn't be selling this service in the first place'?

Sorry if I've upset anyone

B.

Not upset in the least.

The Internet is (still) a free medium, and I hope will remain so. That means there will always be those who do silly things and don't see their own folly.

Who says you can't say "you shouldn't be selling this in the first place"? If that's your honest critique, then say it! Maybe phrased a bit differently like, "why are you selling SEO services if you don't know how to get traffic to your own website?"

OK, that's pretty direct, too, since subtlety isn't my forte...lol! I totally get what you mean, though and it might be worth it to point this out, it might also work against you...I remember my mom always saying, if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all...hmmm...tough call.

Thanks for the thought-provoking question.

Tracy

[Raydal]

I've seen several website that don't use the very thing they are selling
to boost sales. For example, I've seen websites that glorify the use
of video to get sales and was selling an online video product but had
NO VIDEOS ON THEIR SITE.

I've pointed this out before in my critiques, so maybe you've not seen
it often enough.

In fact, this is the first thing that I look for when I'm buying a product:
If you are selling a SEO product then your website must rank for the
search term otherwise you've just lost me.

At the same time I hate writing copy for myself so my sales letters for
my products may not be the best that they can be. As far as I'm
concerned I can always improve them (which I hardly get around to
doing) but I give my clients my BEST effort.

So if you were to judge my skills from my own letters I'll probably
fall short.

-Ray Edwards

[Steveb2u]

point well taken. Please be patient as some of us correct our earlier mistakes. This is a learning process....and we are all humans.

[John_S]

I've several newbies attempt to run their business out of the critique forums. Client gives 'em a project. They post either their lame copy or try for the whole enchilada.

What's not to like?

"How To Con Copywriters Into Writing Copy They Charge Thousands For Absolutely Free."

[FitJerk]

Originally Posted by Bigsofty

Forgive me, as I sin.

But I have to ask this question:

Why is it that when someone obviously doesn't have a clue how to make money on the internet or a clue how to write copy or a clue about SEO or whatever - and then asks for a critique of a site offering such services, no-one seems to point out they shouldn't be selling such services in the first place?

To me there's only one answer to questions like this:

"I'm trying to sell my ebook on SEO but I get no traffic at all. How can I get visitors?"

"I'm selling the copywriting. No sale for month and month why me get wrong it? Please help!@?"

etc is "why don't you ask the expert you represent to do it for you?"

I know we all need to grow and develop, me included, but isn't there some cut-off point where we have to say 'You shouldn't be selling this service in the first place'?



Sorry if I've upset anyone


B.

This resonates quite well in my field. Can you believe there are fat-asses out there telling other fat-asses how to get in shape? Frigging shocking.

If you sell a product and don't practice what you preach... I shall flame your moron a$$. I've done so in the past... and upset quite a few flabby bums.

But whatever... =)

I think you should call them on it out right. If there is a dude selling a product on getting traffic and he's not getting any? What the hell?!

I can understand if he needs copywriting help, since that's a different field but comon!

It's like those dating "experts" on forums who never get laid. Go figure.

My 2 cents.

[DynamicRevelation]

Hi all.

From the perspective of a newbie ('cause that's what I am)...

Were I on the receiving end of criticism, I would like your honest thoughts- raw, uncut, and without a sugar-coating.

If my "stuff" isn't even in the right ballpark, I need to know- yesterday, if possible, and now at the latest.

It's apparent that this particular character has trouble seeing the obvious, so by what stretch of your imagination leads you to think being subtle will help them?

Further, if someone is so attached to their work that they regard an honest critique as a personal assault, they need to find a new line of work- even if that means while running away crying.

While you're dancing around the issue, trying to find the "tactful" approach, this person remains clueless.

I'm no expert on public relations, and on occasion I upset some people, but when I speak- I am heard... and nobody questions whether I intend well.

I don't expect everybody to be like me, but sometimes you have to be mean in order to be kind. Tell it like it is without calling them names and them insulting them... focus on the work itself, not them.

That's not bashing. It's necessary (and asked for) criticism.

[MoneyWriter]

I've always been a firm believer that honesty is the best policy. If someone can't write and is trying to sell articles, you should point out their flaws and tell them to either improve or drop their price...

[BradCarroll]

Yeah I always get doubly irritated when I see a post like, "Hi I'd like to cell my writing servuses do you know how to tell me how?"

Because sure, the OP is going to get upset, you can almost always count on that. In fact it's usually pretty funny (though maybe I'm just mean...)

The really irritating part is when you call this guy on his sh*t and other people get upset about it. "Be nice," etc etc blah blah blah.

When somebody is not only inept, but:

a) obviously has no respect for what they're doing

b) refuses to take the time and energy really know anything about what they're doing

c) is basically trying to scam people, by claiming expertise (or even just proficiency) in an area they obviously do not even understand,

it's kind of messed up for people to get upset with you, for calling somebody out on their crap.

Yet it happens all the time.

/end rant

[LeeMasterson]

You've hit the nail right on the head. I'm thinking the only people who would take offense to your comment are the ones guilty of it themselves.

My own favorite example came from a "writer" who offered a course right here on this forum teaching other writers how to make a great income from writing online. As my own personal niche is teaching people how to write for a living, I thought I'd take a look.
(regardless of what's in my signature, I own FictionFactor.com and FreelanceFactor.com)

The 'course' taught me that even though the owner was telling everyone she was a huge guru and earning plenty from her own writing career, the content made it abundantly clear that she has ZERO idea what she's talking about. In fact even the sites recommended to writers to visit to begin earning money were a joke.

So why do people pretend to be big gurus, scam unsuspecting people and show a complete disregard for the industry in which they're trying to break into? They don't even practice what they're preaching, so how on earth do they expect to be taken seriously?

Who knows? I just wish they'd stop. It hurts the industry they're playing with. It hurts the people who trusted them. And it ruins the reputations of people who take their online businesses very seriously.

/end rant

Lee

[FreelanceSally]

I have two theories on why they do this.....

1) They are certified idiots. They're trying to establish themselves as an expert in the SEO niche without knowing the mechanics of the process. On top of blatantly lying to their readers & clients about their so called "expertise," the idiots expose their inexperience to a forum with thousands of writers/marketers/potential clients. It takes a true moron to pull this one off.

2.) The SEO "expert" is using every trick in the book to direct traffic to their website. Even if it means exposing themselves as a fraud. They don't care how their site gets traffic as long as traffic arrives.

I second MetalSlug on practicing what you preach.

[Jamie Orman]

It is nice that they are actually trying to get help, although I'm sure most of the times they are only trying to have someone else do the work for them. But I agree.

There comes a point in time when some people just need to accept the fact maybe they should try something else.

[bigcullie]

No their is too levels of experise here. you are either good at your topic, or you are good at internet marketing. Very few are good at both.

I know many internet marketers who make a lot of money selling hype. I know of some product owners with excellent products but who have no idea how to market them. I would like to think I fall into the latter.

Internet marketing for some is a game. They know exactly how to play it, giving the genuine authors to much a run for there money. It is a sad world, but if you are wanting to sell on the internet then it is a must that you learn the marketing skills. the most you learn, you will see that many established markets are only playing a game, and it works for them.

Don't be discourgaed, grit your teeth and get on with learning the techniques, or others will bypass you with inferior products.

I hope this helps,

Gordon.