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Taking My Business to the Next Level - Suggestions?

by ecoverartist
23 replies
First, just let me say -- I LOVE copywriting. I love everything about it -- working with GREAT products, getting into the prospect's head, discovering their mindset and crafting the right words that have them nodding "YES! This is exactly what I've been looking for!" from the moment they read the headline.

Of course, the fact that I love it hardly makes it seem like work. When I started offering copywriting on the forum, I was one of those people you'd love to hate, doing sales letters for $97. I had been working for multi-million dollar companies in the past writing copy for them but couldn't use that work in an online portfolio. So I started really low to get an influx of writing projects in several different areas so that I didn't have to box myself in to one specific niche.

I've got some samples up online if you'd like to read some to see "where I'm coming from". Those are examples of the $97 sales letters.

Now I realize some of the people who paid $97 will think I'm staying at that rate forever - and there's just no way that's going to happen now, not with all the research and work that goes on behind the scenes. Copywriters know it's more than just putting fingers to keys...it's about psychology, flow, marketing, emotion and so on.

My question is then, how do I take my copywriting business to the next level? I don't want to forever be pinned as "the cheap copywriter" but it seems like a lot of people who frequent the WSO forum are just looking for dirt cheap deals (and they're furious when they see they've been had!).

Of course I can write a WSO that would knock your socks off but I seriously doubt there have been any high ticket service sells in the forum here. At the same time, I do want to help marketers who are looking to seriously build their business and pay a fair price, and I know they come here.

I wonder if I'm the only one here who has the hardest time marketing myself but no problem selling for anyone else?
#business #level #pricing #suggestions #taking #wso
  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    Get out in your community and market yourself as a marketing
    fixer. Marketing yourself strictly online as an online copywriter
    is tantamount to missing the forest for all the trees.

    Closing ratios with clients you meet face-to-face will be off-the-hook;
    usually about triple what most consultants get on the phone.

    Of course there is a lot to consultative selling, but in my experience
    it's just plain easier and more fun than playing the differentiation
    game as an online provider dealing with clients remotely. It's very
    easy for an online shopper to commoditize what you do by shopping
    around - when you deal with your local community it is practically
    impossible for folks to commoditize what you do... especially when
    you know the names and ages of their children.

    While it may be true that there aren't a lot of big fish clients in your
    local are looking for a $10,000+ marketing overhaul, it's also true that
    if people know you and like you they'll recommend you to others.

    It's not really that complicated when you break it down into just
    getting involved with your local business community and helping people
    succeed.

    It's offbeat, a little dated, and not many people have read it, but
    Jeffrey Lant's "Money Making Marketing" is one of the best books
    I've ever read about the nitty-gritty of getting the business. It kicks
    "Guerilla Marketing's" butt.
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  • Profile picture of the author colmodwyer
    Hey Sherice,

    There's a big wide world outside of the WSO.

    Also, if you want to move to the next level I'd stop charging $97... Even if you write as well as Bencivenga, if you charge $97 then that's all you'll get. Generally, a copywriter will get paid what they're worth, eventually.

    So that's a figure you need to figure out.

    Colm
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Hi Sherice,

      Kudos to you for wanting to get out of the low price, high volume copywriting angle. I'm going to give you some bullet-proof advice which *might* seem a bit rough even if that is not my intent.

      Sherice...You have a marketing problem.

      All of the forum advice in the world won't help you completely solve it until you truly understand marketing at it's core.

      I'm not talking about which marketing techniques to use like article writing, blogging, PPC, forum posts, etc, etc. None of them are a core strategy.

      I'm talking about how to position your business based on how you want to market it. I'm talking about deciding how you want to compete on the marketplace as a copywriter to attact well-qualified prospects.

      For example, you can compete on price, customer price, or quality of work delivered. You can offer 2 out of 3 but not all 3. In other words, you can't be the cheapest, offer the best customer service and the best quality sales copy too. This is just a tiny sliver of the core marketing strategy I'm referring to but it can make or break your chances of success.

      Yes, you can get four figure or more paying clients from this forum. There are a number of copywriters I know who do it consistently, including me.

      It doesn't happen overnight.

      You have to have a portfolio and the self-confidence to ask for higher and higher fees. You have to feel you're worth every penny and more when you ask for $2000, $5000, $10,000 and up for a copywriting project. You have to have the portfolio, testimonials, and track record of proven results to command more money.

      How do you go from charging $97 to four or five figures for a sales copy? You take it one step at a time. You take your lumps, learn from your mistakes, and keep honing your skills.

      One more thing I'll mention... the more you charge, the greater the pressure to deliver copy that converts for your client. If someone paid $97 for a sales letter that bombs, it stinks but they only made a small investment in hiring a professional copywriter. If someone paid $2000, $5000, $10000 for a sales letter that bombs... well, you better be ready to figure why it bombed and solve it fast.

      Hope that helps,

      Mike

      P.S. Sherice, I couldn't find your copywriting site in your sig file. That's an important marketing tool for promoting yourself in a forum like this one.
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  • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
    Sherice.

    First of all- I am glad that you're willing to step out of the shiny little pond of cheap copywriting.

    Great thinking. But what you need is probably more than that. So here are my thoughts...

    Be ready to lower your own conversions and increase your clients' conversions.

    If you charge $1000/copy, for instance, right away- Be prepared to see a drop in your own conversion rates. Of course you make more money this way with lesser work, but you'd need to have an equaly high increase in eyeballs that see your offer, so you can keep yourself busy. It won't be long before you start getting referrals... especially if you write for not-so-tiny niches. Obvious, right?

    Now- here's the thing...

    If you have a site that sells your own copywriting services, then you probably make it clear right on the website itself what you charge per project, and you could increase your rates monthly, as your expereince increases.

    As you grow as a copy writer, your offer grows. You take into your own hands testing and tweaking. You charge more, and clients pay you for the initial testing as well. You are not worried about turning a profit- all you care is about the conversion numbers. Leave out the misty details of adwords planning to your client, it's not your job. You just need targeted traffic to gauge and test conversions. That's it.

    And if you're charging $4k for a piece of copy, you gotta ensure it sells as well as it can. Or at least as best as YOU can make it sell. That's it.

    The number of clients keeps decreasing, and the time allotted to each project keeps increasing. So you delve deeper into the mindsets of your prospects until you can command $10K and work on just piece a month.

    As you work your way up, you'll get to know more about marketing twists and story spinning. And that's what will set you apart. Also, your offer will. For if you are about to write and autoresponder series as well as squeeze page for your client- you basically have an entire portion of their marketing in your hands, and then you have quite a lot of permutations to play around with and maximize conversions.

    Now- here's the deal-- You don't have to step it up slowly... you can offer your copywriting services at $500 till you get your next client and then immediately increase your domand to $800 for the next. This is what I call the quantum leap. Pretty soon you'll have enough time for each of your client to work on their conversions.

    And yes- Don't let your clients do the interviewing. You might find filtering a handy tool as well.

    All the best
    -Lakshay
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    • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
      Sherice let me ask you a question.

      Do you want to be a copywriter?

      Or do you want to get paid exceptionally well for your copywriting & marketing skills?

      Because there is a HUGE difference.

      (And it's the reason most copywriters are broke.)

      Fact is, unless you're on the top of the pile... being a "copywriter" is for chumps.

      *Ducks for cover*

      Think about it -- you've worked your ass off for years to develop ultimate ninja money-making skills... you hold in your possession the "key" to creating cash... and you slave away at each letter for 2, 3, maybe 4 weeks or more, and for what?

      $97, $500, $5000, $10,000?

      While the product creator walks away with a cool $50k, $100k, $1,000,000.

      (Products... which are a dime a dozen. Often created in hours. Even outsourced for pennies on the dollar.)

      Does that sound like a good deal to you?

      Here's a better deal:

      3 quick ways to make half a million bucks with your copywriting skills in the next 6 months:

      1. Create your own products. 'nuff said.

      2. Market yourself offline as a CONSULTANT. You can start with simple marketing fixes/systems and get 5-figures + a percentage.

      3. Write ONE letter and license it to business owners all over the world.

      Each of those options (and I do all 3) can make you 5 - 100 times more money than what even the highest paid copywriters make.

      Copywriting is a million dollar skill to have... but few copywriters make a million bucks
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      • Profile picture of the author Matt James
        Kyle, as always, gives some great advice. But...

        There's nothing 'chumpish' about writing one letter a month and earning six figures a year. It's a pretty good lifestyle and you don't need to be a world-renowned copy genius to do that.

        Sherice, if you're only fishing in the WSO forum then yeah, you'll probably remain a $97 copywriter.

        Do you have a site for your copywriting service?

        Throw some PPC traffic at it and then get on the phone with your clients.

        You make more money by asking for more.

        It's not too hard but you need to be sure of yourself and - as Kyle says - remind the client that they're going to make $100,000 from your copy. That way your $7000 fee is tiny by comparison.

        You might want to think about taking on a mentor to improve your work, boost your confidence and maybe even forward you some contacts.

        Good luck!
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      • Profile picture of the author Keeslover
        Originally Posted by Kyle Tully View Post

        Here's a better deal:

        3 quick ways to make half a million bucks with your copywriting skills in the next 6 months:

        1. Create your own products. 'nuff said.

        2. Market yourself offline as a CONSULTANT. You can start with simple marketing fixes/systems and get 5-figures + a percentage.

        3. Write ONE letter and license it to business owners all over the world.
        Kyle, I'm assuming your #3 is talking about a sales letter...I love the idea of licensing but I have minimal experience doing sales letters. Do you license anything else?

        Thank you!
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        • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
          Originally Posted by Keeslover View Post

          Kyle, I'm assuming your #3 is talking about a sales letter...I love the idea of licensing but I have minimal experience doing sales letters. Do you license anything else?

          Thank you!
          You can license sales letters, ads, scripts... just about any marketing technique you can think of
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Ramsey
    For me, the trick was to learn that the big clients are rarely here on the forums.

    I've gotten ONE - count it - ONE good paying client from these boards. I've done plenty of low cost copy, and quite a few paid critiques. But those are what pay my rent.

    Here are a few things that have pulled in big money for me lately.
    • PPC to a sales page
    • Press releases
    • Referrals

    If you can find a great reason to do a press release - do it. I've made over $6k from just one release. It took me 20 minutes to put together, and another 20 to put it one a couple free PR websites.

    It's all about being in the right places at the right times. The PR got me high in the search rankings (plus it offered a killer service that NO other copywriter I've ever met does) and the PPC keeps me there.

    I've been using Yahoo! PPC pretty successfully lately. I chose them because most of the small business owners I've worked for in the past loved to use it over other SE's.

    Originally Posted by ecoverartist View Post

    First, just let me say -- I LOVE copywriting. I love everything about it -- working with GREAT products, getting into the prospect's head, discovering their mindset and crafting the right words that have them nodding "YES! This is exactly what I've been looking for!" from the moment they read the headline.

    Of course, the fact that I love it hardly makes it seem like work. When I started offering copywriting on the forum, I was one of those people you'd love to hate, doing sales letters for $97. I had been working for multi-million dollar companies in the past writing copy for them but couldn't use that work in an online portfolio. So I started really low to get an influx of writing projects in several different areas so that I didn't have to box myself in to one specific niche.

    I've got some samples up online if you'd like to read some to see "where I'm coming from". Those are examples of the $97 sales letters.

    Now I realize some of the people who paid $97 will think I'm staying at that rate forever - and there's just no way that's going to happen now, not with all the research and work that goes on behind the scenes. Copywriters know it's more than just putting fingers to keys...it's about psychology, flow, marketing, emotion and so on.

    My question is then, how do I take my copywriting business to the next level? I don't want to forever be pinned as "the cheap copywriter" but it seems like a lot of people who frequent the WSO forum are just looking for dirt cheap deals (and they're furious when they see they've been had!).

    Of course I can write a WSO that would knock your socks off but I seriously doubt there have been any high ticket service sells in the forum here. At the same time, I do want to help marketers who are looking to seriously build their business and pay a fair price, and I know they come here.

    I wonder if I'm the only one here who has the hardest time marketing myself but no problem selling for anyone else?
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  • Profile picture of the author ecoverartist
    Thank you all SO much for your replies! I really appreciate it, and I know I definitely shouldn't be fishing around in the WSO forum for high paying clients. I did, however, build up a considerable portfolio from it.

    RE: Offline marketing. I've been interested in it, but the area I live in is NOT conducive to brick-and-mortar businesses - unless you're an auto mechanic or taxidermist I really do prefer the online side of things because I think websites can convert really well when the offer is done right. With direct mail, it's just too easy to throw the envelope in the trash without ever opening it.

    My fear is that, let's say I do land a big project and I throw everything I know about copywriting into it (as I do with EVERY project, but that's beside the point!). If it still doesn't convert and you've analyzed the heck out of it but the fish aren't biting - what do you do? Rewrite it? Refund it?

    I agree with what Lakshay said - a filter on clients is definitely something to keep in mind. I'm not quite to the level of some pros where I have the comfort of picking and choosing who I work with, but I'm aiming to get there. And, to answer Kyle's question - I want to be someone who gets paid exceptionally well, because I know I'm worth it.

    I'm sure the kind of mentor I'd like to have charges way more than I can afford right now. Still, I understand you've got to spend money to make money... it's just a bit of a dilemma breaking out of that "cheap" mold and getting out from under that reputation.
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Ramsey
      Originally Posted by ecoverartist View Post

      My fear is that, let's say I do land a big project and I throw everything I know about copywriting into it (as I do with EVERY project, but that's beside the point!). If it still doesn't convert and you've analyzed the heck out of it but the fish aren't biting - what do you do? Rewrite it? Refund it?
      I, and many others, offer a 30 day period of rewriting if the copy isn't converting. Because what we offer is a service, it takes time. We can't just refund the money because it's time lost, which we need to use to eat with.

      Let's face it, anything can sell. It may sell poorly, but anything can sell your product. So at the very least, your client should be making the money he spent back pretty quickly.

      If the numbers just aren't in your favor though, rewrite it until they are. 30 days is just an arbitrary number, I'd actually take as many revisions as it would need to write a good piece if my clients requested it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kyle Tully
      Originally Posted by ecoverartist View Post

      RE: Offline marketing. I've been interested in it, but the area I live in is NOT conducive to brick-and-mortar businesses - unless you're an auto mechanic or taxidermist I really do prefer the online side of things because I think websites can convert really well when the offer is done right. With direct mail, it's just too easy to throw the envelope in the trash without ever opening it.
      A few quick points you might want to consider:

      1. You can send direct mail to any part of the country, or anywhere in the world. You don't need to go local. And you can do it all online. Don't even need to visit the post office or print anything yourself.

      2. Sure websites can convert well, but in most cases the potential traffic offline is 10x more than it is online. That's one of the reasons why the money is better. And you're not competing against every IMer offering them a website + autoresponder :rolleyes: Plus you get to leverage EXISTING assets rather than trying to start something from scratch. (Which makes your success rate much higher.)

      3. Direct mail response rates are often 5 - 10 times higher than online. Yes, people can throw a letter in the bin. But remember people check their inbox with their finger on the delete button, only open about 20% of their emails, and many legitimate emails never even make it to the inbox and instead land in the junk mail box.

      I know your comfort zone is online, but I promise you it's a LOT easier for someone with copywriting & marketing skills to make great money offline.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
        Kyle,

        Great points. Alot of people like to preach that direct mail is dead. And that could not be farther from the truth.

        It just makes it more effective for the people that are in it, or getting into it.

        Your right about peoples fingers are on the delete button for a e-mail. But someone is almost always going to open a plain #10 envelope that is personally addressed.

        Take care,

        Bill Jeffels
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    • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
      Originally Posted by ecoverartist View Post

      Thank you all SO much for your replies! I really appreciate it, and I know I definitely shouldn't be fishing around in the WSO forum for high paying clients. I did, however, build up a considerable portfolio from it.

      RE: Offline marketing. I've been interested in it, but the area I live in is NOT conducive to brick-and-mortar businesses - unless you're an auto mechanic or taxidermist I really do prefer the online side of things because I think websites can convert really well when the offer is done right. With direct mail, it's just too easy to throw the envelope in the trash without ever opening it.

      My fear is that, let's say I do land a big project and I throw everything I know about copywriting into it (as I do with EVERY project, but that's beside the point!). If it still doesn't convert and you've analyzed the heck out of it but the fish aren't biting - what do you do? Rewrite it? Refund it?

      I agree with what Lakshay said - a filter on clients is definitely something to keep in mind. I'm not quite to the level of some pros where I have the comfort of picking and choosing who I work with, but I'm aiming to get there. And, to answer Kyle's question - I want to be someone who gets paid exceptionally well, because I know I'm worth it.

      I'm sure the kind of mentor I'd like to have charges way more than I can afford right now. Still, I understand you've got to spend money to make money... it's just a bit of a dilemma breaking out of that "cheap" mold and getting out from under that reputation.
      Sherice,

      To your FEARS (False Evidences Appearing Real- as Mr. Ziglar would have me eat it), I'd say that when you do land a big client, and start working on their copy, you get a draft out first, right? And then, what do you do? Do you send it in? No way... I am not sure about others say, but I'd much rather test my own masterpiece through a real acid test- throw some traffic at it, and look at the numbers. If the numbers are what they should be like for the first draft, I'd send it in, so that split testing could begin.

      Otherwise, and this is where I believe your FEAR is- I'd get another copywriter to have a look at my work, and pay them to critique it. Maybe more than once- Sometimes, we just tend to miss quite a few important things in our own work that others can notice over a glance.

      I think refunds are a bad thing- not that you could avoid them, but when as a copywriter you are spending 15 hours over a project, you need to be compensated for that somehow. So, I'd much rather ask for other people's opinions on my work, and take their pointers into implementation than simply issuing a refund.

      One of the most important things you need to know is what your ideal customer/prospect looks like, what do they think and feel. If you could be in their shoes, what benefits would you be looking for? I think this is more important than any other copywriting tactic or technique. And if you speak from the place where your any one from your audience aspires to be, you exude confidence. You don't need any more tactics and tricks.

      Now regarding the filters- I would love to work with Mr. Gates on his next marketing project, but I can't do that. So what do I do? I look at the choices and offers I have- And say Yes to the one I am most interested in. Simple. Right?

      If I have a page that says I charge $2997/copy, then most sane folks around won't expect me to bend over and accept $997 for it.

      And yes, don't be too sure of what you think about mentors charge. People want mentors, but they aren't asking.

      -Lakshay
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  • Profile picture of the author ecoverartist
    That's the way I feel too - within reason. I'm sure there are people out there who pay 10,000 for their copywriting and expect a 100% conversion rate.
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    • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
      Offline - focus on business problems you CAN solve with your skills.

      How can you HELP the people in your local area? I am assuming you
      enjoy and like people in your area, respect and understand their
      values. You cannot empathize if you don't respect them.

      Can you help a local mechanic launch an info-product about
      car maintenance? I'll bet you could. You just need to find
      the guy that wants more lifestyle freedom than he's got now -
      the hunger to diversify and grow.

      Don't assume that guys that work on cars and animals don't have
      ideas and inventions and things they've come up with. Lots of
      these people are very clever. They don't know how to market
      a product - which is where you can help them.

      This is not about going after the big bucks (that's not my attitude
      anyway) - it's about building relationships and finding creative
      ways to help the people around you grow. You learn a lot from
      getting to know people this way because it gets you out of the
      tunnel-vision of internet marketing and info-products... you start
      to see the world of mad passions and creative energy all around
      you.

      Of course you CAN just focus on the internet, but I suggest you
      may just want that because you are comfortable with it.

      In general I've seen the greatest growth when I get out of my
      comfort-zone. There's no magic to it, you just expand your
      capacity when you do it.
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  • Profile picture of the author ecoverartist
    Good points guys... and you're right Kyle, I really do like the online aspect of it all. And I totally respect anyone who works on cars or dead animals because I won't touch either of them with a 10 foot pole

    For those of you involved in direct mail and offline sales -- how did you get your start?
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    • Profile picture of the author jmarketer
      Offline marketing for a copywriter is where the real money is right now. A lot of newbies are entering the scene and everything is just based a lot on price right now. Most blame it on the economy, but I seriously doubt that once the economy gets back on its feet that people who have gotten used to paying for cheap copy, design, etc., will want to start paying more because the economy is back.

      Target some offline businesses in your area and you'll more than likely get 2 or 3 times more money for your skill.
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  • Profile picture of the author Keeslover
    I started by offering one press release and a monthly newsletter to our doggie daycare in exchange for free daycare and boarding. Writing the newsletter is fun, and the dogs are thrilled they get to go play more often. In fact, thinking of licensing the newsletter.
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