Please critque my video script and landing page copy

37 replies
Hey guys,

Just looking for some advice on my script of a new landing page video we are filming, as well as the landing copy itself.

*I've recently engaged two other copywriters which asked some great questions, so I'll post those below for those of you that want to learn more about my audience, objectives, program, etc to better assist me.

Here's a link to the script for the sales page video, we're replacing that horrid animated front page video.

^ That is designed to sell the system in a few minutes, so hoping someone can take a look over it and voice their opinions on how good a job it does at selling the system.

Here's a links to the sales page. If you'd like a premium account for the system, sign up for a free trial, shoot me a note and I'll upgrade you to premium.

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Description - The core service of Car33ring; is our 11 module system which holds the hand of the customer through the job search process. It's a step-by-step guide designed by a career coach to help you get a job much quicker.

Purpose - The purpose is to get the customer a job ideally. It differs from other products as it's a full system. It isn't just a resume advice program or tips for the interview; it's a full system taking you through every module. Also focuses on networking which people have a lot of difficulty with.

Features - 11 modules, over 100 pages of content, not sure what other facts to add? Something like the average time it takes a customer to get a job when using our system would be good but that's a hard stat to quantify. Any ideas?

Benefits - Does all of the above, designed to make getting a job easier and quicken the process, as well as save money otherwise spent on career coaching services (we also up sell this).

USP - Full comprehensive system, covering all aspects of the job search system <--- I understand this isn't powerful enough and perhaps it isn't the greatest feature in your observation? The key is that there are no gimmicks, it's an all you need to know system to get a job written by an accredited career coach - just need to know if this is a powerful enough statement.

Competition - Similar products include free career advice blogs, however, they aren't step-by-step systems which are expressed in detail. Additional to that, there's a number of similar systems, that either aren't well explained or don't go into the same detail.

Positioning - We're thinking about making the price $20/month as opposed to $75/6 months and adding a further value point of an extra modules to help once you're in the job (things like how to get a raise, how to fit in with the culture, and eventually how to move on covering all those questions people wonder about). Interested to hear your thoughts on this. We're also the only system I see really doing this in Australia - much smaller market than the US, bu maybe that'll work to our advantage?

Company - Core company is a recruitment agencies, have a team of 9 recruiters with 15+ years experience each. Program written by an executive coach and career strategist (not by an internet marketer with some interest in the industry that has rehashed the content). Owner has 20 years experience managing, hiring staff, vice president of the equal employment opportunity network, cert IV in business coaching, ICF accredited member.

Prospect - Another thing we need to iron out. Initially we've targeted people within the age group of 20 - 65 years old, however, I understand that is far too broad to communicate directly too. As an example, we set up an affiliate page for a partner with a mature aged audience (think 50+) - this has converted decently well. This is it. Now that focuses on the one age group and you can therefore communicate the same message effectively. Ideal target I believe is male or female, aged between 35 and 50, income level of $50k+, family situation looks most like either divorced with kids or still married with kids. Lifestyle and general description looks like they enjoy self development, learning and trust online systems - may be starting to struggle having been unemployed for a few months and are looking for a system to relieve some pressure and feel like they are actually making progress. Most likely targeting management type level; they tend to have the money to not worry about taking a free trial but rather skip directly to the premium system. Their biggest concern/fear is that they won't find employment soon, and that they are slowly falling behind on the payments they need to work to pay for. They are afraid that their competitors in the job market are being positioned better than them. Customer will take two approaches to using the product, they'll either select the module they currently need help with and work through it - or they'll work through it in a step-by step process - really depends where they're at. Obviously appeals to their emotional sense and sense of security; ideally will help them fell more secure and reignite their spark to keep trying to find that next job.

Additionally, prospect may be looking for a cheaper soloution to paying $250 an hour for a one on one car33ring coaching session.

Secondary Prospects - Something we've spoken about is two other markets we currently don't cater to. These include the graduate market and the international market (people coming from third world countries or those which have different customs/cultures to us). We'll look into developing that market when we succeed/fail with the current market. The bosses also want to sell this to companies that can't afford outplacement for employees they're laying off, I think that's far too much to focus on and rather keep it focused and targeted.

Objective - To sell the system! Potentially to up sell career coaching or resume correction/writing services we plan on offering.

Offer - Free trial currently available as a 7 day trial of the resume module. Thinking about changing this to a one day trial of the whole system. Currently premium system is available at $75 for 6 months, however, thinking about changing this to $20/month. Thoughts?

Taboos - Technically, we can't promise they'll get the job. We can assist them, but if they don't employ the techniques or are just a poor unskilled candidate in general, we can't guarantee they'll get a job.

*Apologies for the annoying '33s'; done for SEO purposes

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Looking forward to what people think and can recommend and apologies for the wall of text!

Cheers
#copy #critque #landing #page #script #video
  • Profile picture of the author secretcopyman
    Marketing-wise it isn't bad. It isn't great either.

    I think an open ended question as a headline isn't the best idea.

    Perhaps try something that confirms that THIS is the answer to their pain. People want to know that this page is a solution and not a place to vent about how "sick of wasting time" looking for a job.

    "Scroll down for more information" is not a good check mark.

    Don't put the price in right away. People are unemployed and they don't want to think about paying money so fast. They need to know that THIS is what they need, so for this, I would wait.

    For the "How it Works" part, summarize those 11 modules. I got bored reading the paragraphs. What exactly will I be learning here?

    The testimonials are okay, but need more emotion. More talk about "relief" and "fulfillment."

    My final thought is develop the core emotional complex your prospect has. What is it they fear most? What is really worrying them? Let's look deeper than paying bills. Think about the laid-off single dad in his 40's with a teenage daughter. What will she think of him if this continues? He doesn't want to let her down, and in the back of his mind he wants to show his ex-wife that he can make a comeback and she didn't bring him down. He wants to prove to the world he's still capable and worthy of being successful and praised for his good work. He wants more than just a job. He wants PURPOSE.

    There's a lot more... but those are the thoughts that jumped off of my head when I read this...
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    • Profile picture of the author danielgb123
      Originally Posted by secretcopyman View Post

      Marketing-wise it isn't bad. It isn't great either.

      I think an open ended question as a headline isn't the best idea.

      Perhaps try something that confirms that THIS is the answer to their pain. People want to know that this page is a solution and not a place to vent about how "sick of wasting time" looking for a job.

      "Scroll down for more information" is not a good check mark.

      Don't put the price in right away. People are unemployed and they don't want to think about paying money so fast. They need to know that THIS is what they need, so for this, I would wait.

      For the "How it Works" part, summarize those 11 modules. I got bored reading the paragraphs. What exactly will I be learning here?

      The testimonials are okay, but need more emotion. More talk about "relief" and "fulfillment."

      My final thought is develop the core emotional complex your prospect has. What is it they fear most? What is really worrying them? Let's look deeper than paying bills. Think about the laid-off single dad in his 40's with a teenage daughter. What will she think of him if this continues? He doesn't want to let her down, and in the back of his mind he wants to show his ex-wife that he can make a comeback and she didn't bring him down. He wants to prove to the world he's still capable and worthy of being successful and praised for his good work. He wants more than just a job. He wants PURPOSE.

      There's a lot more... but those are the thoughts that jumped off of my head when I read this...
      Firstly, I've fought the internal team to have that dot point removed (scroll down) and they're adamant that people need to be explicitly told to scroll down which I think is absurd but apparently the non-technically inclined don't know to scroll down lol.

      Any idea on what a better headline would be? I'm really struggling with it!

      Good point on the price sensitivity, I'll employ that.

      Great point again, and awesome post - thanks buddy! Got to think about a way to make it more personal and have an intriguing story that resonates perhaps.
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  • Profile picture of the author TjarkHartmann
    Right when I looked at your page I had to double take the headline because "Sick of Wasting" "Time Job Hunting?"... made me wonder what the hell Time Job Hunting is. Might be a good idea to put "Sick of Wasting Time" and then "Job Hunting?"

    Also, the text is out of whack on my computer screen. 3rd and 4th bullet go into the white area where it's impossible to read.
    Signature

    Tjark: Pronounced like "Jacques" in Jacques Cousteau.

    www.TjarkHartmann.com

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    • Profile picture of the author danielgb123
      Originally Posted by TjarkHartmann View Post

      Right when I looked at your page I had to double take the headline because "Sick of Wasting" "Time Job Hunting?"... made me wonder what the hell Time Job Hunting is. Might be a good idea to put "Sick of Wasting Time" and then "Job Hunting?"

      Also, the text is out of whack on my computer screen. 3rd and 4th bullet go into the white area where it's impossible to read.
      Yeah, you definitely have a point there that I hadn't otherwise picked up. I like posting threads like this as they provide an insight into something I've spent months staring at. I initially had the main headline as something similar to 'invest in your career' but realised that wasn't the correct headline as someone else in this thread mentioned.

      Interesting on the second point - what operating system and browser are you using?
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  • Profile picture of the author danny2
    Not sure about the "buy now $75 or free trial" button. Why would I buy now when I can get a free trial. Would it make sense to only offer a $5 trip wire for 7 days?

    Thank you for sharing.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      There's no connection to the prospects pain points,
      why they haven't found the answer and
      what the hidden cause of their problem.

      That's of more interest to the job seeker than
      more training.

      Best,
      Doctor E. Vile
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    • Profile picture of the author danielgb123
      Originally Posted by danny2 View Post

      Not sure about the "buy now $75 or free trial" button. Why would I buy now when I can get a free trial. Would it make sense to only offer a $5 trip wire for 7 days?

      Thank you for sharing.
      This is true, and another good point on the price.

      I'm thinking about changing the price to $20/month.
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        "Motivation is the most influential aspect of conversion. The more intensely connected a PPC ad is to the true motivation of the searcher, the more intense the response will be."

        Marketing Experiments

        End///

        You are continuing to ignore this, which was the point
        of my last post.

        Best,
        Doctor E. Vile
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Listen to these guys. They're on the money.

    You REALLY need to hire a copywriter that knows WTF they're doing. Those other copywriters are doing you no favors.

    They don't understand the market. Someone who buys a system like this is not at the beginning of their search.

    They're in the middle or at the end. AND THEY'RE GETTING DESPERATE.

    They're willing to try/do anything. Because what they're doing isn't working.

    - Rick Duris
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  • Profile picture of the author danielgb123
    It's interesting how there's typically two types of copywriters on a forum:
    1) The guy that lends a helping hand; posts some actual tips and may receive some work
    2) The guy that is blatantly rude and completely nullifies the effort you've put in (hint: not constructive criticism).
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    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
      Originally Posted by danielgb123 View Post

      It's interesting how there's typically two types of copywriters on a forum:
      1) The guy that lends a helping hand; posts some actual tips and may receive some work
      2) The guy that is blatantly rude and completely nullifies the effort you've put in (hint: not constructive criticism).
      Wow.

      Ok. How's this for nullifying:

      There are marketers who need to be BITCH SLAPPED upside the head until they come to their money-making senses.

      You're one of them.

      You "think" you understand your market and what they want. You don't. It's blatantly obvious.

      Stop bullshitting us.

      I *was* trying to course correct you, best I can, firmly and professionally and to the point, but you're either blind or bullheaded. Or maybe just stuck on stupid.

      (As you can see, I've abandoned being firm and professional and to the point. )

      You have the entire Internet at your disposal, and YOU RESORT TO GUESSING who your market is.

      Good luck with that.

      What you fail to see, because your ego is so frickn' bloated, is that I WAS CONSTRUCTIVE.

      Now you may say my ego's bloated as well. So be it. I won't argue with that. But I'm not the one coming here hat in hand, asking for help. I'm not the one who's hired not one, but two copywriters, and still can't make it work.

      So go ahead, hit me with your best shot, buddy. Tell me about all the money I could be making sucking up to potential Clients like you.

      Right now, you've become object lesson for every other marketer and copywriter out there. And I want the world to see you for what you are.

      Clueless.

      Here's the lesson: When you don't know who you market is, precisely...

      Everything, and I mean E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G., is just one big circle jerk.

      You're playing whack the pinata... Pin the Tail on the Donkey... you're playing Battleship...

      You're guessing. There's no need.

      Stop scewing around Daniel, and DO THE WORK.

      Here the problem: You and your posse of copywriters don't know how to recon a market.

      And that is why you'll continue to spin your wheels, waste your time, and blow your bank account.

      Good luck.

      - Rick Duris

      PS: Look at my thanks count, buddy. When it comes to nullifying, it kinda tells the story. People like it when I tell it like it is.

      Maybe you don't.

      Maybe you think I'm gonna kiss up to you. Flatter you. Give you "actual tips".

      Maybe you expect me to show you how much knowledge I possess and how I can help you. And then I let you suck me dry publicly and everyone gets to watch and learn.

      No. I'm gonna show you where the flaws in your thinking are and then I'm gonna rub your nose in them so you'll never forget.

      And then a few months from now, when you're finally making money, you'll pm me saying thanks for setting you straight early on.

      PPS: All I can say is the next time you think about backhanding someone? You better think twice before hitting that send key.
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  • Profile picture of the author danielgb123
    You were at no point firm and professional.

    Firstly, I haven't hired two copywriters, I've engaged two, for the same purpose as what this thread was intended to be, to offer help and professionally angled criticism.

    Oh and just to correct your statement, I'm not a "potential client" of yours, nor will I ever be.

    I very much appreciate the personal attack, as you are entirely aware of the work I've put into this. Your post is a wall of contradiction and hypocrisy, "You better think twice before hitting that send key." - or what? Is this play school? Are you going to sit me down and tell me how it is again? You've no idea what I have achieved and failed at, and vice versa.

    Rather than further engaging you in an internet fight I frankly cannot be bothered attending too, I'll illustrate that I DO indeed have an understanding of my market. Please keep in mind to this point, the post I linked to in the OP is quite broad, I've refined over time but it is in no way a reflection of the other landing pages I've built which are far more effective and targeted.

    So here's what I do know:
    - "Someone who buys a system like this is not at the beginning of their search." - you wrote this earlier on, and as surprising as this is to you, I am well aware.

    - I know I need to hit emotional points, I need to hit financial points, these people are hurting, there's no way out, they need employment because their bank account is starting to run low, they can't afford their kids new expensive school, their mortgage is becoming incredibly demanding. These people send resume after resume and have no success, they attend interviews and always come off second best. They need that one system that will see them through the individual aspect of the job search which they are struggling with (and yes, that's one of the many mistakes I initially made in making this an entire system as opposed to focusing on just one module - because it's far too broad and hard to target).

    - These people don't want to invest in their careers, they don't want to learn how to be the very best in the job search, they just want to get the process over with and secure their next job. I realised that the $75/6 months price point wasn't right at this stage. Not because it was too much money, but because a 6 month subscription creates a mental illusion that it WILL take them 6 months to find their job. A $20/month subscription, whilst it may not be as financially rewarding (potentially); gives them hope that they will find the job much quicker. And I also have ideas for how I can prolong their membership beyond actually finding a job (think once in the actual job).

    - I know I need to hit so many points, and as you've quite negatively highlighted I am failing. This isn't just a half-hearted bullshit attempt, I wake up with ideas, I go to sleep thinking about this project. It's become a big part of my life, it has to be, it has to be a success. It doesn't help that I've had to battle with my own thoughts towards this product, I didn't think it would actually sell - part of me still doesn't think it will do well even after a trickle of sales. I manage this product, it wasn't my core idea, and if it was a personal project I would have dropped it because it's not an industry I am particularly enjoying. It is however a challenge, which I am taking up and giving my best shot.

    - I know people want resume writing services. They want interview tips, but ultimately they want a job. That's what everything I market needs to result in within the consumers mind. This is their ticket, through all the struggle, to finally raising their head above water and landing a job. I'm lost, you're right. I have hundreds of ideas, I want to do a graduate section, a mature aged section, target specific industries, I want to be the go-to information source for people looking for that missing piece to the puzzle.

    I hope that relieves me from some of the onslaught you threw my way in order to discredit me and publically embarrass me. There is definitely a difference between being constructive and downright vulgar, arrogant disrespectful; and I have no interest as I mentioned above in provoking or fighting with you; nor do I see it being beneficial to either of us. Perhaps I instigated it with an option that was voiced from frustration, quite dissimilar to yours which was a blatant vicious attack. I expect you to carry yourself in a professional manner and look beyond the childish debate of this argument, and get on with things. This forum is designed as a learning resource, not a personal attack gathering - my apologies as I have evidently offended you.

    I probably haven't transferred anywhere near as much information from my mind which is constantly ticking over with new ideas and refinements within this post to prove to you I at least have some idea of what I am doing; but I hope you can see my side now and return the favour in offering respect in your follow up post.
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  • Profile picture of the author HamishW
    I like your spiel Rick, read it from top to bottom!

    Daniel hate to tell you this, but I didn't read all yours. I was bored... example: you say "Perhaps you might be feeling this way?" I think (I'm not a copywriter) if you said "I know you are feeling frustrated and tired of all the crap that is out there."
    Take it from your own perspective; would you buy from someone who:
    Didn't know what problem was, but thought perhaps they could sell you a solution?
    or would you buy from someone who knew exactly what your problem was and wanted just a few bucks for the solution?

    I would start small on price and then over deliver on value to build trust. Then up-sell later.
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    • Profile picture of the author danielgb123
      Originally Posted by HamishW View Post

      I like your spiel Rick, read it from top to bottom!

      Daniel hate to tell you this, but I didn't read all yours. I was bored... example: you say "Perhaps you might be feeling this way?" I think (I'm not a copywriter) if you said "I know you are feeling frustrated and tired of all the crap that is out there."
      Take it from your own perspective; would you buy from someone who:
      Didn't know what problem was, but thought perhaps they could sell you a solution?
      or would you buy from someone who knew exactly what your problem was and wanted just a few bucks for the solution?

      I would start small on price and then over deliver on value to build trust. Then up-sell later.
      Read my post, Hamish.

      I'm not writing copy, I'm writing a forum post. I'm not trying to sell the person on the other end, I'm not trying to offend or discredit them. You quoted "Perhaps you might be feeling this way?"; and I at no point said this?

      Moreover from the point, I'm not interested in continuing or provoking a barrage of attacks, I'm looking for advice, I'm looking for positivity.
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Daniel, you seek some positivity,
        here's some...

        Connect to the prospects pain points,
        why they haven't found the answer and
        what the hidden cause of their problem.

        Best,
        Doctor E. Vile
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        • Profile picture of the author danielgb123
          Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

          Daniel, you seek some positivity,
          here's some...

          Connect to the prospects pain points,
          why they haven't found the answer and
          what the hidden cause of their problem.

          Best,
          Doctor E. Vile
          I understand I need to do this, i know what their pain points are, I have the answer, I just need to convey that effectively.
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            Originally Posted by danielgb123 View Post

            I understand I need to do this, i know what their pain points are, I have the answer, I just need to convey that effectively.
            Daniel, can you point me to the part which talks about why they haven't found the answer
            and what the hidden cause of them not getting the results they want, despite what they tried?

            Best,
            Doctor E. Vile
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            • Profile picture of the author danielgb123
              Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

              Daniel, can you point me to the part which talks about why they haven't found the answer
              and what the hidden cause of them not getting the results they want, despite what they tried?

              Best,
              Doctor E. Vile
              I've tried to best address that in my points highlighting what they need to experience success (better resume, learn how to interview); but maybe I haven't been personalable enough and identified the issues that they're struggling with?

              Here's another attempt I made:
              Resumes that don't work

              It's for an Adwords campaign I'm running at the moment.
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              • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                Originally Posted by danielgb123 View Post

                I've tried to best address that in my points highlighting what they need to experience success (better resume, learn how to interview); but maybe I haven't been personalable enough and identified the issues that they're struggling with?

                Here's another attempt I made:
                Resumes that don't work

                It's for an Adwords campaign I'm running at the moment.
                Daniel, if you could describe yourself as analytical or creative,
                which would it be?

                A coffee roaster client in Belgium who brought me on for his company branding
                had a hard time coming up with the right message because he was analytical
                biased.

                It's not a right or wrong thing, it's just some people are very biased in one way.

                Hence there can be break down in communications between the creatives and the analytical.

                It was a breakthrough moment for my client as why he could not come up with the right message he so desperatly wanted.

                This is about self discovery first before mastering your message.

                Best,
                Doctor E. Vile
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                • Profile picture of the author danielgb123
                  Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

                  Daniel, if you could describe yourself as analytical or creative,
                  which would it be?

                  A coffee roster client in Belgium who brought me on for his company branding
                  had a hard time coming up with the right message because he was analytical
                  biased.

                  It's not a right or wrong thing, it's just some people are very biased in one way.

                  Hence there can be break down in communications between the creatives and the analytical.

                  It was a breakthrough moment for my client as why he could not come up with the right message he so desperatly wanted.

                  This is about self discovery first before mastering your message.

                  Best,
                  Doctor E. Vile
                  I'd describe myself as more creative than analytical.
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              • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
                Originally Posted by danielgb123 View Post

                I've tried to best address that in my points highlighting what they need to experience success (better resume, learn how to interview); but maybe I haven't been personalable enough and identified the issues that they're struggling with?

                Here's another attempt I made:
                Resumes that don't work

                It's for an Adwords campaign I'm running at the moment.
                The pain and levels of intensity as directed by what others have been through
                can be worked on.

                What's missing altogether is the ONE thing that's causing it and the ONE thing that has been missing
                to fix the problem.

                Your ONE thing is the secret that only you have and is their salvation.

                It's the ONE thing that all successful career pros have and up until now,
                nobody has been telling.

                Getting as close as you can to that little formula
                is what will fire up your sales.

                If you can't come up with it yourself, then you need the right person to draw it out of your knowedge base.

                Best,
                Doctor E. Vile
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                • Profile picture of the author danielgb123
                  Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

                  The pain and levels of intensity as directed by what others have been through
                  can be worked on.

                  What's missing altogether is the ONE thing that's causing it and the ONE thing that has been missing.

                  Your ONE thing is the secret that only you have and is their salvation.

                  It's the ONE thing that all successful career pros have and up until now,
                  nobody has been telling.

                  Getting as close as you can to that little formula
                  is what will fire up your sales.

                  If you can't come up with it yourself, then you need the right person to draw it out of your knowedge base.

                  Best,
                  Doctor E. Vile
                  "If you can't come up with it yourself, then you need the right person to draw it out of your knowedge base."

                  I think you've hit the nail on the head, thank-you.
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    Look, I've coached people through hundreds of resumes and cover letters.

    I've helped people get jobs in myriad fields, and I've leveraged a layoff and homelessness into a pretty cushy job in the most expensive metro area in the United States.

    You want some advice? Swallow your ego. Ewen and Rick have it right. You don't know what you think you know.

    You're only scratching the surface. You're not touching their pain at all. They're out there looking for a way to stop a freight train (long-term unemployment that has a massive avalanche of other consequences and/or being miserable in a dead end job and more than ready to move on), and you're giving them a chock block.

    The train will run that over and smash it to bits, not even slowing for a millisecond.

    These people are panicking. I know, I've been there.

    And what am I thinking when I see your page?

    So what.

    I've been through every LinkedIn article for how to write a better resume. I've been through all the Yahoo articles, the HuffPo articles. I've put in the objective and taken it out. I've put in that time I worked at McDonald's and taken it out. I've put in that Dean's list honor I got at college and taken college out completely.

    WHY WON'T THEY GIVE ME A ******* CHANCE?!

    [^ that right there? That was the meltdown. They're beyond rational at this point. Don't let them get there. You have the solution]

    I, as someone who desperately needs a job, don't want to hear what you're going to train me to do. I want to know why what I'm doing isn't working. I just want my freaking foot in the door, man. I just want someone to know that I can do this job and knock it out of the park. My kids are hungry. I'm going to lose my apartment. I'm running out of unemployment and my family can't help me.

    Or I'm slowly suffocating in a dead-end job and if that MORON from accounting asks me that question ONE MORE TIME...

    Can you see where I'm going with this?

    They are in PANIC MODE.

    Your language is in "someday in the future" mode.

    They don't have the luxury.

    What are you going to do about it?

    _________

    Other thoughts - are you targeting people who are idly trying to switch jobs?

    Because if you are, what are you selling that the aforementioned LinkedIn/Yahoo/HuffPo/et al can't provide for free? I can understand that the job market in Australia may be different than the US. But they have the internet at their fingertips. Why do they need to pay you?

    This is not an insult or a stab at your hard work. You literally need to be able to explain why they should pay you, what you offer that others don't.

    And you better make it tasty. You're not saying anything that hasn't been said before.
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  • Profile picture of the author danielgb123
    Thank-you, Angie - I definitely get the picture - I know what my next move is here.

    On another note, I don't understand all the comments about swallowing my ego. I am happy to change ANYTHING, I by no means think what I've done is 100%. I wouldn't be here wondering what I can do to better my conversion rate if I thought it was spot on. I'm open to all advice, and will begin making amendments now.

    Thanks for all the help, everyone!
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    • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
      Originally Posted by danielgb123 View Post

      Thank-you, Angie - I definitely get the picture - I know what my next move is here.

      On another note, I don't understand all the comments about swallowing my ego. I am happy to change ANYTHING, I by no means think what I've done is 100%. I wouldn't be here wondering what I can do to better my conversion rate if I thought it was spot on. I'm open to all advice, and will begin making amendments now.

      Thanks for all the help, everyone!
      It comes from your initial post essentially flat out saying you're not quite sure who your market is.

      That is a good admission, as it means we can help you.

      You later went on to state you know who they are and how they're suffering and how you can fix this.

      I understand that this is a passion and you've probably spent every waking moment and countless sleepless nights on it. But if you are missing an element, you may not have the experience to know what you're missing.

      That's what these guys are trying to provide. It may be blunt, but it's good advice.

      You don't have to like it. But practically speaking? You have to make a decision one way or another - keep noodling this to death and asking for critiques from every Tom, Dick, and Angie on a forum...

      ...or hire someone that knows what they're doing.

      It's kinda the same thing you're selling your customers.

      I can train you how to do this, and YOU have to put in ALL the hard work.

      Or I can do it for you, probably with even better results than you imagined.
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

    These people are panicking. I know, I've been there.
    Angie, let me ask you:

    1. Would you have bought and consumed an 11-module system to get a job?

    2. Would you have bought a "system" at all to get a job?

    3. Would you have bought a 1-module system to get a job?

    Can't you just imagine the panic attacks the person is having as they're going through the system?

    Oh my gosh. Makes me want to reach for a Xanax.

    This is just one of the reasons I say Daniel doesn't know his market.

    - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author danielgb123
      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      Angie, let me ask you:

      1. Would you have bought and consumed an 11-module system to get a job?

      2. Would you have bought a "system" at all to get a job?

      3. Would you have bought a 1-module system to get a job?

      Can't you just imagine the panic attacks the person is having as they're going through the system?

      Oh my gosh. Makes want to reach for a Xanax.

      This is just one of the reasons I say Daniel doesn't know his market.

      - Rick Duris
      Dude, seriously just drop it.

      Just let it go. The thing that bothers me even more is that people seem to support how rude you are - as if this sort of thing will land you customers.

      Maybe we have the model wrong, maybe that needs to be revisited. The copy is wrong, I'm making changes to that - what are you getting out of trying to drive me into the ground?

      You're not only degrading my copy now, but the entire system of which you have no idea what depth we go into. Sure you can send 100 resumes a day with resume submission systems, but what's the point if your resume is the actual issue?

      Oh, and you very well knew what I meant in regards to "1 module system". Perhaps it should have been more focused specifically on getting a resume 100% right to land an interview, as opposed to a non-specific system which offers an all-around job search guide. 11 modules might be too much to go through, it might not be enough. I have so many ideas, and conveying them effectively in one product is hard. There's lot of angles this can be pushed, I'm trying to find the best one.
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      • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
        Originally Posted by danielgb123 View Post

        Dude, seriously just drop it.

        Just let it go. The thing that bothers me even more is that people seem to support how rude you are - as if this sort of thing will land you customers.

        Maybe we have the model wrong, maybe that needs to be revisited. The copy is wrong, I'm making changes to that - what are you getting out of trying to drive me into the ground?
        You're not getting it.

        This is not being rude, Daniel. Stop taking what I say as a personal attack.

        Look at it what I just said from a prospect's perspective.

        What mindset are they in when they're supposedly in a buying mode? Do you really think they're up for a 11-module course on how to get a job from someone they don't even know?

        No.

        That said, THERE IS A WAY to sell this. I've done it. Others have too.

        But given your continued contempt for my posts, I'm out. Good luck and G'day.

        - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      Angie, let me ask you:

      1. Would you have bought and consumed an 11-module system to get a job?
      Nope. I was broke as ****.


      2. Would you have bought a "system" at all to get a job?
      Maybe a resume writing service, but not a system. What is the system going to do that BrassRing or JobVite can't? At least they make submitting my resume pretty simple - I can crank out 50+ applications in a day and possibly even spare the time to make sure I'm writing the right cover letter for the right job.

      3. Would you have bought a 1-module system to get a job?
      Only if there was some sort of money-back guarantee and they were recommended by someone I know and they talked about things that matter to ME.


      Can't you just imagine the panic attacks the person is having as they're going through the system?

      Oh my gosh. Makes want to reach for a Xanax.

      This is just one of the reasons I say Daniel doesn't know his market.

      - Rick Duris
      Oh I can imagine it. Just talking about it makes my chest constrict. I remember what it felt like, down to the shoulders being permanently attached to my earlobes and the constant migraines.

      I remember scouting out places to park my car, hoping to find somewhere relatively safe from danger and prying eyes.

      I remember nursing a hot tea at Starbucks while I mooched off free wifi for hours, trying to avoid the glare of angry baristas and people who wanted to plug in their laptops at my table.

      I remember having a job and being miserable. Budget doesn't leave any room for promotion. You're not getting any help soon. Sorry, you're just going to have to do more work or find a new job.

      It hurts. It hurts so much that I just want someone to take that burden off my shoulders.
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Folks,

    Daniel has privately reached out to me. He was nothing less than a gentleman. He has an true appreciation for what I was trying to accomplish.

    Everything's all good. And I truly wish him well in his endeavor. I'm sure he'll crack the code.

    - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author danielgb123
      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      Folks,

      Daniel has privately reached out to me. He was nothing less than a gentleman. He has an true appreciation for what I was trying to accomplish.

      Everything's all good. And I truly wish him well in his endeavor. I'm sure he'll crack the code.

      - Rick Duris
      No hard feelings on my end, Rick.

      I came into this thread with a little too much pride, belief and stress under my belt. You guys all provided a valuable insight into something I believe in, work for and am hoping to achieve, and I thank everyone that has contributed to this thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author splitTest
    All told, the copy is just a little tepid, imho.

    "Secure your next job role
    With our self-directed learning system"

    "Job role"? Is that a keyword you're going for in SEO? I ask because it appears a lot in the copy, though it's a pretty awkward phrase. Gotta write more like you talk. Who talks about "securing your next job role"?

    "Self-directed learning system"? Okay, sometimes you want to tech stuff up... But you can phrase this in a way that makes the benefits more clear and enticing...

    "What we have to offer"? It's not about you... It's about them. You're wasting words with stuff like "what we have to offer"...

    "Build a winning job search arsenal"? Pure "ad-speak"... No one wants an arsenal. They want a job (and fast) and they want tools that will help them find jobs fast in the future.

    There's no urgency to that kinda language & it sounds like corporate-speak & ad speak. That copy is like "thin soup". Gotta enrich it with more specific benefits and speak to the hopes & dreams and pains of your target market...

    I'm not a bandwagon sort of fellow, but the group here is on the money about pain points, fears and such. The old ways of looking for work are dead, and a lot of people have been left in a lurch by the new ways... Maybe there's an angle in it there.

    And why hasn't the word "secrets" come up once in your copy? Like mack said -- What's so special about YOUR product? Why you? What will buyers get that's exclusive to your system? "Secrets" can be powerful when used right in copy. You have an opportunity to use it here...

    For this kinda product, you can also reward readers for taking in your pitch, with some genuinely valuable knowledge... A lil taste of what they're getting... You might also want to tempt them with some "blind" bullet points that contradict their current ways of thinking...

    In other words, there's a whoole lot a decent copywriter could do to add some muscle to your pitch. A beginner might think it's good -- because it's not as flat-out terrible as your average pedestrian might write -- but more experienced copywriters see there's a lot more you can do with a pitch for a product like that.

    If you wrote that yourself, study up & you'll get it... Anyway, good luck!
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    • Profile picture of the author danielgb123
      Originally Posted by splitTest View Post

      All told, the copy is just a little tepid, imho.

      "Secure your next job role
      With our self-directed learning system"

      "Job role"? Is that a keyword you're going for in SEO? I ask because it appears a lot in the copy, though it's a pretty awkward phrase. Gotta write more like you talk. Who talks about "securing your next job role"?

      "Self-directed learning system"? Okay, sometimes you want to tech stuff up... But you can phrase this in a way that makes the benefits more clear and enticing...

      "What we have to offer"? It's not about you... It's about them. You're wasting words with stuff like "what we have to offer"...

      "Build a winning job search arsenal"? Pure "ad-speak"... No one wants an arsenal. They want a job (and fast) and they want tools that will help them find jobs fast in the future.

      There's no urgency to that kinda language & it sounds like corporate-speak & ad speak. That copy is like "thin soup". Gotta enrich it with more specific benefits and speak to the hopes & dreams and pains of your target market...

      I'm not a bandwagon sort of fellow, but the group here is on the money about pain points, fears and such. The old ways of looking for work are dead, and a lot of people have been left in a lurch by the new ways... Maybe there's an angle in it there.

      And why hasn't the word "secrets" come up once in your copy? Like mack said -- What's so special about YOUR product? Why you? What will buyers get that's exclusive to your system? "Secrets" can be powerful when used right in copy. You have an opportunity to use it here...

      For this kinda product, you can also reward readers for taking in your pitch, with some genuinely valuable knowledge... A lil taste of what they're getting... You might also want to tempt them with some "blind" bullet points that contradict their current ways of thinking...

      In other words, there's a whoole lot a decent copywriter could do to add some muscle to your pitch. A beginner might think it's good -- because it's not as flat-out terrible as your average pedestrian might write -- but more experienced copywriters see there's a lot more you can do with a pitch for a product like that.

      If you wrote that yourself, study up & you'll get it... Anyway, good luck!
      Haha, no it's not a SEO term; but you're right it is corporate speak, not personal. One of the reasons this has come about is because we're trying to target both people looking for jobs, and companies going through outplacement (and this will act as a cheap guide to help employees they're laying off to get a job). I don't think that's the right angle, I think we should have just one target market, but other people involved think we can make a killing selling to corporates too... hmm.

      If you've got a chance - check this out. It's my most recent landing page, I wrote it before all of this advice, but it's a little less tepid in my opinion and tries to hit some of those emotional points.

      You definitely have a point with the headlines, it's one of my shortfalls and one I've always had a hard time with. I struggle with Ad headlines, I struggle with email headlines - just something I find tough. Thanks for the help!

      I also think that last paragraph you touched on is another reason for why I've been quite defensive in this thread. I started out in IM many years ago as an article writer, obviously quite different to a copywriter but I've never seen myself as a poor writer. Being a poor copywriter doesn't mean you're a poor writer, in fact, you may be too formal a writer which means you aren't connecting with your audience. Being a good copywriter means that whilst others can see my copy is good or decent, you guys can point out it has it's flaws and can drastically be improved. I really value that advice and apologies if I shot anyone done - I'm sure you can understand the defensive position I was coming from with my own product. I don't think my copy is shit, but I also can understand it can be greatly improved (and I am gradually learning how).
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      • Profile picture of the author splitTest
        Originally Posted by danielgb123 View Post

        If you've got a chance - check this out. It's my most recent landing page, I wrote it before all of this advice, but it's a little less tepid in my opinion and tries to hit some of those emotional points.

        You definitely have a point with the headlines, it's one of my shortfalls and one I've always had a hard time with. I struggle with Ad headlines, I struggle with email headlines - just something I find tough. Thanks for the help!.
        Yeah, I notice a pattern re: your headlines. Your heads will be kinda nondescrip, then the paragraph after will contain some nugget of a benefit that would probably make a better headline than what you have...

        Anyway, don't waste the power of your headlines! You might want to keep the acronym "ABCs" in mind for elements you can work into them.

        Automation -- Promise that the benefits can be achieved without a whole lot of effort
        Benefit -- Include a benefit
        Curiosity -- Appeal to curiosity
        Specificity -- Make specific claims (which enhance credibility)

        Got that from the article here: How To Write High-Converting Headlines...

        ... & it rings true. Of course, there are many ways to write compelling headlines, but as you review yours, remember your ABCs...
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Your words ring true, Daniel. Thank you.

    Now let me give you a little "positivity," a little motivation and a little inspiration. Then I'll give you an idea.

    ---

    First, you really do have a tiger by the tail.

    At least in the US, probably AU too, there's a world of hurt coming. You figure this thing out?

    You're gonna be in the catbird's seat. Heck, you already are.

    No doubt about it.

    There's a big recession coming. And it's gonna be wicked. Bigger than 2008. And it's going to send a lot of people scrambling.

    And you're gonna be there to catch them. And help them land on their feet and get a job.

    So keep going, you WILL figure this out.

    ---

    Now the idea.

    In a word, besides knowing and communicating to your market better, what you want to build is a multi-step "a sales funnel."

    You want to strategically take a person from a cold lead, to a prospect, to a qualified prospect, to a first time customer, to a repeat customer. (Those aren't exact steps in your case, there could be more steps involved.)

    But do the research on building "sales funnels."

    The WSO forum is filled with all sorts of affordable how-to info on them. Ryan Diess has a program. Nitro Marketing has one. Ben Adkins has a very affordable one. I can vouch for these.

    But there are many more.

    My friend, Brian Johnson just wrote a book you may find useful. It's called The Trust Funnel. Look it up.

    The "trick", when it comes to Adwords traffic, is to make your page look like a information-packed how-to article/page. Ultra-informative/useful. And oh yeah, there happens to also be an optin for a little, non-threatening clickbaity thing they can get, when they cough up their email.

    It's hard get a decent ROI on Adwords, but there are all sorts of ways to do this. The first one I would definitely test, is offering people a list of TOOLS (not tips) to aid them in their job search when they optin.

    Simple to produce, yet perceptually there's enormous value.

    Now you're building a list of prospects which you can build a relationship with over time. Now you're on your way.

    This gives you the opportunity to build authority, credibility, trust, bond, yada, yada, yada, and yeah, you can make them offer to BUY SOMETHING inexpensive and non-threatening but valuable. And this is important: It has to be immediately useful in their job search.

    Whatever you do, in the beginning, stay away from calling what you've got a system or modules. You're scaring the crap out of people. It sounds too intimidating.

    Initially, put something simple in their hands they can say in the back of their mind "Wow, this is what I need. I'm gonna use this. I like this guy."

    ----

    Now, I'm going to give you one other idea. And you're not gonna like me (again.)

    But I believe you would do better if you focused on a specific profession. For instance, finding corporate IT jobs. Or accounting jobs. Or whatever.

    Again, this comes down to understanding your market. Right now, your market is very broad.

    And as you can appreciate, getting a customer service job for instance, is way different than getting a account manager job someplace.

    You'd have to tailor the product, but your chances of really connecting with your prospect and building value go up, the more you focus.

    Think about this:

    Let's say I was looking for a management position in Queensland. Versus anything else.

    Wouldn't I consider your training more valuable, if it was more targeted to my exact needs?

    You bet.

    Now you can stay broad, but consider the idea. I think there's something there. I've seen info-marketers help get people IT jobs. The training is very well received.

    But no doubt, you can also go broad.

    A person who has mastered this is Ramit Sethi. Look him up. All I'll tell you is the man knows his market like the back of his hand.

    ----

    Good luck. Hopefully, I've been helpful.

    - Rick Duris
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    • Profile picture of the author danielgb123
      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      Now the idea.

      In a word, besides knowing and communicating to your market better, what you want to build is a multi-step "a sales funnel."

      You want to strategically take a person from a cold lead, to a prospect, to a qualified prospect, to a first time customer, to a repeat customer. (Those aren't exact steps in your case, there could be more steps involved.)

      But do the research on building "sales funnels."

      The WSO forum is filled with all sorts of affordable how-to info on them. Ryan Diess has a program. Nitro Marketing has one. Ben Adkins has a very affordable one. I can vouch for these.

      But there are many more.

      My friend, Brian Johnson just wrote a book you may find useful. It's called The Trust Funnel. Look it up.

      The "trick", when it comes to Adwords traffic, is to make your page look like a information-packed how-to article/page. Ultra-informative/useful. And oh yeah, there happens to also be an optin for a little, non-threatening clickbaity thing they can get, when they cough up their email.

      It's hard get a decent ROI on Adwords, but there are all sorts of ways to do this. The first one I would definitely test, is offering people a list of TOOLS (not tips) to aid them in their job search when they optin.

      Simple to produce, yet perceptually there's enormous value.

      Now you're building a list of prospects which you can build a relationship with over time. Now you're on your way.

      This gives you the opportunity to build authority, credibility, trust, bond, yada, yada, yada, and yeah, you can make them offer to BUY SOMETHING inexpensive and non-threatening but valuable. And this is important: It has to be immediately useful in their job search.

      Whatever you do, in the beginning, stay away from calling what you've got a system or modules. You're scaring the crap out of people. It sounds too intimidating.

      Initially, put something simple in their hands they can say in the back of their mind "Wow, this is what I need. I'm gonna use this. I like this guy."
      It's a like to take on, and frankly what you're describing is the right way to do things. I'm looking for the quick sale as opposed to the long term, build a list of adoring customers that will hang on your every word strategy.

      You're very right, and I'll definitely check out the people you've made mention of above. to better understand how to build an effective funnel.

      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      Now, I'm going to give you one other idea. And you're not gonna like me (again.)

      But I believe you would do better if you focused on a specific profession. For instance, finding corporate IT jobs. Or accounting jobs. Or whatever.

      Again, this comes down to understanding your market. Right now, your market is very broad.

      And as you can appreciate, getting a customer service job for instance, is way different than getting a account manager job someplace.

      You'd have to tailor the product, but your chances of really connecting with your prospect and building value go up, the more you focus.

      Think about this:

      Let's say I was looking for a management position in Queensland. Versus anything else.

      Wouldn't I consider your training more valuable, if it was more targeted to my exact needs?

      You bet.

      Now you can stay broad, but consider the idea. I think there's something there. I've seen info-marketers help get people IT jobs. The training is very well received.

      But no doubt, you can also go broad.
      I'm not going to dislike you at all for posting something like that, in fact, if you had a look at my ideas notebook on my desk you'd see a much more developed version of what you've spoken about. The other half of our business is recruitment, of which a most of the recruiters specialise in engineering. We have the ability to make a product designed to get you a job in engineering; for instance. I've planned to record hiring managers, HR teams and MDs/GMs to provide an insight on the job search market, things they want to see, etc - you name it! Obviously it involves completely transforming the site's purpose around, but it may well be worthwhile and there's definitely the ability to take this route if it's worth switching the model.

      That's just it, I have so many ideas, I know what I want to convey. You have a better idea now of what I want too; but a fresh customer has no idea. They have no idea of the depth of the system, they have no idea of what I want to add. I learn everyday what I am doing right, and more importantly what I am doing wrong. Every bit of this thread and others I have made to gauge feedback help and I feel like I'm making headway.

      It's just so difficult to transfer the masses of ideas and info I have in my head for how I want to steer this project to the audience. Hell, I feel like I'm in the job search, desperate, struggling but I'm slowly getting there. Your advice and that of others has been invaluable so thank-you very much. I'll have to keep trying different angles until I decide on one, ideally I'd like to be able to implement this in a broad manner, but maybe starting off more niche focused will make it easier to target, more cost effective and produce better results.
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    You're suffering from a common condition: analysis paralysis.

    I think all of us have been there from time to time.

    The key to getting rid of it? Setting clear priorities and goals. What do you want/need to achieve, and in what order?

    A related story: I wad once overwhelmed with applying to grad school, studying for and scheduling the GRE entrance test, looking for a job, moving, etc.

    Too much at once. Your brain wants to try and solve everything, but it can't. And trying is going to lead to a whole lot of stress.

    My dad put it in perspective for me: first food and shelter. That's covered? OK, what next? Focus on finding a job waiting tables, or focus on studying for something that could start your career? You want a career and not a job? OK, what school best supports that career path?

    One step at a time, man. You have to bring this back up to the big picture view and figure out which angle is your strongest so you know where to focus your energies.

    Happy to help, and best of luck.
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