Don't Insult A Copywriter Like This

LOL, that's funny, but no. I like to build relationships with my clients and let them know I'll be there until the end. Of course, there are bigger copywriters who really do have to filter themselves or they'd be bombarded with free-loaders. I have to watch out for that myself.

In my first or second year as a copywriter, I had a guy from the UK contact me about writing copy for his company's web site.

The company was new, and sold on-and off-site C-level management courses and seminars. Price point started at about 5K (pounds). On-site courses would take place at the company's dazzling new headquarters, and off-site at the prospect customer's place of choosing. All courses/seminars would be conducted by highly qualified people in each subject.

Okiedokie. No probs.

So I take an initial deposit, and get going on the first draft.

Only one teensy weensy problem.

None of it existed.

Zip. Nada. Big fat zero.

No building. The address literally didn't exist. No faculty (not even prospective faculty). No curricula. No course outlines, of any sort. No schedule calendar. Nothing.

And the only phone numbers for the "company" went to the cell phones of this guy and some woman.

My job was supposed to be to write in such a way as to convince prospects to order these courses through the web site. Plonking down their credit cards for full payment in advance.

I didn't find out that the whole thing was a complete scam until I started pressing him for details for faculty bios, course information, etc.

When I explained to this guy that I could not, and would not, simply invent stuff that didn't exist, he went ballistic. Started making threatening phone calls at 2 a.m., etc. He was gonna come track me down, beat me up, yada, yada, yada.

Finally, I told him I had notified the FBI, and they had a tracer on my phone line, and my home under 24-hr survelliance.

Never heard from him again.

I don't think this guy had any problems sleeping at night.

Addendum: a couple of years later, I looked up his URL, out of curiosity. He had gotten a site up, including copy clearly written by some ESL writer. Or maybe English Third-or-Fourth Language.

There was no way he was going to convince any C-level anyone with that site, but I gave the scam guys a heads-up anyway. A couple of months later, the site had completely vanished.

Yeah, he was one for the memories, that one!

You're missing the second sentence.

"He says he wants to create the product based off the sales letter I write."

There is no definition of the product. The client wants Matt to make things up, and then the client promises to create something that meets the description Matt gave.

If he'll pay in advance, I'd be tempted to take the job, and write a sales letter for a product that the guy can't possibly make.

"Learn how I make over a thousand dollars an hour, using only shoe polish and bits of string!"

If he complains about it, tell him product development simply isn't your department, and point him at any number of Dilbert cartoons about talking to marketing before you consult with engineering.

Actually, that sounds like it might be fun!

Plus, if you don't really like the client you can write a sales letter describing a product that's impossible to create. It'd be entertaining just to watch them struggle!

Ralph

Yes, you could. And pretty useless sales copy it would be, too.

Good sales copy creates a belief in the reader that the product will work for them. Good sales copy relies on persuasively connecting the dots for the reader. Good sales copy pulls the unique characteristics of the product and produces them as evidence that the product is better than any of the alterantives on the market.

If you can tell us how to do that - honestly and ethically - from a list of bullets - please, by all means, share the info. It would save copywriters enormous amounts of time.

A list of bullets is useful for creating a product outline. The product is essential for producing the sales copy.

You can do pre-sales copy for a product that isn't yet complete. And take pre-orders. That's been done before, and nothing wrong with it.

But that's not what we're talking about here.

Can I write copy just from a list of bullet points?

Sure I can.

But it will be mediocre and amateurish copy. And much of it will be skillful bullshet.

A list of bullets can help you outline the product, but that's just the beginning. Because a huge part of the copywriter's job is to dimensionalize the product for the reader.

Bullet points are like the bones of a skeleton. Bones can tell you if a person is male or female. They can tell you if the person carried heavy loads, or did manual labor.

But bones can't tell you what color the person's hair was, or whether they preferred to sneakers over sandals. They won't tell you if the person was a gardener or an auto mechanic, or a college professor or a surgeon. Bones can't describe the warmth of a person's smile or their quick sense of humor.

Bones can't, by themsleves, dimensionalize a person for you.

Bones, like bullets, are just the beginning.

And how do you describe the product's effectiveness in your copy - when the product doesn't exist?

Using your example of writing copy for a speedboat based on blueprints - any engineer will tell you that, until you build a prototype and test it, you don't know exactly how a design will perform.

Moreover, how do you convince the reader that the product absolutely will work for them, when all you have is a laundry list of stuff the product developer says will be in the finished product?

And if the product developer decides - after the fact - not to include something you promised in your copy? Guess who's on the hook for fraud - besides the developer?

Yup. That's right! YOU are. Because YOU wrote the copy that promised something that YOU couldn't ensure would be delivered. The FTC takes a very dim view of that sort of thing. And copywriters have served jail time for making promises in their copy that weren't delivered in the product.

The product developer's job is to develop the product. The copywriter's job is to help sell the developed product.

To write a sales letter that does NOT reveal to the reader that the product does not yet exist is, IMHO, unethical. Pre-sales is a different animal.

A pre-sales letter clearly states that the product is not ready for delivery. The reader is not conned into believing they are paying for something they can get right away. In your speedboat example, buyers of custom-built speedboats know they have to wait for the boat to be built to their specifications. And they're ok with that.

I've seen pre-sales letters for information products that clearly stated that the product was in development. The copy uses phrases like "to reserve your copy of...". No testimonials are offered. No statements of results, or promises of benefits.

Completely different from a sales letter, which generally promises results or benefits. Not the same thing, at all.

The issue here is wilful deception.

Not to mention that it's just a bad business model.

And, in spite of the fact that both Karbo and Collier had writing chops, the resulting books had a huge return rate. Because they were crap.

Karbo's book didn't stop boomeranging until he revised it thoroughly for the second printing. And Collier never again wrote the ad first.

Also, it's worth noting that both these guys pulled this off more than 35 years ago. These weren't digital products, like so much of IM products today. You HAD to wait 10 - 14 days to receive your purchase. Plus, buyers were more gullible, and regulation was more lax. Times have changed.

That's true IF the person writing the sales pitch is also the product creator. In this case, it can be useful to solidify the idea. But to sell the product as though it already exists is, IMHO, skanky.

And 99.99% of the time, a prospect who approaches you to write a sales letter for a product that doesn't exist, has only a vague vision, and does NOT understand the marketplace. And has little or no budget to create the project and fulfil orders.

Bill Myers sells "hard copy" (physical) products. If he were selling a downloadable digital delivery product, I doubt he would suggest that entrepreuneurs take this approach.

IF you already have a very clear plan for developing your product... and IF the product is physical and not a digital download, so that you have lead time in which to actually make it... and IF you are experienced enough to really crank out the production necessary to create a decent product in just a couple of days... THEN this approach may work for you.

Writing a sales letter for a non-existent product is something I just prefer not to do. Pre-sales, yes. Sales, no. If I completely trusted the source, and trusted them to fulfil their committment to the buyers, I'd consider it. But that hasn't happened to me.

So, I choose to work with products and projects that I can ethically believe in.

Actually, I'm not. I can't speak for anyone else, but I sell the product that really can help them achieve the lifestyle. If the product is crap, I won't sell it. I'm not going to take a turd and sell it as filet mignon.

Well enough to spend 10k a day on Google?

Well, a couple of minutes wouldn't be a waste of my time... I could have laughed it off, and I can pretty much guarantee there are hundred other things we do in the day that could be counted as a waste of time, so of course, I would have taken those minutes to relax or something, which I normally do when people bug me even upon having clearly told them I don't want to be bugged. I'd have said "wasting" a couple of minutes for talking back and forth 4 little phrases is a little too much baloney, but then I don't want to do that- for I can probably see where you are coming from. You sensed they were not doing enough, and at least for me- hunches are usually right.

Now, I am not an SEO expert by any means, but I do know that Article Writing doesn't and can't encompass SEO on its own- neither can you get the flexibility of shifting around things for SEO on a free blogger account, so there's that.

I am not saying they know what theyr'e talking about- I am saying they were probably rehashing info that they read/saw somehwere in a course. Not what one is supposed to do- but that's what every one says... At least at some point of time to newbies. I do that occassionally, and I see people doing that all over this forum. Very rarely does someone talk about the nuts and bolts- About how one needs to try out the info they are going to sell.

And yes- I wouldn't work with such a person as well... Maybe they would have rubbed me the wrong way too... But I certainly wouldn't go talking about how it's an insult to me in a forum. Maybe you did that because that was the very first time someone approached you?

Of course they ought to have known the prices, but maybe they saw a few $200 copy WSO's which really do exist and thought maybe they could negotiate a little on that. Possible? Yes. I am not trying to justify them or say that you are wrong... But yes, and pardon me, but I do feel its over-kill.

Anyways, keep up the good work... You have a lot of clients to take care of.

-Lakshay

Ahhh, that's the thing. I HAVE read what you wrote, which is the only reason why I offered my comment

This is pretty much part of what I'm getting at (see below). I won't mention my own rates and particular situation within the body of this very thread like all of the other copywriters here since it's simply not necessary

So what? :rolleyes:

Do you really need to type out your schedule and price point for all to read to justify that you don't have time to waste :confused:

Me too. I gotta get to sleep