Say PLEASE

[Hugh Thyer]

Maybe I'm just getting cranky, but I see so many requests for free critiques and assistance on here that don't use the word 'Please'.

It seems as though a lot of posters think its their right to get free advice.
Nobody here is obliged to give it away.

A lot of good copywriters give up their time freely to help out newbies, and I think people could be more polite when asking for their help.

[Cherilyn Woodhouse]

I do think it is sad that even with all of the article & content writing stuff out of here, copywriters still basically have no place to converse in this forum. It has turned into a critique forum, and little more... *sigh*

[honestbizpro]

Originally Posted by Cherilyn Lester

I do think it is sad that even with all of the article & content writing stuff out of here, copywriters still basically have no place to converse in this forum. It has turned into a critique forum, and little more... *sigh*

Hi Cherilyn!

My radar for opportunity just came on!

I was looking at a pretty well known Warriors New Membership Business and it includes a membership he is building for Copywriters.

Now your comment tells me that a site like that may do well.

[KenStrong]

Originally Posted by Cherilyn Lester

I do think it is sad that even with all of the article & content writing stuff out of here, copywriters still basically have no place to converse in this forum. It has turned into a critique forum, and little more... *sigh*

So.... start a thread or two, then. What do you want to talk about?

[VIPfactor]

I'll remember to use please when i ask for critiques in the next few days.

[Dean Dhuli]

We should probably make this a sticky

...because this thread will slide down in a couple
of days and then nobody will remember about it.

What say moderators?

[KenStrong]

Originally Posted by Dean Dhuli

What say moderators?

You didn't say "please."

[GrantFreeman]

I've seen more requesters that neglect using the word "thank you".

As you said, they aren't obligated to say please or thank you, but you have to ask yourself if you want to continue to spend time helping people that don't have the common courtesy to share those character traits.

I kind of misstated what you said, but it's odd to NOT use those two words together.

Thank you for the thread

Grant

[eric.watson]

Promise to remember my manners in the future! Thank you

[tina0827]

Thanks for the reminder! So often common courtesies are forgotten when you become more familiar with people. Can't tell you how often I find myself forgetting to say "Please" and "Thank You" within my own family.

Good topic for my mom blog! Thanks!

Enjoy the day!

@Tina_Williams
@newoldmom

[Robin E. Anderson]

No, I don't think you're getting cranky but if you are, then I will join you in your crankiness.

I am astounded at the lack of manners not just in the area you mention, but in human interactions in general.I know this forum is about the Internet, but the way in which we conduct ourselves extends to every area of our life, doesn't it?

I use "please" and "thank you" all the time and it takes so little effort. But I am amazed how often I use these words with no response from the other party. I have purchased items from stores and have been made to feel as if I am intruding upon the time of the person helping me. No eye contact, no please or thank you, no effort to appear anything but bored with the interaction. OK, maybe my purchase was only a few dollars, but I should get a little customer service, shouldn't I?

Now I'm on a bit of a tirade, but in the same vein, what happened to acknowledging another driver for letting you over in front of them? Just hold your hand up to say, "thanks!" And if you are crossing in a crosswalk and you are reasonably healthy, walk briskly so the drivers waiting to turn can proceed. What's with the sauntering?

OK, one more and I promise I'll stop. When you squeeze in front of someone to get by or maybe just walk in front of them, just say "excuse me." Even if it's only in the grocery store

These are way off the topic perhaps, but I believe if you try to be considerate of others it will manifest itself in any human interaction, includng the instance cited in this post.

[brookejackson]

I thoroughly agree! I used to work in a bookstore and the customers that were polite always got more help than those who were rude and ignorant. It's natural. And you'd be surprised how much you brighten up someone's day with simple courtesy.

[ldsmedia]

Yea you were a little cranky in the way you worded it, but manners don't seem to be very popular in this dog eat dog world especially in this economy. I've almost been mowed over trying to get into the grocery store, people bump into you and don't even apologize so I guess manners just were not emphasized to many people. My Mom slapped upside the head if I forgot please and thank you or was disrespectful. That being said, sometimes my mind is elsewhere and we all get self-absorbed when things get a bit tough and I forget my manners as well.

Yes I think it is appropriate to remind people to have some manners, but do it with honey not vinegar because a positive attitude always solicits a better response than pure criticism.

[snowtigress]

I don't mind if the please is missing, if the request for help is genuine AND appreciated. THANK YOU is far more important to me because it acknowledges my time and effort. Also, if someone helps you on here, a nice thank you would be to let others know about it. Warrior created a thank you button on here just for that purpose! PLEASE use it. Gratitude creates good karma for all

[sarahberra]

This is true, but I think people are busy that they forget to do this. This is a common thing in our fast paced society. I have two little boys and I drill it into their heads to say please and thank you. I hope it sticks.

[MarkAndrews IMCopywriting]

A simple thank you also goes a long way.

When copywriters here give of their advice each and every time, the very least one might expect to see is a tiny note of thanks, instead of taking the advice for granted, as if it's their God given right to expect that we should help everyone out for free.

The lack of manners sometimes on these kinds of forums is truly astonishing.

[MafiaMaster]

Well, you're raised how you're raised, huh? People don't have manners because their rents didn't teach it to them. It's nice to see that there are people who still try to say please.

[Bigsofty]

It's one of the main reasons I don't post on here much.

Worse, I see a lot of bad advice on the critique section, so it's screwing up for everyone really.

Certainly room for improvement, though I wouldn't want to force anything on anyone.



B.

[BrianMcLeod]

Originally Posted by Bigsofty

It's one of the main reasons I don't post on here much.

And that's a shame...

Worse, I see a lot of bad advice on the critique section, so it's screwing up for everyone really.

No "critique section" here... just a discussion forum about copywriting. Although some tend to treat it as a "free critique section" that's certainly not its purpose nor its best use.

I regularly see more bad attitudes than I see bad advice (don't take that personally, btw. It's not pointed at you!). I see THOUSANDS of dollars worth of GREAT advice given freely here by folks that stay booked all year. Advice from guys the OP couldn't hire in their wildest fantasies. That's VALUE.

If you don't know **** from shinola, it might be more difficult to sift the gold through the mud but that's life in a nutshell – why should a discussion forum be any different?

Further, newb pikers who get excited for a week or two and jump into every thread with "opinions" often create useful jump-off points for those with more experience to DISCUSS the deeper issues they raise (often through mistaken notions or "bad advice").

Can you honestly say that you haven't seen MONSTEROUSLY valuable replies from tremendously talented copywriters here – ones that would never have happened but for someone else giving "bad advice"?

I try to view posts like that as teachable moments. I don't always have the time to get it into it, but I do it when I can. And I've learned a TON from downright stupid topics because of others who view it the same way and jump in to "course correct" the thread.

Now, to be completely honest and fair, I also get frustrated and irritated and shake my head in disgust (sometimes frequently). That's when I know it's time for me to get back to work and get off the forum. : )

Certainly room for improvement, though I wouldn't want to force anything on anyone.

Well, we couldn't even if we DID want to... but my suggestion would be to simply "be the change you want to see".

: )

[Bigsofty]

You mean it's not a critique section?

Yeah, you do see some great tips and insights - that's why I come here to read... In fairness I would be happy to offer critiques and the like but within seconds of posting there's a dozen responses anyway. As this thread points out, not all are thankful for it either.

I think for now I'll keep lurking


B.

[ideapro]

This lack of please and thank you and kindness is common all around the 'net. Forums and chatrooms are so often full of rudeness and steel willed lack of charm that they are often the subject of laws trying to enforce kindness or at least moderation and manners on the Internet. Perhaps it is simply too much to hope for, but I fervently do hope that as the 'net matures, we all begin to "just get along" and learn to be more polite, more gracious, more considerate of other's feelings, and certainly...
to start using please and thank you where possible.

So, thank you for starting this thread. And, thanks to all those who are participating!

[hayfj]

Some proof readers and copywriters can charge anywhere from $100, to $5000 + to proof read or critique a website.

If you've spent your VALUABLE TIME creating the site, then respect the VALUABLE TIME of the people you ask to critique it.

Afterall, one simple little change could make the difference between $0 and $10,000.

As mum used to say, it costs nothing to be polite



Regards


Fraser

[dtendrich]

Lol absolutely agreed, and as such I'm editing a post I just wrote where I violently demanded critique.

My post which once read, "Look this over and give me notes, dammit!"

Now says, "Please looks this over and give me notes, dammit!"

Lol jk.. I share how you feel.

[jennifermL]

hello! yes i agree it was the best way to be polite and to show kindness. thanks for posting... i really appreciate it... Please do the same too...

[rypher21]

practicing this is a good thing..besides saying please is aint that hard..

[dbishop]

Originally Posted by Robin E. Anderson

No, I don't think you're getting cranky but if you are, then I will join you in your crankiness.

I am astounded at the lack of manners not just in the area you mention, but in human interactions in general.I know this forum is about the Internet, but the way in which we conduct ourselves extends to every area of our life, doesn't it?

I use "please" and "thank you" all the time and it takes so little effort. But I am amazed how often I use these words with no response from the other party. I have purchased items from stores and have been made to feel as if I am intruding upon the time of the person helping me. No eye contact, no please or thank you, no effort to appear anything but bored with the interaction. OK, maybe my purchase was only a few dollars, but I should get a little customer service, shouldn't I?

Now I'm on a bit of a tirade, but in the same vein, what happened to acknowledging another driver for letting you over in front of them? Just hold your hand up to say, "thanks!" And if you are crossing in a crosswalk and you are reasonably healthy, walk briskly so the drivers waiting to turn can proceed. What's with the sauntering?

OK, one more and I promise I'll stop. When you squeeze in front of someone to get by or maybe just walk in front of them, just say "excuse me." Even if it's only in the grocery store

These are way off the topic perhaps, but I believe if you try to be considerate of others it will manifest itself in any human interaction, includng the instance cited in this post.

Robin, I don't think it's off topic at all. I think it's the entire problem! There is so little respect shown ANYONE. Of course it's going to extend to the Internet where we have the feel of being anonymous. I, like you, am very concious of social graces and what used to be called common courtesy. Sadly, it's not so common anymore. At least we know there are a few of us left, though.

[fypnlp]

I agree, I can't stand it personally. Afterall, behaving like a decent human being is are one the things in life that are free

[Paul McQuillan]

The please and thank you issue will always be an issue. There is
a large majority of this forum that gets a little bent when we
prod for nice gestures.

To be honest, I like to be thanked when I contribute something of
value (either with a post or hitting the button). I like when people
say please but majority of the forum does not do this stuff.

It will never change as online communication will never be like
face to face. It is what it is. If we don't like it we can go, but
to keep bringing it up only stirs the pot.

As this thread has a lot of fist pumping and 'hell yeah!' the anti
begging for etiquette threads are just as popular.

It is what it is and nobody will change it (however you may get a sticky
thread or a bunch of thanks added to your rep )

[badtzuman]

Thanks For this post. I don't always expect a thank you when I try to contribute, but it sure is nice to be acknowledge. My version of please is "thanks in advance."