Any killer copywriters who will guarantee their results?

[Collette]

Originally Posted by searchnology

You are off topic and only provide conjecture as evidence...it's easy to say "Lot's of people do this and that...." but another to provide evidence.....not even a single website or name is provided to support your argument???

I could say the same for you.

And you are perhaps unfamilar with the use of a search engine?

Originally Posted by searchnology

If you are good, you CAN reasonably do it with a controlled split test and if you are good you will also easily recognize that it won't be a feasible task and won't offer it up. Think outside the box and make it worth your's and the client's while.

Split tests cannot account for outside factors. They cannot tell you if the stock market just crashed, the only factory in town just closed, or a tornado just hit. A split can only give you the results of measurable factors.

I know Vin recommends that his clients split test. So do I. So do the other copywriters I respect. And we ALL offer rewrites as part of our service offer.

You've obviously been working with some real amateurs.

The copywriter is not your adversary. He is a part of your team.

[MontelloMarketing]

Originally Posted by searchnology

Come on ...that's the same tired reasoning??....An A/B split test would take into account variables for both versions of the copy. That argument is squashed.

It squashes an excuse... not the argument. And I wasn't using it as an excuse.

The argument is whether copy can be guaranteed. I'm not saying controls can't be beat as proof... or that controls can't stand as proof. I'm saying you can't hold back a guy's check because your project tanked.

Yes, you WILL miss and loose time on some projects (all guaranteed services must pay up from time to time) but in the end I think it would only serve to 1) sharpen your skills 2) Improve your reputation. Over time you learn how to structure this type of offer.

Sorry... you haven't yet shown a business where this is the case. Do I only pay my stock broker if my trades make money? Do I only pay for my lawyer if I don't go to jail? Do I only pay my accountant if he keeps me from having to pay taxes?

No.

And it seems only web businesses expect this deal. You don't get paid for the commercial you write only if it sells more toothpaste. The "penalty" for non-performance is not getting hired by Crest again.

Copywriters who write offline don't get paid only if the sales letter makes money. In fact they get paid their fees and receive a royalty! Usually not one based on sales but on pieces mailed.

Once again, if a deal isn't reasonable then walk away(Dominos didn't guarantees pizza delivery in 30 minutes to anywhere in the world..right?)

Actually Dominos discontinued that guarantee when their drivers ran over too many pedestrians trying to keep from giving out free pizzas. (No joke)

...but if you KNOW(in your professional opinion) that the copy is bad why not say "Hell yeah...I can get you a lift and I'll guarantee it" THAT'S POWERFUL!!

Sure... when there are situations where you can look at something and say to yourself "I can tweak this and increase sales" sure. But to base your livlihood on that? I wouldn't do it because I don't have to. That's a game for someone unproven to play. Someone desperate to make a name for themselves. They are the ones who always make those kinds of promises.

But you know...

If you peel back the layers this practice in general is not fair at all.

Copywriter puts 50 hours into a sales letter and it tanks... he gets stiffed on his money. He's taking all the risk. All 50 of his hours at risk. What risk is the marketer taking? And in the end the marketer has the majority of the gain to make!

Marketer throws a grand at ppc... it tanks so he stiffs the copywriter and moves on to the next guy with a guarantee.

Good luck winning that game!

A "guarantee to tweak" based on tests is one thing. A "you don't get paid unless it works" deal is garbage.

Tweaking is part of the business. I never leave my clients hanging. If something's not working we try to find out why and fix it.

Luckily I have a high success rate. Because of it, some clients actually pay my rate AND give bonuses for milestones.

That's the real way to get a guarantee. Pay a fair rate and offer performance bonuses.

You want to talk tired reasoning? Tired reasoning is that a copywriter doesn't deserve to be paid for his time just because your product tanked.