How To Offer Bad Copywriting Advice That Sounds Legit.

9 years ago

Tip 1: keep it simple. Don't write long just because.

Tip 2: break up the text for readability. She uses a dash, which I disagree with, but the point stands.

Tip 3: refresh the view so you can look at it with a critical eye. Don't necessarily agree with the changing the font thing, but also a valid point.

So I'm not sure what's so blatantly wrong or bad about these. She's not quite so clear on the points she's made (example: tip 2 is really about breaking up text, not using a dash. tip 3 is about editing with a fresh eye, not changing the font).

She has a different strategy than one you might use, but it's not horribly wrong advice. She could stand to take her own advice and tighten, but her enthusiasm would be affected. She also seems to be more focused on social media than sales copy.

But again - keep it simple, break up text for readability, and make sure to edit with a fresh eye - all fantastic tips.

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Cam Connor

9 years ago

Originally Posted by angiecolee

Tip 1: keep it simple. Don't write long just because.

Tip 2: break up the text for readability. She uses a dash, which I disagree with, but the point stands.

Tip 3: refresh the view so you can look at it with a critical eye. Don't necessarily agree with the changing the font thing, but also a valid point.

So I'm not sure what's so blatantly wrong or bad about these. She's not quite so clear on the points she's made (example: tip 2 is really about breaking up text, not using a dash. tip 3 is about editing with a fresh eye, not changing the font).

She has a different strategy than one you might use, but it's not horribly wrong advice. She could stand to take her own advice and tighten, but her enthusiasm would be affected. She also seems to be more focused on social media than sales copy.

But again - keep it simple, break up text for readability, and make sure to edit with a fresh eye - all fantastic tips.

That's a nice spin on it. lol

Edit: Here're the ACTUAL tips, for anyone interested and too lazy to watch the video:

Tip #1: Keep your copy short and concise, because no one wants to read long copy. 'Nuff said.

Tip #2: Use dashes, because dashes magically boost your conversion rate significantly.

Tip #3: When you're rereading your copy, change the font and size... this is hands-down the best tip of the three, though also pretty much useless. If you come back to your copy after a day or two, I don't think you should have to "trick your brain" by changing the font, because it's already fresh.

Edit2: Don't worry Angie, there're still a ton of great female Copywriters out there, this one's just a bad apple. Personally I learned a lot from Maria Veloso, she's great.

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Tim R

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Cam Connor

That's a nice spin on it. lol

Edit: Here're the ACTUAL tips, for anyone interested and too lazy to watch the video:

Tip #1: Keep your copy short and concise, because no one wants to read long copy. 'Nuff said.

Tip #2: Use dashes, because dashes magically boost your conversion rate significantly.

Tip #3: When you're rereading your copy, change the font and size... this is hands-down the best tip of the three, though also pretty much useless. If you come back to your copy after a day or two, I don't think you should have to "trick your brain" by changing the font, because it's already fresh.

Edit2: Don't worry Angie, there're still a ton of great female Copywriters out there, this one's just a bad apple. Personally I learned a lot from Maria Veloso, she's great.

Did we just watch the same video? Like CN said, this is clearly about blog posts and content, not sales copy.

I got the same things from it as Angie said.

1. Keep your paragraphs short and to the point, don't ramble on.

2. Break up your text and make it easily readable.

3. Changing the font can help spot errors when editing.

Doesn't say short sales copy outperforms long sales copy.

Doesn't say dashes significantly increase conversion rates.

If you watch it objectively, the advice is decent but basic. Obviously intended for a certain audience and I'm sure it'll help many of those people improve their writing.

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Cam Connor

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Tim R

Did we just watch the same video? Like CN said, this is clearly about blog posts and content, not sales copy..

I agree, but I doubt most of the people watching it understand that. Look at the thumbnail:

Top 3 Copywriting Tips

And @ Nazi: What makes you think I use "Enjoy" in my Copy?

I'm sure many newbie Copywriters will interpret this to mean, "Short, concise Copy outperforms long copy because people have short attention spans"... which I believe is something she almost directly says, but I don't feel like watching the video again..

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Tim R

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Cam Connor

I agree, but I doubt most of the people watching it understand that. Look at the thumbnail:

Top 3 Copywriting Tips

And @ Nazi: What makes you think I use "Enjoy" in my Copy?

I'm sure many newbie Copywriters will interpret this to mean, "Short, concise Copy outperforms long copy because people have short attention spans"... which I believe is something she almost directly says, but I don't feel like watching the video again..

It's pretty clearly stated what this is about, and 'copy' is a pretty generic term that many people use for all kinds of writing.

You're putting words in her mouth to try and justify the particular point you've decided on.

If someone watches this and reads into it something that isn't there, and then assumes it to be gospel and fact, they were probably never going to succeed anyway.

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Cam Connor 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Tim R

It's pretty clearly stated what this is about, and 'copy' is a pretty generic term that many people use for all kinds of writing.

Copywriting is a broad term that also can encompass "all kinds of writing"... I assume that includes content writing? Correct?
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- Tim R 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Cam Connor
  
  Copywriting is a broad term that also can encompass "all kinds of writing"... I assume that includes content writing? Correct?
  
  *Sigh*
  
  Like I said, people often use the term to denote any kind of content online.
  
  The video clearly states it's for blog posts, not sales copy. The advice is not bad FOR HER INTENDED AUDIENCE.
  
  I'm done.
  
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  Cam Connor 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Tim R
  
  I'm done.
  
  Yes, I agree.
  
  Originally Posted by Cam Connor
  
  Copywriting is a broad term that also can encompass "all kinds of writing"... I assume that includes content writing? Correct?
  
  Originally Posted by Tim R
  
  Like I said, people often use the term to denote any kind of content online.
  
  So... the answer to my question above is a resounding yes?
  
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angiecolee

9 years ago

Meh. Sounds like we have different ideas about what constitutes bad/horrible advice. The seeds of copywriting 101 are there, she just didn't dig far enough.

And that right there's the rub. The main part of our job, aside from persuasion and stringing along a decent sentence or 500, is to be able to see through all the junk and the clutter and the screaming red font to get to the meat of the matter. That's why we do so much research. There's gold (buried) in them thar hills.

Not to say that any newb copywriter or marketer should be expected to dig for the nuggets in a self-professed expert's tutorials. But ya know - her advice is better than...

Make it red.

MAKE IT CAPS.

Put EVERYTHING above the fold.

Make sure there are blinking arrows above your BUY NOW button.

I don't like that headline and I'm your target audience.

Lots more stupid things have been said in this place than were said on that vid, in my opinion.

And I never assumed because you didn't like this chick that you were taking a dig at all female copywriters. I've got just as big an ego as a lot of the big boys in here LOL. My validation comes from my results, not my vag.

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 9 years ago

Once again we're talking about content-writing here. The clue is... she keeps saying "blog posts". But nonwithstanding that... the 3 tips are quite useful albeit not earth-shattering.

Here's a tip for you - never say "Enjoy" in your copy. It's hackneyed and cheesy.

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BudaBrit

9 years ago

Surely, rather than an exercise in "bad copy tips", this is a perfect example of how different audiences react differently to the same advice.

I couldn't watch it, sorry. I got as far as a few words into tip one before realizing it was "Content Writing 101", which has been done so many times by so many people and they still never tell you the most important thing about content!

But still, just by seeing how CC, Angie, CN, etc. all react, you can see that her words, however simple, have a completely different effect on different people.

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angiecolee

9 years ago

What exactly are you trying to achieve here, Cam?

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Cam Connor

9 years ago

Originally Posted by angiecolee

What exactly are you trying to achieve here, Cam?

Originally, I wasn't trying to achieve anything, I was just bored... In regards to Tim's post, I thought it'd be fun to start holding people responsible for the stupid things they say... and make them admit it more clearly. People on this forum are contradictory for no good reason, and this thread has proven that they're willing to go to great lengths to be so.

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Tim R

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Cam Connor

Originally, I wasn't trying to achieve anything, I was just bored... In regards to Tim's post, I thought it'd be fun to start holding people responsible for the stupid things they say... and make them admit it more clearly. People on this forum are contradictory for no good reason, and this thread has proven that they're willing to go to great lengths to be so.

Stop twisting what people say and misquoting them then.

Nowhere did I say that copywriting is the same as content writing. I said many people refer to copywriting as meaning any written content. If you think a lot of people online DON'T refer to written content as copy then you're seriously delusional.

Based on how you interpreted the video and the resulting posts, you have a major problem with objectively absorbing information without distorting it.

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Cam Connor

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Tim R

Nowhere did I say that copywriting is the same as content writing. I said many people refer to copywriting as meaning any written content. If you think a lot of people online DON'T refer to written content as copy then you're seriously delusional

OK, so you believe that many people INCORRECTLY refer to content writing as a type of Copywriting...or do you think it's correct to refer to content writing as a type of copywriting?

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MikeHumphreys

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Cam Connor

OK, so you believe that many people INCORRECTLY refer to content writing as a type of Copywriting...or do you think it's correct to refer to content writing as a type of copywriting?

At the end of the day, you need to decide if you'd rather be 100% right or be 100% happy. In my opinion, it's extremely rare that you get to be both of them with most things in life.

People have been mistakenly using the words "content" and "copy" for decades. They will continue to do so for probably decades into the future.

Arguing about it here isn't going to fix it.

What arguing will do is encourage every single person who reads your posts that you're not somebody they want to do business with.

If it's more important to you to be right, then keep arguing over minor stuff.

If it's more important to you to be happy -- as in getting more business than you can handle, JV offers, and more money flowing into your bank accounts -- then focus on far more important things than somebody else's blog post on 3 free tips.

Me? I'm 100% focused on growing my businesses and making my clients even more money in 2015. Because that's what is going to make me 100% happy.

My 3 cents,

Mike

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Cam Connor

9 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

At the end of the day, you need to decide if you'd rather be 100% right or be 100% happy. In my opinion, it's extremely rare that you get to be both of them with most things in life.

People have been mistakenly using the words "content" and "copy" for decades. They will continue to do so for probably decades into the future.

Arguing about it here isn't going to fix it.

What arguing will do is encourage every single person who reads your posts that you're not somebody they want to do business with.

If it's more important to you to be right, then keep arguing over minor stuff.

If it's more important to you to be happy -- as in getting more business than you can handle, JV offers, and more money flowing into your bank accounts -- then focus on far more important things than somebody else's blog post on 3 free tips.

Me? I'm 100% focused on growing my businesses and making my clients even more money in 2015. Because that's what is going to make me 100% happy.

My 3 cents,

Mike

I shouldn't have to argue, because the woman in the video clearly has no clue what she's talking about. Either she's newbie enough to mistake content writing for Copywriting and not know the difference... OR she offered Copywriting advice which was simply bad (this is the less likely scenario, as she mentioned blog posts).

But, in either case, my OP was correct, and I have people arguing against it with silly pointless arguments which quickly fall to the waste side once you take a moment to shine even a dim light of logic upon them. /checkmate

So in conclusion... Why settle for just one when you can be both RIGHT and HAPPY?

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JohnRussell 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Cam Connor

Why settle for just one when you can be both RIGHT and HAPPY?

You're not married, are you?
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angiecolee

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Cam Connor

Originally, I wasn't trying to achieve anything, I was just bored... In regards to Tim's post, I thought it'd be fun to start holding people responsible for the stupid things they say... and make them admit it more clearly. People on this forum are contradictory for no good reason, and this thread has proven that they're willing to go to great lengths to be so.

That avatar picture of mine up there? That's my super impressed face.

It's a forum, and some of you guys take it way too seriously.

When I dislike what's going on here, I get back to work. When interesting discussions are happening, I'm in.

I've got no time to be the ******* forum police. But more power to you if you decide you need to be.

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 9 years ago

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How To Offer Bad Copywriting Advice That Sounds Legit.

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