Copywriters soon to go the way of toll both collectors!

by Raydal
36 replies
Just picked up this one from a FB post. Copywriters are
about to be replaced by computers.

Persado Raises $21 Million to Replace Human Copywriters With Computers - Venture Capital Dispatch - WSJ

-Ray Edwards
#collectors #copywriter #toll
  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      Hey, Bencivenga! Sounds to me like someone's talkin' smack...
      "We have never lost to a human," Mr. Vratskides said. "I'm a mathematician , and I can guarantee you, it's like a computer losing to a human on a chess game, even worse than that...It incorporates a lot of randomness to get there, it's like getting a needle in a haystack. We built the haystack. The human brain does not work this way."
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  • Profile picture of the author joaquin112
    Something that can rival humans in terms of writing long copy (and not just spinning headlines) is still decades away.
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  • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
    I thought Upworthy already used this...
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  • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
    Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

    Just picked up this one from a FB post. Copywriters are
    about to be replaced by computers.

    Persado Raises $21 Million to Replace Human Copywriters With Computers - Venture Capital Dispatch - WSJ

    -Ray Edwards
    Da Na na naaah....na na...na...nan...naaaah....

    He was crushed...

    But then they saved him....

    Rebuilding the damaged pieces...

    Ray....the $21M...man.

    How could they replace the veterans?

    Scary thing is people are doing so much crap online...

    Metting people...chatting ...sharing...

    Would they notice???

    Is this the last stand of copywriting?

    Maybe they will "HOOK UP" people like Ray and the other copywriter brains out there so when they pass their copy can live on.

    Stay tuned...

    Coming soon..

    "The Superheroes of Copywriting"

    Just enter your product here........
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  • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
    It'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

    It's in WSJ rather than some random blog. It appears to have solid stats upon which to base its bold claims.

    Do I see it taking over completely? Nah.

    They may be removing the human element, but they can't remove it completely. Ultimately a human has to decide whether to use the software. A large contingent are petrified of this kind of artificial intelligence.

    It almost accidentally created an added benefit to human-written copy...
    Signature

    Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

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  • Ray,

    Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

    Copywriters are about to be replaced by computers
    Not happening. Will this software reduce access to specific clients? Sure!

    But it will make room for better copywriters. How?

    We will study this software's copy controls.

    Let's just say, there's a new kid on the block who is about to hand over it's secrets.

    "Algorithms?" "We Don't Need No Stinking Algorithms!"
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
      In years gone by, as a tournament chess player and software developer, I watched as computer chess grew in strength... to the point where it routinely beats the best chess players in the world.

      Will the same thing happen with computer copywriting?

      I don't believe so.

      Humans possess something computers never will... inspiration.

      With new products and new mechanisms for existing products constantly appearing, computers will always be (at best) slightly behind the curve.

      Alex
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    • Profile picture of the author splitTest
      Originally Posted by ThePromotionalGuy View Post

      Ray,



      Not happening. Will this software reduce access to specific clients? Sure!

      But it will make room for better copywriters. How?

      We will study this software's copy controls.

      Let's just say, there's a new kid on the block who is about to hand over it's secrets.

      "Algorithms?" "We Don't Need No Stinking Algorithms!"

      Yep. It can enhance what copywriters do, but it won't be able to replace them.

      From the article: "Persado's software is successful because it's solving what is essentially a finite mathematical problem, Mr. Vratskides says, incorporating the components that go into persuading someone--the language, the emotions, the product features--and then picking the right combination of phrases to get them to act... running quickly through all possible combinations and then testing which approaches work best."

      I'll bet its main utility will turn out to be for testing and combining various successful elements -- headlines, sales appeals, etc. that have been written (or at minimum edited) by human copywriters.

      The article doesn't make it clear whether the program actually writes or not, which is telling. In fact the software website's headline is "What if there were a way to use data to write the perfect message?"

      And neither the article nor the website offers up any samples.

      Some programs actually write (eg. Narrative Science, which writes article blurbs), but I'd guess that this "copywriting" program just pieces stuff together and tests combinations.

      A few copywriters already offer similar "manual" systems for putting together sales appeals... Doesn't Seth Czerepak sell such a system?

      One thing the program definitely does is confirm Eugene Schwartz's angle:

      "Copy is not written. If anyone tells you 'you write copy', sneer at them. Copy is not written. Copy is assembled. You do not write copy, you assemble it. You are working with a series of building blocks, you are putting the building blocks together, and then you are putting them in certain structures, you are building a little city of desire for your person to come and live in." -- Eugene Schwartz, Author, Breakthrough Advertising

      Anyway, machines aren't going to replace human writers for a helluva long time to come. Let alone copywriters. I'd be more concerned about "off-shoring"...
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  • Profile picture of the author Curtis2011
    It sounds like the business is not replacing copywriters but has merely built a very advanced split testing algorithm.
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  • Profile picture of the author dmarc
    There is too much emotion and too many contextual variables for a computer to ever effectively replace a quality copywriter. I think there are too many subtleties for a computer to create truly great copy.


    Maybe I shouldn't say it could never happen, but I sure do think it will be quite a while before it will
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  • Profile picture of the author d3communications
    Maybe this will lead to the same changes that I see in my main industry (I'm part owner in a translation/communications company in Tokyo). My market is rapidly splitting into two:

    (1) Low-end work that is barely readable, but CHEAP and "good enough" (machine translation and/or cheap labor in the Philippines, China, etc.).
    (2) High-end work that is "translation" indistinguishable from the best native English writers/copy writes (Expensive...essentially original writing).

    I keep warning translators out there that they have to start thinking of themselves as professional writers. They need to produce high-end content, or they will lose work to the low-end. There won't be anything left in the middle.

    It's a hell of a lot of work to educate clients and potential clients, though. Especially when they can't see the differences.

    So, will machines replace copy writers? Sure, it could happen (eventually) on the low end with uneducated clients.

    This coming from someone who once said (not too many years ago) that machine translation would never replace human translation.
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    • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
      Originally Posted by d3communications View Post

      Maybe this will lead to the same changes that I see in my main industry (I'm part owner in a translation/communications company in Tokyo). My market is rapidly splitting into two:

      (1) Low-end work that is barely readable, but CHEAP and "good enough" (machine translation and/or cheap labor in the Philippines, China, etc.).
      (2) High-end work that is "translation" indistinguishable from the best native English writers/copy writes (Expensive...essentially original writing).

      I keep warning translators out there that they have to start thinking of themselves as professional writers. They need to produce high-end content, or they will lose work to the low-end. There won't be anything left in the middle.

      It's a hell of a lot of work to educate clients and potential clients, though. Especially when they can't see the differences.

      So, will machines replace copy writers? Sure, it could happen (eventually) on the low end with uneducated clients.

      This coming from someone who once said (not too many years ago) that machine translation would never replace human translation.
      Machines are still a ways off - I got a corporate gift recently, a branded electronic thingamabob. Hell if I know what it is, as its "manual" calls it Smatr mobile power (sic) and states step 1 is "power detection, press the button, the lamp is notlit, the low battery needs to be charged, the bright blue light when charging.ca conlinue to use (sic)" and step 2 is "he following method-oriented products charging way"

      I've never used the goddamn thing.
      Signature

      Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

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      • Profile picture of the author d3communications
        That's kinda my point...some company was only willing to pay for "good enough" (low end/cheap) instead of paying for high quality. I don't think machines will ever be as good as human translation (or human copy writing for that matter), but the challenge is in how to compete against "good enough," especially when the client isn't educated in the differences. At some point in the future, the machines will take over that low end of the market. The better-than-machine-but-still-mediocre level (that I see every day from translators) is going to go away, and those translators who don't learn how to really write are going to be squeezed out.
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  • Profile picture of the author MaelPadil
    Thanks Raydal. but i really dont think,that 100% happen because sometime,word is soul..i mean,u need some psychology to make that word impress the target which in here is human.
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  • Profile picture of the author BudaBrit
    This is relevant: The robot cookbook: can a supercomputer write recipes? | Life and style | The Guardian

    Basically, it shows that, while the most intelligent computer can get the basics right, it just can't get it as right as a human.
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  • Profile picture of the author shawnlebrun
    I don't know.... I just find it hard to believe a computer has the ability to tap into empathy the way a human soul and personal experience can provide.

    I try to write copy from the perspective of "being in the prospects"... and that's the big problem. I've never seen a robot with shoes.

    But hey, if Gary Busey can learn how to use Amazon Fire... anything is possible in this life....
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  • Profile picture of the author TjarkHartmann
    Here's an e-mail I got from Drayton Bird.

    Chilling news for copywriters - from the Wall Street Journal.

    "Improbable? Terrifying?

    Maybe. But a firm called Persado has raised $21 million because its computer has proved its superiority in tests.

    This fiendish device creates automated messages to persuade people to act - routine but important stuff like renewing a contract.

    The Wall Street Journal reports that Citi uses Persado for its credit cards and says its emails' open-rate has increased by 70% and click through rate by 114%.

    "We have never lost to a human," says Persado's founder, Alex Vratskides.

    And you know what? I believe him. I bet it works for many simple jobs because:

    a) Most copywriters are plain bad.

    b) Many routine tasks are given to the less competent, though I think practical things like renewals are far more important to customers (and marketers) than guff about our amazing new gizmo.

    c) Many - maybe most - have bogus creativity injected by writers bored with doing the same old job.

    Whenever one of my zealous Young Bird starts getting "creative" I send an abusive message...."
    Signature

    Tjark: Pronounced like "Jacques" in Jacques Cousteau.

    www.TjarkHartmann.com

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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    "One machine can do the work of 50 ordinary men, but no machine can do the work of one extraordinary man."

    -Thomas Edison

    What separates the ordinary from the extraordinary?

    Ordinary people are good craftsman at best. They get paid because of their skills and, in some cases, because of what they know. But extraordinary people are creators. They get paid, not just for what they know and for what they can DO with what they know, they get paid for how they think.

    They have the ability to tap into a source of creative power which transcends our current knowledge base and which creates brand new concepts out of nothing. They don't compete, they create.

    Will machines ever be able to do that? Maybe. But if that day ever comes, we've got bigger worries than just losing our trade.
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    • Profile picture of the author splitTest
      Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

      "One machine can do the work of 50 ordinary men, but no machine can do the work of one extraordinary man."

      -Thomas Edison

      What separates the ordinary from the extraordinary?

      Ordinary people are good craftsman at best. They get paid because of their skills and, in some cases, because of what they know. But extraordinary people are creators. They get paid, not just for what they know and for what they can DO with what they know, they get paid for how they think.

      They have the ability to tap into a source of creative power which transcends our current knowledge base and which creates brand new concepts out of nothing. They don't compete, they create.

      Will machines ever be able to do that? Maybe. But if that day ever comes, we've got bigger worries than just losing our trade.
      Problem with that is most copywriters are pretty ordinary people (self included).

      Still, I doubt the machines will replace even the "good craftsman" any time soon in copywriting...
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      • My question is, "What prompted an individual(s) to conclude to rid themselves of copywriters?"

        Who thinks like this?
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        • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
          I suspect that computer program cannot come up
          with a angle that has never been done before.

          How would it ever decide to come up with this
          beauty...


          Not likely.

          Or come up with a whole new category,
          like carpet dust mite remover to replace
          carpet cleaners.

          Unlikely.

          Or how-about resetting a buyers criteria
          for buying web design?

          Starting to get far fetched now.

          How-about deciding where a buyer is on the
          time scale of readiness to buy...as a buyer wants
          to know different things at each stage.

          Computer going to decide that or is it already programmed in?

          Is it going to come up with the biggest pain point
          a buyer has with dealing with other service providers
          so you can guarantee it won't happen?

          Doubt it.

          Will it know all the options a buyer has then systematically
          discredit each one so you are the only choice?

          Can't see it.

          All the above along with others I won't mention
          are all available to a master copywriter that a mere machine
          will crook on trying to replicate.

          Best,
          Doctor E. Vile
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          • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
            Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

            I suspect that computer program cannot come up
            with a angle that has never been done before.

            How would it ever decide to come up with this
            beauty...
            Thanks for some inspiration to work on.

            I want to rush out now and make a strong positioning video. Although we use a similar approach in person I'm sure a bit of pre-selling via video is going to add to our conversions.

            Or like when I wrote a headline for a press release.

            No Aussies at the World Boomerang Championships

            Even though Qantas is sponsoring the Swiss Team and Foster's is sponsoring the Americans there will be no Australians at Next Month's Boomerang World Championships in St Louis.

            That got me 3 and a half minutes at 6.10pm during the No.1 National News broadcast....

            and $25K sponsorship deal by 6.24pm.

            The following night we had another 3 minutes receiving the sponsorship cheque from Aristocrat Leisure Industries.
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            • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
              That's crazy, no Aussie at the world boomerang throwing competition,
              and not held on Aussie soil plus Aussie companies
              sponsoring overseas people...what a brilliant outrage
              piece for the media to grab onto.

              Best,
              Doctor E. Vile

              Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

              Thanks for some inspiration to work on.

              I want to rush out now and make a strong positioning video. Although we use a similar approach in person I'm sure a bit of pre-selling via video is going to add to our conversions.

              Or like when I wrote a headline for a press release.

              No Aussies at the World Boomerang Championships

              Even though Qantas is sponsoring the Swiss Team and Foster's is sponsoring the Americans there will be no Australians at Next Month's Boomerang World Championships in St Louis.

              That got me 3 and a half minutes at 6.10pm during the No.1 National News broadcast....

              and $25K sponsorship deal by 6.24pm.

              The following night we had another 3 minutes receiving the sponsorship cheque from Aristocrat Leisure Industries.
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          • DEV,

            Loved that video especially around the 9 minute mark when he says "You can even nickle plate your crack pipe."
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            • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
              Originally Posted by ThePromotionalGuy View Post

              DEV,

              Loved that video especially around the 9 minute mark when he says "You can even nickle plate your crack pipe."
              And a machine would come up with that turn of phrase...
              yeah right!

              Best,
              Doctor E. Vile
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

    Just picked up this one from a FB post. Copywriters are
    about to be replaced by computers.

    Persado Raises $21 Million to Replace Human Copywriters With Computers - Venture Capital Dispatch - WSJ

    -Ray Edwards
    That's awesome, it also shows once again that personal data is BIG money.

    Example...

    These variables may be too numerous for a human to calculate. In getting a customer to renew a contract, for instance, should Verizon Wireless, a Persado customer, suggest in the subject line that the customer will be rewarded for her loyalty if she renews, or that she will miss out on a new phone by not acting soon?
    ...all they're dong is checking a database to see when was the last time a customer recieved a new phone from Verizon & doing the math,
    • x amount of months + contract expiring = promote free phone

    It still doesn't eliminate copywriters because the copy has to originate from somewhere, the software is only spinning data inside the copy & weeding out low performing copy, example:

    {Mark|Kelly|James} {get|receive} {your|a} {free|discounted|new} {iphone 6|Samsung Galaxy S5|Nokia Lumia 1520} {today|while supplies last|now}!
    • Mark get your discounted Samsung Galaxy S5 while supplies last!
    • James get a free Nokia Lumia 1520 today!
    • Kelly receive your new iphone 6 now!
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  • Profile picture of the author Cant Tell
    Should I think again if I really want to start studying copywriting? Or is this just something that I shouldn't be worried about?
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    • Profile picture of the author MRMagMark
      Originally Posted by Cant Tell View Post

      Should I think again if I really want to start studying copywriting? Or is this just something that I shouldn't be worried about?
      Short answers: no. Don't worry about it.

      Sure. A software program might work if you want to sound like every other bland company out there... if you don't want to clearly and persuasively communicate the difference between you and your competitor... and if you don't know how to speak directly to your audience.

      Companies realize they have to turn around their marketing a lot faster than ever before -- and produce more content. So they're looking for workarounds and shortcuts.

      This is why I'm a big believer in bring more to the table than copywriting.

      Learn about funnels. Autoresponders. Opt-ins. What works, what doesn't. Read. Read. Read.

      A good book to complement this topic is Dan Pink's A Whole New Mind: Why Right-Brainers Will Rule...A Whole New Mind: Why Right-Brainers Will Rule... .

      Here's the deal: we're drowning in information. There is so much content marketing out there and unfortunately, bad content. Automation will only bring more mediocre content that is about as effective as those silly mission statements that doesn't tell you much at all about the company.

      What really matters is context.

      Why should I care about what a company is telling me? I don't want to know the "what" but the "why."

      Why should I care about your product or service?
      Why will it make a difference in my life?
      Why is your choice better than your competitor's?

      The buyer is looking for guidance, someone to explain these things to him or her. Not baked-in content that just blathers on about what everyone else is blathering on about.

      Tell me what it means.

      That's your buyer asking you to do this. And I don't believe for one second that a computer software program is going to be able to rise to the challenge.

      You'd think the content mills would already be proof positive that automation doesn't work well in this field. You'll get dinged by the search engines and ignored by your audience. Not a win in anyone's book.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nikhil V Nair
    At first I thought it is impossible but then
    my opinion changed.


    Imagine this new software first ask your Niche

    1) Affiliate marketing
    2) Copywriting
    3) Weight loss
    4) Hair loss
    5) Information product marketing
    6) Learn Golf
    7) Get more clents for Dentists etc

    You choose your market and let the software to
    write the Copy

    Imagine this software has even the minute details
    of all these niches.


    Is it impossible to write a decent copy?

    This is want the software does in my imagination

    1) Choose a headline from it's database(give you a lot
    more variations to test)

    2) Ask a lot of benefits oriented questions as opening
    (from database)

    3) Tell the problem

    4) Agitate it

    5) Introduce your offer

    6) Persuasive bullet points that arouse curiosity(from a template)

    7) Guarantee

    8) Call to Action

    9) P.S

    Or simply the AIDA Formula(or any other formula)


    If a copywriter can turn his "how to be a golf pro" copy in to
    "how to be a Tennis pro" Copy with minimum effort

    Why can't this software?


    On the empathy factor and some other areas, I doubt
    the perfection of this software, but it should be able to
    write some decent copy.

    This software may not be able to write a
    "One legged Golfer" kind of copy(still it can use it as a template )

    I expect this software can do some wonders.

    Imagine this software giving you hundreds of versions
    with different formulas, headings and bullets ready to test

    Simply, This Software can be real threat to Template based Copywriters.


    This software may be available in different versions. A Dentist can buy
    a Version that create Copy for Dentists Only. He doesn't need the
    full version.


    Copywriters who use their imagination and enthusiasm in writing,
    I don't think this software is a big threat.


    Who will be one of the "hungry crowd" for this software?

    Copywriters for Sure. But they must pray to God their clients
    never know about this software.

    These are all my imaginations. See how I used my imagination
    before the software is released
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  • From the website:

    1. Persado maps the marketing language that applies to your brand, parsing words and phrases into emotional, descriptive and formatting values.

    2. Persado creates millions of variations of a marketing message, considering all combinations of emotions, features, and format options.

    3. Persado discovers the most persuasive emotions, and generates language that will drive the greatest response.
    It's #2 that I'm particularly interested in here.

    Is he saying that the software generates, and tests, millions of messages?

    At first glance that seems impossible. Who has that big a list size?

    If this guy has actually "never lost to a human before," I'm guessing it's because he's testing the first message the app comes up with against the first message the human comes up with, and all these split tests are probably dealing with very short messages.

    I'm also questioning whether this software is really a replacement for copywriters at all. How does it know what to write without some kind of input from a human operator? I'm guessing what it does is takes a basic input from a writer and then develops a variation on it that's likely to convert the best.

    Nonetheless, I'd be very interested to see this thing in action.
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    • Profile picture of the author wilder1047
      A bit more research...

      Here's a couple of screen shots:





      And, a couple of zingers...

      One limitation, though, is that it needs the scale of a consumer audience — so Persado can’t actually use its technology in its own (business-to-business focused) marketing.
      It doesn't actually specify the size of the consumer market required to make it viable.

      The sales and marketing for the software still remains heavily... human.

      The new Series B funding will be used to hire more salespeople and building — interestingly enough — a human-populated marketing department
      He doesn't actually see this replacing copywriters

      Will Persado and similar systems put digital copywriters out of a job?

      “Absolutely not,” Vratskides insisted.

      Marketers can write the wraparound text, and, he pointed out, they can use Persado to generate the centerpiece. “Persado is replacing the gut, the randomness,” he said.

      Apart from this. Everything is becoming automated, there's a hotel in Japan opening up that even has robots cleaning the rooms!

      I would think of all ventures in the online business world, copywriting is the safest from pure automation.

      And even if it were automated, if you look at web design, SEO etc, these things have had software solutions for a few years now...

      and people are still selling $10,000 websites!
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