How To Pitch A Copywriter If You're Broke But Have A Good Product

[Raydal]

If I got a penny for each time I was pitched to write
copy for below my normal rate because (as the person claims) I would
make a ton of money from the other jobs they have for me and from
the "royalty" from the product sales, then I would be rivaling Warren
Buffet for the #1 spot in Forbes Magazine richest people list.

I thought that I would make it easier for other people armed with
a good product but strapped for cash to make a successful pitch
to a copywriter worth his/her salt.

So first, what NOT to do:

1. Don't try to sell a copywriter. Thinks about it: his job is
to sell so how can you 'outsell' him. Come direct.

2. Don't offer 15% of the sales. If your affiliates get 75% why
do you think that 15% would get your copywriter titillated?

3. Don't say that all your money was spent in product
development, it's like telling your wife how many other women
you had before her. (So you thought about copywriting last huh?

4. Don't promise future jobs. It's obvious if you like their work you'll
give more jobs--it's a stale selling point!

5. Don't try to explain how "easy" and "short" the letter will be.

What to do:

1. Be prepared to show you have some marketing experience. If
this is your first product and you've never marketed before then
how will your product sell? XX% of 0 = 0. So have a marketing
plan to show how you are prepared to promote the product.

2. Show that you are familiar with the copywriter's
work--stroke his ego. We are humans too. did you read their blog,
ebook, a sales letter they wrote, an interesting forum post (like
this one!)--show that you've been 'checking them out'.

3. Have at least 20% of the normal rate to pay upfront. A
copywriter takes on a lot of risk when he writes on a retainer
basis, so don't insult him by paying peanuts upfront. Show that
you are serious about moving forward.

4. Be prepared to show how you will 'declare' the sales
account so the copywriter can be sure you are not ripping him
off. Give access to a paypal account or give screen shots--but
treat the copywriter as you would any other JV partner.

5. Be civil through the whole process, you may have a business
partner for life!

You may truly have the next breakthrough ebook, software,
membership site on the drawing board but no large bank account to
draw from ... and a copywriter could be the final piece in the
marketing puzzle to get your business to the next level .. if you
play your cards right.

Hope this helps ...

-Ray Edwards

[Woody Crenshaw]

I agree with everything that Ray says in the above post.

I would also advise anyone looking for a copywriter that has a great product to be able to explain to the copywriter your offer.

The offer includes the product, plus bonuses, plus the guarantee, etc. No matter how good you product is, if you don't have a great offer, then the copywriter will have a hard time selling the product.

[Kevin Lam]

Raydal, I think you need to get back to work rather than writing all these great advice. The last one was quite superb and you're firing up another one today.

In regards to your advice, if I lower my rates, I lower my rates for certain reasons and getting a percentage is not a determining factor. It's a plus, but not a crucial element in the deal. As professional copywriters, we don't try to nickle and dime and take full advantage of the client (at least I hope we don't) but will certainly accept additional offers on top of our rate.

I always require 50% up front. I get the client to see it as a deposit. Especially being made through PayPal. I have an account with PayPal for more than 8 years and nearly 600 different confirmed transactions - I mention this to clients to let them understand that I'm not here to play them like a fool just to get my account frozen or closed. Plus, this let's them know they can trust me and if they are unhappy, they can certainly have their money back.

I haven't come into the situation where someone tries to barter for my services and I don't think I'll fold.

[Kevin Lam]

One thing I want to add is, if you're getting ready to work with a copywriter, pay careful attention to how much he puts himself into it. More than likely, your copywriter will come up with new approaches and ideas to not only create better copy, but a better product/service as well.

As copywriters, we are very creative already, but just having another set up eyes to look over your product will only help you. Of course, if you end up with a copywriter full of ideas that don't make sense to you, you may have a fake. This isn't always true, especially if you're a total newb and just don't know anything.

Most of the time though, a sound idea from your copywriter WILL make sense. He'll point out things you didn't notice or think of doing before and you'll be in the "ah ha" moment.

[Justin Mandel]

DOH!

Originally Posted by Raydal

3. Don't say that all your money was spent in product
development, it's like telling your wife how many other women
you had before her. (So you thought about copywriting last huh?

[Kevin Lam]

Well, hot-damn, righter after I said I was never in the situation where someone wanted to barter with me, I was offered a 0% down in order to split profits with him and over time get paid for my fees. No can do.

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by netdebut

Well, hot-damn, righter after I said I was never in the situation where someone wanted to barter with me, I was offered a 0% down in order to split profits with him and over time get paid for my fees. No can do.

LOL. I think you just set yourself up.

Once my wife was explaining some medical stuff to my friend
who is a medical doctor and I had to stop and remind her of
his profession.

In the same way I want to stop some potential prospects who
try to sell me their pitch on why I should take them on as
clients for less than my normal fees.

In my mind I'm analyzing their pitch ....

"OK, that's scarcity tactic, urgency, future gains, benefit 1,2,3 ..."

I sometimes smile to myself when sales people on the phone or
in stores try to sell me as well. Of course they are doing their
jobs but it's also time for me to have some gun by throwing up
some imaginary objections.

-Ray Edwards

[Kevin Lam]

LOL, well, we were talking out the terms and then on the 4th message I see him clarifying that he wanted to pay 0% up front. I told him I'd settle with 30% first and if that doesn't do, it's a no deal.

Yeah, I hear ya. It's hard to turn off.

[brucerby]

Ray, thanks for such an appropriate article!....it's so right on target!

I have had EVERY pitch you mentioned aimed at me by prospective clients.

One thing I would add or emphasize is the part about PROVING THE MARKETING.
Specifically, where is the targeted traffic coming from? PPC? JV's? Details matter.
Whats' their own history pulling off an effort like this?

That kind of info can make all the difference in swaying me to take on the project.

The worst cases are where the client-to-be has no idea where traffic will come from and naively thinks if you write a great sales letter, somehow it will just all come together. :-)
LOL!!

I can say, when the right pieces are there, I 've had projects like this be very profitable.
_____
Bruce

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by brucerby

Ray, thanks for such an appropriate article!....it's so right on target!

I have had EVERY pitch you mentioned aimed at me by prospective clients.

One thing I would add or emphasize is the part about PROVING THE MARKETING.
Specifically, where is the targeted traffic coming from? PPC? JV's? Details matter.
Whats' their own history pulling off an effort like this?

That kind of info can make all the difference in swaying me to take on the project.

The worst cases are where the client-to-be has no idea where traffic will come from and naively thinks if you write a great sales letter, somehow it will just all come together. :-)
LOL!!

I can say, when the right pieces are there, I 've had projects like this be very profitable.
_____
Bruce

Hi Bruce,

In a way, copywriters are to blame for selling the idea that
great copy is the "magic wand" towards blockbuster sales.

in promoting our wares we often go overboard in selling the
prospect that once they have good copy then they'll be
ushered in to profit heaven. So this is the time to let them
know that you need a 'hungry crowd' and a "wanted" product.

But get accustomed to prospect trying to sell you on all the
great "future jobs" they'll send your way if you just go easy
on your fees for the first one.

-Ray Edwards

[Hesster]

IMHO, if you're absolutely dead broke but have a good product, you're better off checking out a book or two on copywriting at the library and writing your own. Submit your copy for feedback and improvement on sites like this. Then when your product sells enough so that you can afford to hire a professional, relaunch your product with the professional copy.

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by Hesster

IMHO, if you're absolutely dead broke but have a good product, you're better off checking out a book or two on copywriting at the library and writing your own. Submit your copy for feedback and improvement on sites like this. Then when your product sells enough so that you can afford to hire a professional, relaunch your product with the professional copy.

Doing it for free on your own until you can afford better
seems like a good argument until you realize that time = money!

I often play around with graphic programs to make my own stuff
but I factor in the time it takes me to make a simple ebook cover
my time could be better spent doing what makes me money.

So going the DIY route seems good until you factor in the money
you lose in time 'wasted'.

-Ray Edwards

[Steven Fullman]

Hey, Ray.

I loved your WSO. Your blog's pretty nifty, too.



Ahem...20 percent up front, you say...?

Steve

[ceproductions]

Seems if they could that eloquently pitch it to the copywriter they wouldn't need his services in the first place, ha!

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by Steven Fullman

Hey, Ray.

I loved your WSO. Your blog's pretty nifty, too.



Ahem...20 percent up front, you say...?

Steve

Thanks Steve,

Glad you loved the WSO. I'm surprised more people didn't take
advantage of it but it goes back to full price tomorrow.

Yes, the 20% is suggestive and not a standard for my services.

What I was trying to say is if you don't have at least 20% of the
normal fees then don't expect to be taken seriously. (At least by me.)

So if you have a project in mind and have 20% of the $25K then
we can talk.

-Ray Edwards

[Kyle Tully]

Of course in 99% of cases here are the obvious problems...

Originally Posted by Raydal

1. Be prepared to show you have some marketing experience.

They don't.

Originally Posted by Raydal

2. Show that you are familiar with the copywriter's
work--stroke his ego.

To me this comes off as a lame #1 from your "don't" list. I know I can write copy, that's why I charge thousands of dollars for it, and I see straight through compliments from a freebie-seeker.

Originally Posted by Raydal

3. Have at least 20% of the normal rate to pay upfront.

They don't.

Originally Posted by Raydal

4. Be prepared to show how you will 'declare' the sales
account so the copywriter can be sure you are not ripping him
off.

Proof you'll pay me doesn't matter when I know you can't market the product effectively anyway. Cause guaranteed profits from $0 sales is still $0.

Originally Posted by Raydal

5. Be civil through the whole process, you may have a business
partner for life!

Ah, if only life were so easy

I know where you're coming from with this post but I think it just encourages people to hassle more copywriters to work on performance.

The thing is, anyone who can market a product effectively generally has money in the bank and knows the value of a copywriter.

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by Kyle Tully

I know where you're coming from with this post but I think it just encourages people to hassle more copywriters to work on performance.

The thing is, anyone who can market a product effectively generally has money in the bank and knows the value of a copywriter.

Hi Kyle,

Your last paragraph contradicted everything you said. If they DON'T
meet the qualification, as you claimed, how could this encourage them
to hassle copywriters?

You said that 99% don't meet the qualification so shouldn't my post
do the opposite of what you are claiming?

Hmmm ...

-Ray Edwards

[Kyle Tully]

If people were logical, rational beings... then yes.

But we both know that's not the case.

Of the 5 "what to do's", 4 can easily be faked/fudged/forged or are just common sense.

And the other one, having 20% cash up front, is ALWAYS the stickler -- I'm sure we've all seen how they try and negotiate their way out of that one.

So now, in their mind at least, they have 4/5 and a "strong" negotiating tactic for the 5th.

I would be SHOCKED if this post didn't get more marketers trying to get more copywriters to write on performance.

The bottom line is in most cases marketers who want performance-based deals, and copywriters who need to take them, neither of them can pull off their end of the deal.

It's lose - lose.

[Raydal]

Well, I don't hold the same view as you on performance work. It's not
the ideal, but it's not the worst case either. I've had clients who had
more product than money and those deals paid me multiple thousands
of dollars.

-Ray Edwards

[Trader54]

Originally Posted by Kyle Tully

The bottom line is in most cases marketers who want performance-based deals, and copywriters who need to take them, neither of them can pull off their end of the deal.

I have heard of some great copywriters that work a lot on performance based deals
so your wrong on that count. Of course you have to be a copywriter that believes
he can pull it off.

[Kyle Tully]

Originally Posted by Trader54

I have heard of some great copywriters that work a lot on performance based deals
so your wrong on that count. Of course you have to be a copywriter that believes
he can pull it off.

I said in most cases.

I've done performance work in the past and profited greatly.

But I've spoken with many up-n-coming copywriters and 99% of the performance-based deals people offer them are just plain bad.

The "you have to be a copywriter that believes he can pull it off" is an argument marketers use all the time.

Problem is, copy comes third on the list behind list and offer -- and THIS is where most of the problems are

[Doug]

I completely understand where you are coming from with your OP Ray, I really do. I tend to lean heavily in agreement with what Kyle is trying to articulate.

The reason being, is the marketing savvy both of you possess. Ray, your savvy guides you through the process of even considering a 'pay for performance' opportunity. By this I mean you will know just how far you are willing to proceed with any person and their offer at any given moment through the process. Kyle's savvy steers him clear from the 'get go.' He just isn't going to entertain the idea of 'pay by performance.'

Where I agree with Kyle, it's on two counts really...first is the 99% statement of Kyle's, he's right. Second, his comment, "I would be SHOCKED if this post didn't get more marketers trying to get more copywriters to write on performance," takes just 1 marketer to fulfill the comment.

It doesn't make sense to go the pay for performance route when 'time = money,' particularly considering there are enough cash in hand people now needing work completed.

Again, I understand you are offering a potential carrot for the cash strapped marketer and that is cool. I just disagree with your approach since most everything boils down to the marketing experience of the individual. Even paid copy jobs can bit you in the backside if the marketer blames your copy over their failure in marketing ability...this happens frequently enough.

If a person is broke, and marketing is their hopeful endeavor, the better skill would be their learning copywriting rather than deal making. IMHO

Doug

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by Doug

Again, I understand you are offering a potential carrot for the cash strapped marketer and that is cool.

Doug

Well, you agree with Kyle and so came to the same conclusion like
him. I would like to see where in my post I offer a carrot.

-Ray Edwards

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Raydal

Well, you agree with Kyle and so came to the same conclusion like
him. I would like to see where in my post I offer a carrot.

-Ray Edwards

Below is where I would say you sum everything up into that 'carrot' I wrote about. And I realize that you say "copywriter could be" & "if you play your cards right" which leaves room for the entire concept not working out for the individual...but why not just tell people, if they believe they have a real winner on their hands, to provide a complete free review copy to the selected copywriter and explain their position?

I believe a savvy copywriter could quickly discern whether or not they wanted to proceed given the chance to review the actual product.

Regards,
Doug

Originally Posted by Raydal

You may truly have the next breakthrough ebook, software, membership site on the drawing board but no large bank account to draw from ... and a copywriter could be the final piece in the marketing puzzle to get your business to the next level .. if you play your cards right.

[Raydal]

OK, I could see how that last paragraph could be interpreted
as thus, but if you read all my articles you'll see I end all
of them on that positive note of "all the best using this
information". It's not particular to this post.

-Ray Edwards

[vistad]

Basically what this has amounted to is that if you are a first time marketeer with no money to spare, write the copy yourself.
If you are not a first time marketeer and can produce 50% of the amount required you may be able to get a copywriter interested in a transparent split deal.
This leaves the question as to the basis on which copywriters charge?

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Raydal

OK, I could see how that last paragraph could be interpreted
as thus, but if you read all my articles you'll see I end all
of them on that positive note of "all the best using this
information". It's not particular to this post.

-Ray Edwards

Good Morning Ray,
I pay particular attention to your 'stuff' Ray, not just for your quality but also because of the spirit in your intent...I believe that to be genuine toward helping others at all times. Please keep at it!

All the best,
Doug

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by Doug

Good Morning Ray,
I pay particular attention to your 'stuff' Ray, not just for your quality but also because of the spirit in your intent...I believe that to be genuine toward helping others at all times. Please keep at it!

All the best,
Doug

Hi Doug,

Thanks for pointing that out. I try my best to give back and help
as much people as possible. I'm not always successful but I keep
on trying anyway.

-Ray Edwards