If you're hiring a copywriter, avoid this

[Kevin Lam]

If you're trying to hire a copywriter, avoid trying to barter with him and paying nothing up front. I had a guy who found my site through Google, requested a free analysis on a $1,000 budget. I told him my minimum price, he asks to make some sort of deal.

I offered to do the copywriting and marketing for $x,xxx but I'd get 50% profit off of his sales until I get $7,500 and then I'd lower my percentage (to probably 20%) for a while. He counters with saying I could have the first $1,500 and then we'd split 50/50.

I'm sorry, who in the right mind would do the copywriting AND the marketing for free in hopes of making commissions? I don't know the product. I haven't had it in my hands to look over. And if this guy can't afford me when he's trying to sell a $499 product based on trading, what kind of crap is he trying to pull on someone else?

You guys might not now this, but I'm catching up or beating SEO firms in the Dallas area and Texas over-all that had been around since 1995. I.E. We're on the first page for: dallas texas marketing, dallas seo, seo dallas, texas marketing , texas search engine marketing, texas seo and many more.

I could easily generate more traffic to his site and if his product is as good as he claims, he'd be banking $20k-$30k/month.

Anyway, if you're like him, don't even bother contacting a copywriter. Well, don't bother contacting me at least. You can't get something for nothing. I'm willing to work out a deal, but I can't work for free up front. That's just nonsense.

[dvduval]

Yea, it's one thing to get commissions in addition to payment for services, but no way a writer should be working commission only unless there is a well established relationship with the customer that provides regular return, and even then be careful.

[dorothydot]

Absolutely right, Kevin.

Potential clients must respect your training and expertise. Once your words leave your possession, you lose all control. Your client can cut and run and you're left with little hold over him - short of legal, assuming you had a binding contract of some sort.

I always insist on at least half up front - all of it up front from new clients - and the other half due once I've completed the first draft. This is clearly spelled out at the first conference call.

Of course you can offer discounts - but that is totally at YOUR discretion, not the clients. I usually cut fellow Warriors a steep percentage off for the first project - sometimes they understand and appreciate this, sometimes it's still wayyy beyond their budget.

Kind of like your service = a pearl - sometimes the receiver comprehends the beauty and value you offer, sometimes the receiver is, ummm, totally oblivious and just greedily demands another pearl for less than a quarter the value of the first pearl.

Hope this helps,
Dot

[Loren Woirhaye]

Good stuff Kevin. I looked at your site too, and I'm impressed
with just about every aspect of your presentation.

There are always a lot of folks out there looking to get something
for nothing. They have their reasons. There's a big secret
about entrepreneurs (revealed to me by Ted Nicholas)...

"they don't have any money"

Gary Halbert had a story about guys who would call him and
tell him what big shots they were, how they were prepared to
spend a quarter-mil on launching their product with direct
mail, and just wanted to "mastermind" with him to see if he
was the right copywriter for their project.

This happened so often Halbert would say, "fine, I'll mastermind
with you - I won't even charge you because you're a
prospective client and I do want to do business. Just do
this for me to show me you're serious - send a $500 cashiers
check as a donation to the Miami Children's Hospital for me -
I'll call them and make sure they got it. Then I'm all yours
for a masterminding session."

He said he never heard back from "those" guys.

Good way to handle the tirekickers I reckon.

That being said, I don't think it's a good idea to be arrogant
with prospective clients or especially jealous with your ideas.
I've noticed helping people out, as long as it's not a big time-suck,
is a sort of good karma.

[Raydal]

Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye

Gary Halbert had a story about guys who would call him and
tell him what big shots they were, how they were prepared to
spend a quarter-mil on launching their product with direct
mail, and just wanted to "mastermind" with him to see if he
was the right copywriter for their project.
....
He said he never heard back from "those" guys.

Good way to handle the tirekickers I reckon.

That's funnny. It takes Halbert to tell a story like that.
Ever seen the cap he wore to seminars that read: Clients Suck! ?

You want to be helpful and pleasant to potential clients, but
after you are in the business for while you learn to read the
warning signs.

I can tell whether a potential client is serious or not just
by how he fills the query form. There have been a few
surprises, but very few.

You must also be able to judge whether a question is to
get free consultation from you or a serious concern. You
don't have to spill your guts on an initial query. In fact,
if you tell too much it's a sign that you are desperate for
the job and that prospect disappears.

Being a good copywriter and running a good copywriting
BUSINESS are night and day apart. They are two different
skills altogether.

-Ray Edwards

[Kevin Lam]

Thank you for the support, guys. I'd actually like to do a WSO that is a combination of my copywriting and SEO skills. I may save it 'til next week or something. I know I can't do more than 3-5 if I want to run my own projects and launch a product or 2 next month.

Loren, thank you, I feel proud for being able to impress you. Those are definitely some good ways of picking out the serious clients, but I just got an email. The person accepted my counter terms, which was $x,xxx up front and then we work on it together. After I've collected $7,500 in earnings, I'll lower my commissions to only 20% there after. It's a great deal for him and it's just enough for me.

[Loren Woirhaye]

Originally Posted by Kevin Lam

Loren, thank you, I feel proud for being able to impress you.

Cool. I don't read a lot of books about corporate practices but
I did read this one about Starbucks recently - "the Starbucks Experience" -
the key message was "all business is detail" - and with web-marketing,
just like in a service business like Starbucks, the attention to small
details tends to add up to an impression of great value. You've
crafted your website carefully, and to a guy who knows how much
work and thought goes into such things it's obvious - to your client's
maybe not so much - but I can see you're burning the midnight oil.

As Claude Hopkins writes:

"The advertising man who spares the midnight oil will never get very far."

[Kevin Lam]

Wow, very good detective work, lol. I'll be honest, I do burn past the midnight oil for many nights to get it to where it is now. There's many nights more before I get it to where I want it to be. I have people helping me, but I have a specific way of doing things so I tend to have to do it myself anyway.

Not that all client websites need this much attention, but for me to be the service provider, I must give it my all and make sure it's top notch. It's all about talking the talk and walking the walk. I can't tell others to follow certain principles or or concepts if I'm not doing it myself.

[danyray]

Kevin,
I looked at your site it is very impressive and shows you are a pro. I will add my 2 Cents to this tread reminding you that there are people with caviar taste and hamburger budgets that will always try to get something out of their league, its just how things are. Developing the techniques to weed them out is what sensible business people normally do anyway. Your request will be most likely read by those that will not do it anyway, those that need to read it, are elsewhere...

Dany

[Kevin Lam]

Hey Dany,

Thank you for the compliment and taking a look. Yeah, they're every where, but we all have a choice. There are folks I turn away and some folks I enjoy working with. There are people I ignore and even avoid. It's all a part of life. I always tell my wife that "e-jits are everywhere". It's my way of not being serious about people who get on my nerves.