Michael Masterson AWAI

[ChrisBraddock]

My copywriting skills are nonexistent -- at least I have no formal nor informal education on the subject. I'm looking for the best books to change that and point me in the right overall direction with regards to copywriting. My goals are to be able to write compelling website copy / landing pages, eBooks, and email newsletters.

I'm in posession of 2 AWAI binders ... "Michael Masterson's Accelerated Program For Six-Figure Copywriting" and "The Masters Program For Six-Figure Copywriting." I've read more than once on these forums that these products are -- basically that they're not worth my time. Given my circumstances, do you agree? If so, what 2-3 books should I read, considering my goals?

[colmodwyer]

I'd get something like Dan Kennedy's Ultimate Sales Letter to get you through the basics. It's a quick read. From there get stuck into something a bit chunkier like Tested Advertising Methods by John Caples.

If you want to write specifically for the web, a book or two on web usability wouldn't go a miss either.

Colm

[Raydal]

YouTube - Best Copywriting Books To Read

[Loren Woirhaye]

now, let me get this straight.... you don't know how to
write copy. You have some materials about how to do
it... and you are asking whether you should even bother
to read what you have?

[ChrisBraddock]

Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye

You have some materials about how to do
it...

Do I? That's one of the questions I posed in my original post.

[ramohr]

Thank you I needed your post

[Loren Woirhaye]

Originally Posted by ChrisBraddock

I'm in posession of 2 AWAI binders ... "Michael Masterson's Accelerated Program For Six-Figure Copywriting" and "The Masters Program For Six-Figure Copywriting."

You said you have the course didn't you?

[Loren Woirhaye]

Maybe I misunderstood you. I don't know what you are
doing with the binders. I assumed they had information
about how to write copy in them.

I haven't read the AWAI course. You can get many
good copywriting books for the cost of the AWAI course.
I would say get the books, not the course.

You can get Brian Keith Voiles "Advertising Magic" now
on Ebay very cheap on CD-rom and it's a little old but
very well done.

[ChrisBraddock]

Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye

You said you have the course didn't you?

Yeah I said I have the course and I also said I've read that others have claimed it's not worth reading at all.

I (think I) get your point, but I'm busy. There aren't enough hours in the day. If this isn't the book to read, I don't want to read it, hence my post. My question isn't fueled by laziness.

Also, I've been a programmer for 15 years and know that a bad book about programming can be worse than no book at all. I don't know if this holds true for copywriting but I've got enough to wrap my head around without adding trying to figure out on my own what's good info and what's not ya know?

[Collette]

Chris -
I think what Loren is pointing out is that you already HAVE some information on writing copy. Apparently, you haven't bothered to even crack the info you have.

I understand your point about being busy, but may I suggest that if you are too busy to work through the body of material necessary to become a really good copywriter, you might be better off outsourcing?

The fact is that, in the end, there are no shortcuts to learning effective copy. What works for one person may not work for another. And effective copywriting depends on much, much more than following some formula. Good copywriters understand sales, marketing, and the basic psychological principles of human behavior. You're not going to get all that from ANY one book or course, no matter how well written.

The AWAI course will only teach you one method of writing copy. It's geared towards long copy-style. There are other ways to write copy. There's a whole thread already in the WF devoted to books on marketing and copy. Do a search, and you will have a reading list to keep you busy for a year.

I checked your blog. You already have pretty decent writing skills. I'd suggest reading what you got, and seeing if it works for you. The AWAI course is not BS. It will give you the basic tools to write long copy, but not the skills to do so. You will only gain copywriting skills by actually doing.

AWAI gets (deservedly) bad press because the course is a basic primer that will not, on its own, catapult you into a 6-Figure writing career. That part is definitely BS.

[ChrisBraddock]

If there is value in AWAI I will read it and try to take it for what it is -- please understand that is the exact question I wanted answered though with regards to AWAI -- is this worth my time or is my time better spent elsewhere?

Given the responses that I "haven't bothered to crack what I have" or [did you] "even bother to read what you have" -- I guess either I've portrayed myself as having or there has been some assumption that there is a laziness issue -- I'd just like to reiterate that I'm just trying to spend my time wisely.

Thanks for all the responses - I have a good list to work on. Great video Raydal and I see you've mentioned some of the same books as Colm so there's my social proof.

[Ken Strong]

Originally Posted by ChrisBraddock

If there is value in AWAI I will read it and try to take it for what it is -- please understand that is the exact question I wanted answered though with regards to AWAI -- is this worth my time or is my time better spent elsewhere?

Yes, read them already, they're not that long -- you could've been halfway through them in the time you've spent writing and reading in this thread.

IMHO they're not worth the high price they're charging for them, but there is good stuff in them, so if you've already got them, just look through them.

[ChrisBraddock]

Originally Posted by KenStrong

Yes, read them already, they're not that long -- you could've been halfway through them in the time you've spent writing and reading in this thread.

Yeah, no. I read very slowly.

[Loren Woirhaye]

I've read more than 30 books on copywriting and found value
in all of them. Masterson works with some real heavy hitters
with AWAI - he's not a poseur but his course is (apparently)
more targeted at people who want to start a career as
freelancers than write their own copy...

There's a difference in mindset between people who are
seeking vocational training and people who actually write
their own ads and sell their own stuff. Some people
invest in the AWAI course as a ticket to a better life -
if you want to write copy from a purely entrepreneurial
standpoint, risking your own money, read Joe Sugarman,
Ted Nicholas, and Gary Halbert. Those guys tell it like
it is because they put money on the line with their
own copy on a big scale every month for years, covering
payrolls, inventory, dealing with federal regulations.

The kind of mindset you get from the hard-core guys is
very different from the glorified employee-mindset of
some freelancers.

[TrafficGuy Claude]

I'm going through the Accelerated Program For Six Figure copywriting and I think its wonderful. They are right though, its geared more towards people wanting to freelance copywriting jobs for cash instead of writing their own copy for their own products. But the principles are sound.

[MontelloMarketing]

For an opinion from someone who took this course and later went on to 6 figure copywriting (in spite of the course), read my response in this thread... Has anyone heard of awaionline?

Now remember... I paid for the course... took it... religiously did my assignments and even got excellent grades from AWAIs graders.

I don't care if you're looking to freelance... write for yourself... or get hired at an agency... the AWAI course is nothing more than a puffed up very basic introduction to copywriting. It's nothing more than that.

And I have no ax to grind with them... no bone to pick. I just like keeping things honest. Just calling a spade a spade.

[Deji]

Well I dont't have AWAI's course Chris so I can't say anything about it.However,if you want to know which books and resources are good for learning copywriting,I can point you in the right direction:
The Copywriter's Handbook and The Online Copywriter's Handbook by Bob Bly (you can get them at Amazon)
Magic Words That Bring You Riches and The Golden Mailbox by Ted Nicholas

Also sign up for Bob Bly's newsletter and he'll send you 4 reports free.From time to time,study the salesletters he sends to your inbox and learn how he writes copy.

Other good copywriters you can sign up for and learn from their salesletters are:
www.bensettle.com(he'll send you a very nice ebook of over 300 pages on copywriting tips when you sign up).He also has loads of mp3's and transcripts you can download for free.

Info Marketing Blog | Where the "Old School" Rules... (Lawrence Bernstein)-Loaded with lots of classic ads from the greats like Eugene Schwartz

The Total Package (Clayton Makepeace)- Direct response copywriter.Read through his article archives.Lots of useful articles on copywriting and other related stuff

Whatever you do,you must learn how to write great bullets and fascinations.Download "The Screaming Eagle" PDF report free on Clayton's site.

I could go on and on but this should do for now.Them most important thing is for you to practice everyday.Don't read and read and do nothing till you have analysis paralysis.

Hope this helps.

[ecoverartist]

If your copywriting skills are non-existant, you can learn a good deal from the AWAI course (I have them both as well and they were the first things I got when I started). The fact that you can have other people critique your work always helps. You get a different perspective and things you might not have considered before.

Obviously like any copywriting course, you shouldn't take AWAI as "the only" way to write copy. But it does help you get started. Other great reads are Dan Kennedy's Ultimate Sales Letter book, John Caples "Trusted Advertising Methods" and Bob Bly's "Copywriter's Handbook". All three of mine are practically falling apart from overuse.

Possibly the best thing you can do when you're starting out and may not have much of a budget is to actually COLLECT the junk mail you get. Collect it, see what buttons it pushes for you (if any). Even if you're not interested in what it's selling. I do the same with magazine advertisements.

It's like letting the people with massive budgets figure out what works best and then hand it to you on a silver platter

Good luck!

[marlon]

Warriors,

Back when I was a copywriter full time, I got up to $10,000 a letter.

I've sold millions online.

The AWAI courses are the best info available on copywriting I've read. I'm absolutely shocked when people say the courses are basic. I think maybe you have to be at a
certain level of understanding about copy to see the sheer brilliance of what Michael
teaches.

I can quote the law of transubstantiation, the law of transparency, the 4 legged stool,
the 4 p's, the core complex, the big idea and the 6 leads pretty much from heart.

His ideas on when to use direct and indirect leads are cutting edge.

Now, I haven't seen Fortin's course nor Clayton's $7500 Masterpiece. I'm sure both are amazing.

But if your attitude is you don't want to waste time reading something written by the
best copywriters in the business, then really, you won't make it.

You not only need to read their works, you need to read about everything else on copy you
can get your hands on. That includes ALL the other resources mentioned in this thread.
That includes John Caples, Robert Collier, Vic Scwab (sp), Bob Serling's book, Paul Myer's book, John Carlton's works.

A lot of people love the way Carlton teaches copywriting. Oh, you also need to read ALL the old Gary Halbert letters online.

And work your tail end off to become a good or a great copywriter. In the end you become a great copywriter by writing, not by reading.

Copywriting is a very high level skill.

There is no one course you need to read imho. That goes for ALL of marketing.

By the way, the one comment I have on Dan's book is if you think it's a great book on copy, re-read it.

The book is a lead generator for his copywriting services. The purpose is NOT to teach you that much about copywriting. The purpose is to convince you of how much work it is.

There is ONE difference between man and apes.

Man has the ability to read.

Use it or lose it.

Best wishes,

Marlon Sanders

[MontelloMarketing]

Marlon,

Really? "...the best info available on copywriting..." that never once mentions bullets? Seriously?

Isn't the concept of bullets pretty basic? Or do you think they need to be part of an upsell package?

And care to guess how much of the AWAI course is written in different (often the original) forms and given away free from other marketers? From what I've seen, I say "all."

I still contend there is a much better education to be had for less than 1/5th the price.

[Raydal]

Rating of any copywriting book or course depends so much on the
point at which we read the book or took the course. The less you
know about copywriting the more wowed you'll be by any new info
you get. The more seasoned you become, the less impressed you'll
be by reading a new book.

My point is that when you are just starting out in ANYTHING, love,
school, a job ... you are more impressionable and therefore whoever
or whatever touch you at that time will leave a bigger impression.

That's why I often take into consideration the experience of the
person giving the review and the natural bias they would have
according to WHEN they read that book.

Your first copywriting book will always leave a big impression.
I appreciate when a 'reviewer' says, I've read XX copywriting
books for took ____ copywriting courses and I got the most
value from this, or this is a good starter etc,."

For example, not many people talk about Terry Dean today
as a big "guru" since it appears he is keeping a lower profile
but I learned Internet marketing from him and he is HUGE
for me--much bigger than a lot of the Johny-come-lately
"gurus".

Why? Because I learned from him first. (I still love Terry Dean
as a marketer and person BTW).

Personally I find that the OLDER copywriting books give you more
bang for your bucks and the principles contained there are just
redressed by later copywriters. (Not that any of these copywriters
would deny this.)

-Ray Edwards

[MontelloMarketing]

Ray,

The first thing I read on copywriting was AWAI. Their letter was the spark that interested me in the craft. I have a fondness for those halcyon days, and can thank that letter for everything that has happened for me since...

But my conscience won't allow me to give AWAI a pass just because they got me in the biz that ultimately got me here.

I contend the letter that sold me (and thousands of others) is more of a course on copywriting than their course is.

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

Ray,

The first thing I read on copywriting was AWAI. Their letter was the spark that interested me in the craft. I have a fondness for those halcyon days, and can thank that letter for everything that has happened for me since...

But my conscience won't allow me to give AWAI a pass just because they got me in the biz that ultimately got me here.

I contend the letter that sold me (and thousands of others) is more of a course on copywriting than their course is.

I couldn't agree more. The recruiting letter for the course is a
great piece of writing. The simplicity, hook, appeal to lifestyle ...
are all great. I was tempted once to take the course but thought
that it was too basic for me then. And other copywriters evaluation
didn't help either.

But for sure their sales letter to sell the course is one for the swipe files.

-Ray Edwards

[colmodwyer]

The AWAI course does have the "50 Winning Sales Letters..." book which is pretty schweet.

Colm

[marlon]

Vin,

My brother...how are you?

I hear really awesome thing about your copy through the grapevine. So props on your copywriting success. That isn't cheap flattery. It's very much the truth. I asked around about who was writing the letters for a lot of the launches and your name came up over and over.

It's always nice to meet brothers who are talented copywriters. A rare breed.

Vin, I don't know where you got the idea they don't teach bullet points. That's what the 4 U's ARE!

And your first 3-4 bullets in the letter should all be 5 star. Michael teaches this. If you didn't get that point, it's probably because you read the course when you were newer in the business and it all wasn't adding up yet. I have the Masters Course ($750) and videos from them. Don't know what they teach in the basic course.

To discount the quality of the insights? Well, I reckon we'd have a massive disagreement on this one. That's ok my brother. We ain't gotta agree on everything, you know? But when a company sells 200 million a year, employes the best copywriters in the world (over 100) and has companies in health, investments, travel, and everything else, I listen up when they talk about copy.

Their best copywriters ear 1 million a year in salary and bonuses. I don't think most copywriters in the investment arena would want to try to beat an Agora control. Not if it's from the Oxford Club/Mike Palmer side.

Their best controls mail millions and millions in the mail. Their International Living control by Bill Bonner hasn't been beat in 20 years. They'll pay a boatload to anyone who can beat it.

Michael feels 80% of the success is in the headline and the lead. His "Big Idea" concept and the concept of knowing when and where to use direct vs. indirect leads is something that no one else taught before him.

Not when you understand how Agora uses Big Ideas, and I've made quite a large study of it.

The 4 u's, the 4 p's, the 4 legged stool, big ideas, transparency, transsubstantiation, core complex, direct and indirect leads.

Those my friend are some pretty hefty contributions to the state of this craft.

Marlon
twitter.com/marlonsanders

[Don Schenk]

Originally Posted by marlon

To discount the quality of the insights? Well, I reckon we'd have a massive disagreement on this one. That's ok my brother. We ain't gotta agree on everything, you know? But when a company sells 200 million a year, employes the best copywriters in the world (over 100) and has companies in health, investments, travel, and everything else, I listen up when they talk about copy.

Their best copywriters ear 1 million a year in salary and bonuses. I don't think most copywriters in the investment arena would want to try to beat an Agora control. Not if it's from the Oxford Club/Mike Palmer side.

Their best controls mail millions and millions in the mail. Their International Living control by Bill Bonner hasn't been beat in 20 years. They'll pay a boatload to anyone who can beat it.

That is why I subscribe to Michael Masterson's Early To Rise newsletter. It comes twice a day and contains some of the best salesletters in the business. I file-save-as all of those letters for my swipe file. It's a free goldmine.

:-Don

[colmodwyer]

Marlon I reckon you've been on the moonshine...

If you didn't get that point, it's probably because you read the course when you were newer in the business and it all wasn't adding up yet.

AWAI is positioned as a beginner's course. Anyone can become a billionaire writing copy! If Vin - a talented copywriter - missed that, then there's not much hope for the rest of us.

The company I work for is trying to hire a new copywriter - we went to the AWAI job fair in November - 4 months on, still no new copywriter.

Michael feels 80% of the success is in the headline and the lead. His "Big Idea" concept and the concept of knowing when and where to use direct vs. indirect leads is something that no one else taught before him.

Caples (and/or Ogilvy) was talking about your headline doing 80% of the selling a long, long time ago.

And the "big idea" is really just a good ol' fashioned "hook."

I can assure you Agora do not hire on the basis of whether you have completed the AWAI course or not - Even if you splashed out $750 for the masters course - I've worked with a copywriter at the top of the Agora totem pole.

Now don't get me wrong - there's a ton of value in the course - but if it was between that and a $20 copy of Tested Advertising Methods, JC can RIP.

Colm

[MikeHumphreys]

Originally Posted by marlon

And your first 3-4 bullets in the letter should all be 5 star. Michael teaches this. If you didn't get that point, it's probably because you read the course when you were newer in the business and it all wasn't adding up yet. I have the Masters Course ($750) and videos from them. Don't know what they teach in the basic course.

Marlon, I read what you have to say and you raise some reasonable points.

To date, I've studied over 40 copywriting books/courses/ebooks/etc. as part of constantly refining my copywriting skills. Not one of them was AWAI.

Why? Quite frankly, their copy has never grabbed me. And for $750, I can grab all of these books and have plenty of money left over:

*Breakthrough Advertising - Eugene Schwartz
*Adweek Copywriting Handbook - Joe Sugarman
* Ultimate Sales Letter - Dan Kennedy (the best book for the complete newbie to learn basic sales letter format IMHO)
* Tested Advertising Methods - John Caples
* The Robert Collier Handbook

With the remaining cash, I could even splurge and grab something from Clayton Makepeace's site like his Steal These Secrets product or Carlton's Kick-Ass course.

I don't think most copywriters in the investment arena would want to try to beat an Agora control. Not if it's from the Oxford Club/Mike Palmer side.

Their best controls mail millions and millions in the mail. Their International Living control by Bill Bonner hasn't been beat in 20 years. They'll pay a boatload to anyone who can beat it.

I wonder if they'd be willing to give Gary Bencivenga, Clayton Makepeace, or Doug D'Anna a crack at beating their controls. My guess is one of these A List copywriters would do exactly that.

Michael feels 80% of the success is in the headline and the lead. His "Big Idea" concept and the concept of knowing when and where to use direct vs. indirect leads is something that no one else taught before him.

Then I'd say he was wrong. The #1 success factor is making the right offer to the right targeted prospect. That's why Halbert always said if he owned a restaurant, all he wanted as a competitive edge was a hungry crowd.

Look, I'm a full-time copywriter. Some of my brethren won't like me saying this but if someone nails the offer, the copy isn't nearly as important to produce positive ROI.

For example...

One hour of private business coaching with world-famous marketer & copywriter Marlon Sanders: $10

Enter quantity here:

Marlon, how many hours of your schedule would you like to fill up?

Take care,

Mike

[Bruce Wedding]

It's humorous seeing people talk about Michael Masterson as if he's a real person.

[marlon]

Hey,

Since no one here has SEEN the Master's course NOR the seminar DVD's of the awaionline trainings, I suspect we are comparing apples to oranges.

Having said that....

1. I know all about Michael Masterson's background. I pulled the original news articles, etc. No surprises for me there. The business paid hefty fines. End of story.

2. Ellen Tribby heads up ETR...early to rise.

Who pray tell do you think had the EXCLUSIVE contract for Clayton's writing for 5 years?
She did when she headed up marketing for Weiss.

And yes, Gary B. is a drop dead writer. I don't think he writes in the financial arena. If you think Agora doesn't hire the best copywriters in the world, you haven't done your homework. Or ask Clayton about them since he publishes articles from their writers on his blog.

3. Agora DID go up against Clayton's controls. And you might should look at the list sizes for Agora vs. Weiss research in SRDS and see who has the best controls. And who has the longest running controls.

4. All the courses mentioned there are must buys. I don't argue that. Caples, Eugene, etc. Great courses that any serious copywriter should own. I own all of them and have read all of them multiple times. Robert Collier, Clyde Bedell, Vic S., Claude Hopkins, all the John Caples books, Gary Halbert newsletters and seminars, Reason Why Advertising....there's nothing old school I haven't read.

And I own most of the new school stuff including Dan Kennedy's courses, etc.

By the way, Schwartz spoke to Agora's team on copy and they have the recording.

5. For the gentleman who couldn't find a writer from Agora's students, try Francis Ardi in Austin. He's a very nice talent. Jim Morris I believe is his name has a very nice portfolio. He's on my Facebook. Can't remember his name.

I've seen resumes and samples from many of their students. They are across the board. But they do have some real finds and talent in there. I personally looked at hiring some of them. They have some polished writers. Mostly diamonds in the rough if you search for them.

Reading a few courses doesn't make you a master copywriter. But it shows you're serious enough to study your craft. That says quite a bit.

6. Big idea as Michael Masterson teaches it is NOT just a hook.

Alright. I'm done with this thread. I don't know about the basic course since I don't own it. But I DO own several of their seminar DVDs and the Master's course.

And yes Caples said that about headlines. But testing the headline and full lead is different from testing headlines only which is what Caples did.

In addition, with their peer review process and mini reviews, they have a very useful system for predicting the success of headlines and leads in a streamlined fashion.

Marlon

[Joshua N. Rabon]

Originally Posted by ChrisBraddock

I'm in posession of 2 AWAI binders ... "Michael Masterson's Accelerated Program For Six-Figure Copywriting" and "The Masters Program For Six-Figure Copywriting." I've read more than once on these forums that these products are -- basically that they're not worth my time. Given my circumstances, do you agree? If so, what 2-3 books should I read, considering my goals?

I got the first 3 or 4 Master's program, and while good I've seen better, if you have both of the full courses you're good to go.

I would also suggest sir Gary Halbert's technique of writing out by hand, winning saleletters several times each. You'll get more skill out of doing that if you copy 4 or 5 winners, than you'll get from reading and trying to understand how stuff works, then you could use what you got to help you improve. It'll hardwire persuasive writing into your subconscious, and one of the greatest of all times thinks it's the best and fastest way to get good. He made his copy cubs (John Carlton & Dan Kennedy) do it decades ago and they've been leaders in the field ever since.

Now I did enjoy the "Master's Program, but at $39 per lesson it wasn't worth it to me. It has gems and great explanations, don't get me wrong, but Makepeacetoalpackage.com's free stuff is at least equally as good.

Also, I agree 1000% with Raydal's video. Get Claude Hopkins for free.

The best stuff I've paid for are Gene Schwartz's "Breakthrough Advertising" and Daniel Levi's "Steal These Secrets".

"Breakthrough Advertising" is considered to be essential by tons of high paid copywriters.

Hope this helps

[herrick]

instead of buying a course what about finding some great letters and practice rewritting them over and over?