Ok, Copywriting Experts - Rip Me a New One

[Ron Douglas]

I decided not to shell out $10k plus for this copy job. I know, I'm a cheap and stubborn idiot.

However, I'm just trying to make the best of it and looking for honest feedback. Any constructive criticism is appreciated:

Lose Weight Fast - RAM Fat Loss System

Thanks,

Ron

[Kevin Lam]

Ron,

Call me an idiot, but I don't need to even read it. It will do just fine. You have all the right elements in the right places. It would take a true moron to mess this one up. Usually, I wouldn't want a video at the top, but that video is perfect. Just get people there and you'll be banking. Good luck, Ron.

Just some small changes. Search for "weightloss", it should be two words. Found that in 2 places. In Tammey Brown's testimonial she has "him him". But yeah, I think you did an awesome job on it.

I mean, the graphics is spot on, the headline is targeting a very exact audience, the salutation is right on, images are used in very good places,.. okay, now I'm reading it, lol.

Actually, if there's anything I could change, I'd chill out on the bolding towards the beginning. There's a bit too much in the first 4 paragraphs. I'd want to unbold the text in paragraph 1 and 2 after the salutation.

...okay, the more I read it, the more changes I want to make. It doesn't follow the slippery slide principles that Joe Sugarman has so graciously talks about. Anyway, overall, it's still a great sales letter. I think you'll do great.

But just to do my part, here's what I'd prefer it to say:

Dear Weight Loss Hopeful,

If you've already tried every diet and workout program you've ever seen only to be frustrated and disgusted when all the weight and more lands back on your body, then it's time to learn how ordinary people, just like you, really lose weight and keep it off permanently.

We know what it's like when you see your initial success go down hill. It makes you want to quit. It makes you feel bad about the way you look and it makes you feel unattractive.

Take it from us, that is no way to go through life. You have to make a change that will truly change your life for the better... for yourself and for your family.

Taking that first step is always the most difficult but we are living proof that you can do it, regardless of your personal situation.

It doesn’t matter what your current weight issues or struggles are. Some may be minor, others may be life threatening. You may need to lose 100 pounds or an extra 10 pounds, but regardless of your circumstances, the solution is the same.

[Ron Douglas]

Thanks for the excellent feedback Kevin.

[Kevin Lam]

Btw, I just noticed that there's a gap in your graphics between the header and the content area. I'm using FF3. It's fine in IE8 though.

[Ron Douglas]

Originally Posted by Kevin Lam

Btw, I just noticed that there's a gap in your graphics between the header and the content area. I'm using FF3. It's fine in IE8 though.

Yeah, I noticed that also. The exit application is a bit quirky and caused the gap. Still trying to figure out how to fix that for FF.

[DougBarger]

Looks good Ron.

[Ken Strong]

Originally Posted by DougBarger

Looks good Ron.

Aw, come on, Doug -- you call that ripping him a new one? You can do better than that!

[Kevin Lam]

If I have time tonight, I'll step in and take a look. Not making any promises.

[DougBarger]

Originally Posted by KenStrong

Aw, come on, Doug -- you call that ripping him a new one? You can do better than that!

Haha. You're right Ken.

Okay, as I had said earlier, Ron, I think it's a great looking salesletter.

Here are a couple of things you could test to improve conversions.

With the pre-head, you could align it left instead of center since
we read from left-to-right, it will reach the eyes faster and pull
them into the headline.

With the headline, you can test putting it in quotes since
doing so according to some tests have increased
readership by 23%, which of course, we know the more
reading it,> the more salescopy they absorb>, which the more
sold on it they are,> which means more buyers for
the same amount of traffic.

Hope this helps and it looks great!

Doug

PS. How's that Ken, a bit better man?

[Kevin Lam]

I don't agree with the pre-head being aligned to the left. That would just look stupid. It stays where it is, but I'd have it remove one word "Even" and also un-italicize the whole sentence.

As for the headline, yes, putting it in quotes and italicizing it will be best. I'd also add "They" in front of "Used". "10 Pounds" on one line will be much more appealing. Still, it's hard to mess this up. Even without all of these changes, I think it will do great simply because of the exposure both Bill and Jim had from the media. They practically sell themselves.

It's like having Michael Jordan say "Yo, buy my b-ball aye't!" That might not be how he talks, but his reputation speaks for the ball and people will buy. It's the same way here. As long as the buying process is easy and there's a good OTO on the other side, they should make a killing.

[Ken Strong]

Originally Posted by DougBarger

PS. How's that Ken, a bit better man?

Well, you didn't really rip him a new one -- more like mussed his a little bit. But we'll work on it.

[DougBarger]

Regardless if someone else agrees or thinks it 'looks stupid', Ron, I stand
behind the suggestion of testing having the pre-head be on the left because
I know you're like me in that you don't think increased conversions 'look stupid'
and that's most likely the kind of feedback you were looking for- suggestions
to test based on experience which would be worth a test to see how it works for you.

[Ron Douglas]

Originally Posted by DougBarger

Regardless if someone else agrees or thinks it 'looks stupid', Ron, I stand
behind the suggestion of testing having the pre-head be on the left because
I know you're like me in that you don't think increased conversions 'look stupid'
and that's most likely the kind of feedback you were looking for- suggestions
to test based on experience which would be worth a test to see how it works for you.

It actually is left justified. The inner table isn't as wide as the template and the text spans the entire table which give it the appearance of being centered.

I added the quotes as you suggested though.

[DougBarger]

Hey Ron,

Looks good man. One further edit you can add would be to press the alt key and type 0147 for opening quotes and 0148 for close quotes on your numbers keypad.
(Just hold down the Alt-key while typing the 0147 and then the 0148).

What this will do is to make the quotation marks actual real quotation marks
instead of the marks people most often use which look more like the way to
measure inches.

But yeah, looks like money in the bank. Great stuff.

[Kevin Lam]

Originally Posted by DougBarger

Regardless if someone else agrees or thinks it 'looks stupid', Ron, I stand behind the suggestion of testing having the pre-head be on the left because
I know you're like me in that you don't think increased conversions 'look stupid'
and that's most likely the kind of feedback you were looking for- suggestions
to test based on experience which would be worth a test to see how it works for you.

Doug, chill out, I'm not even going to start about how you sound right now. From the way the text was presented, it looks quite even on both sides so it appears to look centered. I thought you were wanting it further left of where it is already - as in further left than the headline. You obviously didn't know it was already aligned left neither. That's not a real suggestion when the guy is already doing it.

[DougBarger]

Hey there Kevin.

I'm as chilled out as they come. Yes, the pre-head is now to the left of
the headline. It was a real suggestion I gave based on testing and experience
which can improve results. I didn't miss anything. To the contrary, you
had said the suggestion I had made to have the pre-head be to the left
of the headline would (in your words) "look stupid."

Bottom line is the suggestion I made to put the headline in quotes is definitely worth testing because it's been proven to work over thousands of tests, salesletters and years of experience by many copywriters.

Not sure what you mean by "how you sound right now" as I've only offered
constructive criticism to help improve conversions of a letter just as Ron requested.

If you have some problem with others offering help then that is definitely not
in the spirit of this forum.

I don't care if you thought it was stupid or not. The suggestions I've offered
have worked well for me, my clients and many, many others and as always
I suggest he tested to see what works best for him.

The results will speak for themselves.

[Kevin Lam]

Doug,

No one is here to pick a fight over a pre-headline. It wasn't even anything personal. It's not like I'm saying you're stupid or something. As I had mentioned, it appeared to be centered due to the right number of characters used, but Ron mentioned that it was ALREADY aligned left. When you suggested that it be aligned left, I was assuming it would be further left than the headline - that would then be stupid. Since it's not the case at all, it simply doesn't matter.

As for the way you sound, don't even worry about it. It's just me and English as a second language. Perhaps I don't read and understand it very well. I apologize for upsetting you, but there's no point getting all worked up about it. Let's just go on with our busy schedule and and call it a night.

[DougBarger]

Originally Posted by Kevin Lam

Doug,

No one is here to pick a fight over a pre-headline. It wasn't even anything personal. It's not like I'm saying you're stupid or something. As I had mentioned, it appeared to be centered due to the right number of characters used, but Ron mentioned that it was ALREADY aligned left. When you suggested that it be aligned left, I was assuming it would be further left than the headline - that would then be stupid. Since it's not the case at all, it simply doesn't matter.

As for the way you sound, don't even worry about it. It's just me and English as a second language. Perhaps I don't read and understand it very well. I apologize for upsetting you, but there's no point getting all worked up about it. Let's just go on with our busy schedule and and call it a night.

Hey Kevin,

I had no idea English was your second language since you speak it
so fluently. No harm intended here either. Sounds like a plan.

Goodnight.

[Michael Silvester]

Hi Ron,

Is this page generating sales right now? Do you have
a split testing facility? Because I would do an a/b
split test. 1 with the header and 1 without.

It would be interesting to see if your test results?

Take Care,

Michael Silvester

[Ron Douglas]

Here's a question that I plan to test but I'd like some opinions on:

The product is all digital - there is nothing to ship. However, similar to many other Clickbank products I'm using a pretty image of a bundled product package with books, reports, cds, etc.

As I said, I plan to test it. However, my initial thought was it helps to increase the perceived value of the program. My second thought was maybe there is a bit of a let down effect when people read that it's actually a digital product. I'm showing the image, but I'm being transparent about the product in the textual description.

In your experience, does that help or hurt conversions?

[Justin Mandel]

Hey Ron,

I did a very brief scan and the copy looks good

As far as concerns about people realizing that they are NOT getting a physical product you can integrate into the copy the positive benefits people will experience by getting the digital download -

"You can get started immediately. With the digital download you will *instantly* be able to put into place the very same system that Bob and Jim used to experience their miraculous weight loss and shed pounds on your own starting in no time flat!"

*I'm not sure if their names are Bob and Jim!

[Scott Murdaugh]

Ron,

If I had those guys endorsing a diet program I'd make it a shipped physical product.

I'd probably keep the upfront price similar, and just ship the diet plan in physical form, maybe some DVD's for the videos, whatever...

I would also have some major back end continuity going on... Branded supplements, personal training membership site, I'd milk it for everything I can get.

That stuff would require you to take it off of Clickbank, and for this product I think that's a smart move anyway. If you play your cards right this can be worth A LOT more than a one time $77 payment.

The sales letter looks great and I'm sure you'll make some cash no matter what approach you take.

Good luck!

-Scott

EDIT: Forgot to "Rip You A New One"...

Ron,

You have an endorsement that could EASILY be worth MILLIONS of dollars...

In my opinion, you'd be an idiot to keep the product the way you have it, as a digital Clickbank product...

Clickbank is going to kill you here. This isn't Fatloss4idiots... It could be much MUCH more than that, but only if you play your cards right.

Get this off of Clickbank, make it a REAL physical product that ships out... Run orders through a merchant account and keep your affiliate program in house.

You don't need Clickbank for affiliates... If you do what I suggest I'd promote this all day long, and so would a lot of people, without Clickbank.

So, you have the physical product, that immediately increases the perceived value... And fulfillment and distribution costs will be insignificant BECAUSE...

You need to focus on the back end... Get a diet pill or supplement branded. I don't know the details of the actual diet plan, but if you can make a proprietary supplement a part of it do it...

Get a membership site going... maybe you're already planning this, I don't know.

Have an up-sell on the membership site to personal one on one consulting with Bill and Jim or something...

Make the forced continuity in both programs optional...

So on your checkout page you'd have 3 check boxes. They see the first box that says...

"YES! I'm ready to lose weight and keep it off once and for all! Rush me Bill and Jim's blah blah..."

And then a check box, already checked, that says something like....

"YES! I want to lose weight as quickly and safely as possible, please send me my FREE trial of Bill and Jim's power pills (whatever)... I understand that this is the EXACT formula that allowed Bill and Jim to lose a combined 426 lbs... I understand that I will be shipped a new bottle every month for only $49.95 and that I may cancel anytime.

And then another check box, already checked, that says...

"I'm Serious About Losing Weight Once And For All! I want to get MAXIMUM results in the least amount of time possible... Please sign me up for Bill and Jim's personal training club blah blah"

There are a few ways to go about it and you would of course test to see what works...

But it's not forced continuity, it's optional. And you can promote the back end continuity products in the main product itself.

Will this product make you money as is? Yes.

Would this product make you 10x more money if you take it in the direction I'm suggesting here? I'd bet my life savings on it.

Peace,

-Scott

P.S. The "you'd be an idiot" comment was in the spirit of "ripping you a new one"... It's not personal and you've landed this endorsement, you're obviously not an idiot.

P.P.S. If you're considering my advice on any level, and you want some help implementing everything, shoot me a PM... I'd love to get my hands dirty with this one.

[Matt James]

I decided not to shell out $10k plus for this copy job. I know, I'm a cheap and stubborn idiot.

Yes Ron, you are. No offence

The copy is ok but really... with that kind of endorsment and proof you should shell out on a top copy guy to turn it into a blockbuster sales page.

I'm guessing this will get a helluva lot of traffic so even a 0.5% increase in conversions will make a bundle more sales.

I also kind of agree with not using Clickbank as Scott said, but it is a great place to recruit your affiliates who can help you build the list. Then of course you can wheel out the big ticket item further down the line.

[Ron Douglas]

Originally Posted by Matt James

Yes Ron, you are. No offence

The copy is ok but really... with that kind of endorsment and proof you should shell out on a top copy guy to turn it into a blockbuster sales page.

I'm guessing this will get a helluva lot of traffic so even a 0.5% increase in conversions will make a bundle more sales.

I also kind of agree with not using Clickbank as Scott said, but it is a great place to recruit your affiliates who can help you build the list. Then of course you can wheel out the big ticket item further down the line.

One of the copywriters who wrote FatLoss4Idiots actually did the copy. I was able to get him for under $1k because or their celebrity status and because he wanted this project on his resume.

[Ron Douglas]

Originally Posted by scottspfd82

Ron,

If I had those guys endorsing a diet program I'd make it a shipped physical product.

I'd probably keep the upfront price similar, and just ship the diet plan in physical form, maybe some DVD's for the videos, whatever...

I would also have some major back end continuity going on... Branded supplements, personal training membership site, I'd milk it for everything I can get.

That stuff would require you to take it off of Clickbank, and for this product I think that's a smart move anyway. If you play your cards right this can be worth A LOT more than a one time $77 payment.

The sales letter looks great and I'm sure you'll make some cash no matter what approach you take.

Good luck!

-Scott

EDIT: Forgot to "Rip You A New One"...

Ron,

You have an endorsement that could EASILY be worth MILLIONS of dollars...

In my opinion, you'd be an idiot to keep the product the way you have it, as a digital Clickbank product...

Clickbank is going to kill you here. This isn't Fatloss4idiots... It could be much MUCH more than that, but only if you play your cards right.

Get this off of Clickbank, make it a REAL physical product that ships out... Run orders through a merchant account and keep your affiliate program in house.

You don't need Clickbank for affiliates... If you do what I suggest I'd promote this all day long, and so would a lot of people, without Clickbank.

So, you have the physical product, that immediately increases the perceived value... And fulfillment and distribution costs will be insignificant BECAUSE...

You need to focus on the back end... Get a diet pill or supplement branded. I don't know the details of the actual diet plan, but if you can make a proprietary supplement a part of it do it...

Get a membership site going... maybe you're already planning this, I don't know.

Have an up-sell on the membership site to personal one on one consulting with Bill and Jim or something...

Make the forced continuity in both programs optional...

So on your checkout page you'd have 3 check boxes. They see the first box that says...

"YES! I'm ready to lose weight and keep it off once and for all! Rush me Bill and Jim's blah blah..."

And then a check box, already checked, that says something like....

"YES! I want to lose weight as quickly and safely as possible, please send me my FREE trial of Bill and Jim's power pills (whatever)... I understand that this is the EXACT formula that allowed Bill and Jim to lose a combined 426 lbs... I understand that I will be shipped a new bottle every month for only $49.95 and that I may cancel anytime.

And then another check box, already checked, that says...

"I'm Serious About Losing Weight Once And For All! I want to get MAXIMUM results in the least amount of time possible... Please sign me up for Bill and Jim's personal training club blah blah"

There are a few ways to go about it and you would of course test to see what works...

But it's not forced continuity, it's optional. And you can promote the back end continuity products in the main product itself.

Will this product make you money as is? Yes.

Would this product make you 10x more money if you take it in the direction I'm suggesting here? I'd bet my life savings on it.

Peace,

-Scott

P.S. The "you'd be an idiot" comment was in the spirit of "ripping you a new one"... It's not personal and you've landed this endorsement, you're obviously not an idiot.

P.P.S. If you're considering my advice on any level, and you want some help implementing everything, shoot me a PM... I'd love to get my hands dirty with this one.

I have some ideas for a physical product, however there are certain limitations with my partnership with them. They have a book deal in the works and are reluctant to turn the ebook into a physical book. I'm working on some other alternatives however.

[Matt James]

One of the copywriters who wrote FatLoss4Idiots actually did the copy. I was able to get him for under $1k because or their celebrity status and because he wanted this project on his resume.

Haha - oops! I notice you say 'one' of the copywriters? Anyway Ron, you know the secret to Fat Loss 4 Idiot's success... waves of traffic from every single corner of the net.

I still think the copy's a little generic for something with so much potential. And you're still cheap

[MaskedMarketer]

Originally Posted by scottspfd82

You need to focus on the back end... Get a diet pill or supplement branded.

IMO this is way more important than improving the copy.

The copy is already good enough.

What type of backend is on this offer? Any Rebills?

Is there an expected CLV for your new customers?

This is a perfect offer for rebill and I wouldn't launch it with out any rebill.

Good luck on your project Ron. Let us know how it goes.

[Revolves]

I am not a copywriter as such, so I looked at your page as a layman. The copy indeed looks great, and I did not have a "repelling" feeling that most bad copies tend to have. The colors are great, and pleasant to the eyes. Just gotta say, good job!

[julesbrad]

Hi Ron

Not about your copy but thought you may be interested that the UK version of "Biggest Loser" DVD has just been released today (link from amazon-uk below)

Not sure if there is anything you can do to capitalise on the UK traffic which will be being created at present as the DVD is being TV advertised.

The Biggest Loser - The Workout [DVD]: Amazon.co.uk: DVD