Traditional copywriter VS digital copywriter?

by G12863
23 replies
I didn't realize there was a difference until I found out there were actually schools for copywriting! Like the Creative Circus, the Miami Ad School, the Brandcenter, etc. I think those schools teach you how to write traditional advertising like print, radio, etc. and the work is more creative. With digital copywriting, is that SEO and banner ads? I'm not sure I completely understand the difference. Is there a difference in salary as well?
#copywriter #digital #traditional
  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    Think of sales copy as falling into two broad categories...

    1. Direct response (includes a call-to-action and results can be measured)
    2. Brand awareness (a/k/a image advertising)

    Think of the many places that ads are shown as channels. Typical channels include...

    1. Mail
    2. Newspapers and magazines
    3. TV and radio
    4. The internet (a/k/a digital)
    >> a. Sales letters
    >> b. Pay-per-click ads
    >> c. Banner ads

    And there are two types of copywriters...

    1. Employees
    2. Freelancers

    It's common for an individual to specialize in one category/channel/copywriter type combination. "Salaries" vary wildly.

    Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
    Originally Posted by G12863 View Post

    I didn't realize there was a difference until I found out there were actually schools for copywriting! Like the Creative Circus, the Miami Ad School, the Brandcenter, etc. I think those schools teach you how to write traditional advertising like print, radio, etc. and the work is more creative. With digital copywriting, is that SEO and banner ads? I'm not sure I completely understand the difference. Is there a difference in salary as well?
    The fact that they're creating two separate categories in a University doesn't mean there is a difference. It just means they're trying to create programs which sound more specialized and sophisticated.

    It might also interest you to know that almost none of the great copywriters ever went to school for it, and many of them think it's a joke. Copywriting is more about selling than it is about writing, and I doubt university students spend ANY time testing their copy in the real world.

    The only real difference between the two types is media.

    If you want to know what digital media includes, just look at the ads you see online. Those were written by a copywriter. Blogs and articles on websites on the other hand, are considered content. Although for many years, there was no difference, it was all called copywriting. Most of the people on this forum don't know that, but that's where it started.

    While digital media has changed the way people consume information, this doesn't mean you need to learn two different skill sets. It also doesn't mean you should be paid more for one than you are for the other. The idea that you should is based on a misunderstanding about what a copywriter's real job is: to earn money by making sales.

    Writers who can do that, pretty much set their own rates. Those who can't, struggle. That's how it works. There are no "salaries" for copywriters, unless you work for an agency, which only makes sense if you're making more than you can make on your own. If that's the case, you're probably not very good.

    I'm assuming you're asking because you're interested in trying out the craft?

    If so, you have two choices. You can scratch and claw your way through the millions of so-called writers who are only searching for online jobs, or you can do what I started doing about 7 years ago: use the internet as a research and connecting tool, and find your clients using offline strategies like direct mail, speaking and networking.

    The difference in earnings isn't even comparable. I make 10 times what I used to back when I searched for clients online, and I write for a variety of media - online and offline.

    I also suggest looking for real clients. That is, people who own a real, profitable businesses. Stay away from Network Marketers, Information Marketers and Internet Marketers. While there are a few gems in those niches, but most of them are broke and clueless.

    If you're good at writing stuff that makes money and you invest your time pursuing worthwhile clients, you'll be glad you didn't waste your time and money sitting in a classroom listening to professors who have probably never sold a damn thing in their lives.
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    • Profile picture of the author splitTest
      Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

      If you're good at writing stuff that makes money and you invest your time pursuing worthwhile clients, you'll be glad you didn't waste your time and money sitting in a classroom listening to professors who have probably never sold a damn thing in their lives.
      I took a course in copywriting as part of curricula earning my BA. In retrospect, it was ALL bullshit. NOTHING to learn. No textbooks to buy. No real assignments. No mention of the greats. No review of great ads.

      Reputable school, but the copywriting course was exactly NOTHING. In leading that course, the professor had a real scam going... In fact, one of the few things I recall about the course was the guy asked all his students to submit their best ideas for new products... I can't help but think this was just his scheme to pick the minds of bright young kids for products he might make his own...
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      • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
        Originally Posted by splitTest View Post

        I took a course in copywriting as part of curricula earning my BA. In retrospect, it was ALL bullshit. NOTHING to learn. No textbooks to buy. No real assignments. No mention of the greats. No review of great ads.
        I echo this sentiment - when young writers ask me for advice on learning their craft, I tend to reply with the all-too-frustrating adage that writers WRITE.

        OP: If you want to be a serious copywriter, you'll learn more in 4 months of on-the-job training than you will in 4 years of school. School is an entirely different environment that doesn't have the life-or-death immediacy of real-world sales.

        Seriously - are you going to miss your mortgage payment if you fail that test? Are you going to go hungry?

        And there's the added complication that most school programs will teach you about shit that doesn't matter. Meaning, you're going to have to unlearn a lot of things that school teaches you in order to be successful. In the real world, grammatically correct doesn't matter. Talking like your prospects talk does. Typos won't kill your entire business. Wrong positioning can.

        What's really important here? And is school going to teach you that? Or is a battle-hardened vet or trial-and-error a better option?

        Another perspective from someone who regularly straddles the bridge at the intersection of everything you talk about:

        I'm a corporate copywriter. I've been in pure e-commerce before, and now I work for a brick-and-mortar company. I've written long form, short form, internal communications, external/press communications, digital banners, print banners, direct mail, and so much more.

        Once upon a time, I met with an amazing creative director who told me exactly what I'd need to get a job as a copywriter - go to portfolio school she said. I adored her, but I ignored everything she said and followed my gut and still managed to get a job without the extra schooling.

        The skills are the skills are the skills. What changes are the messaging/hierarchy and how clear things are in the space you have in front of the people you're talking to.
        Signature

        Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

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  • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
    Originally Posted by G12863 View Post

    I didn't realize there was a difference until I found out there were actually schools for copywriting! Like the Creative Circus, the Miami Ad School, the Brandcenter, etc. I think those schools teach you how to write traditional advertising like print, radio, etc. and the work is more creative. With digital copywriting, is that SEO and banner ads? I'm not sure I completely understand the difference. Is there a difference in salary as well?
    You should write the type of copy you want to write. Any difference in "salary" won't matter if you're doing what you like vs. doing what you hate.

    In any case, why are you intent on working for the man?
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Funny thing is, recently I got called in the side door to help sell a
      American University MBA program to students.

      They weren't bright enough to sell it,
      despite them teaching marketing.

      I wasn't bright enough for University.

      I tended livestock and fruit trees as soon as I was legally able to leave school
      for about 20 years.

      Rather ironic, don't you think?

      Best,
      Doctor E. Vile
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      • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        Funny thing is, recently I got called in the side door to help sell a
        American University MBA program to students.

        They weren't bright enough to sell it,
        despite them teaching marketing.
        Needed to ask for help marketing their course on marketing.

        Hilarious

        Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

        He's insinuating that you should freelance instead of work for a company.

        Yes, it's presumptuous.

        Alex
        It's not presumptuous.

        The OP used the word "Salary."

        That's what a company pays you when you work for them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
          Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

          It's not presumptuous.

          The OP used the word "Salary."

          That's what a company pays you when you work for them.
          Sure it is... it's presumptuous to tell another person what they should or shouldn't do without having complete information about that person and their circumstances.

          Alex
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          • Profile picture of the author sethczerepak
            Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

            Sure it is... it's presumptuous to tell another person what they should or shouldn't do without having complete information about that person and their circumstances.

            Alex
            Hell, in that case, I guess everyone who gives advice on this site is being presumptuous.

            I'd write a longer response, but I think I'd rather rearrange my sock drawer.
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            • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
              Originally Posted by sethczerepak View Post

              Hell, in that case, I guess everyone who gives advice on this site is being presumptuous.
              The advice referenced was unsolicited personal advice.

              Alex
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              • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
                Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

                The advice referenced was unsolicited personal advice.

                Alex
                Not such a bad thing... I think it's important for a budding Copywriter to know the difference between both and make an informed decision.

                In any case, we should probably let it go at this point...
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    • Profile picture of the author G12863
      Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

      You should write the type of copy you want to write. Any difference in "salary" won't matter if you're doing what you like vs. doing what you hate.

      In any case, why are you intent on working for the man?
      what do you mean by that?
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      • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
        Originally Posted by G12863 View Post

        what do you mean by that?
        Which part are you confused about?
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        • Profile picture of the author G12863
          Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

          Which part are you confused about?
          You asked why am I intent on working for the man? I'm not sure what about my post made you say that?
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          • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
            He's insinuating that you should freelance instead of work for a company.

            Yes, it's presumptuous.

            Alex
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            • Profile picture of the author Cam Connor
              Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

              He's insinuating that you should freelance instead of work for a company.

              Yes, it's presumptuous.

              Alex
              Yes, and yes.

              I'm a presumptuous jerk, Alex, what can I say?

              lol

              Seriously though, freelancing's way better, but if you want to get a steady salary, go for it. It's a hell of a lot easier in the beginning, I can tell you that much. haha
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              • Profile picture of the author colmodwyer
                Originally Posted by Cam Connor View Post

                Seriously though, freelancing's way better, but if you want to get a steady salary, go for it. It's a hell of a lot easier in the beginning, I can tell you that much. haha
                Each to their own... I started as a freelancer and now work in-house for a financial publisher. I much prefer the latter because I essentially have one steady "client" I know and work with extremely well.

                I don't have to waste time putting up a website, marketing, prospecting at conferences, dealing with new clients that suck, chasing payments, contracts, etc...

                I JUST write copy.

                I have all the freedoms of a freelancer too... I work from home mostly (TMI ALERT: It's about 2:00PM right now and I still haven't showered!), I could even travel the world with my trusty laptop if I wanted, and I've never had any issues taking vacation time.

                In a way, I'm much freer than most freelancers.

                Oh, and my salary is far from steady... I can double, triple, even quadruple it with royalties!

                I am glad I have experience freelancing, it's definitely been helpful... but I don't see myself ever returning to those trenches, unless something radically changes in my current situation.

                Colm
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                • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
                  Sort of a hybrid...

                  My last contract paid 6k a month for nine months, for about 25% of my time, and there was commission work as well as for hire stuff too.

                  The 6k was guaranteed during the contract, the commissions were negotiated on a project basis, some taking less against the "draw" if I chose.

                  I know several EMPLOYED copywriters who have more free time and a lot more money than most freelancers. One woman worked 3 days a week, about 40 per year and made over 750,000 bux, and she was an employee.

                  So, it's what suits you and what people who hire you know.

                  My opinion is, whatever suits you but one size does not suit all.

                  gjabiz

                  PS. Add in benefits; health, dental, insurance, matching funds on retirement, gym memberships, country club memberships, maternity leave, sick time, autos, etc., and most freelancers would have to almost double their gross to match this, and they would have a lot less free time to enjoy the perks too.




                  Originally Posted by colmodwyer View Post

                  Each to their own... I started as a freelancer and now work in-house for a financial publisher. I much prefer the latter because I essentially have one steady "client" I know and work with extremely well.

                  I don't have to waste time putting up a website, marketing, prospecting at conferences, dealing with new clients that suck, chasing payments, contracts, etc...

                  I JUST write copy.

                  I have all the freedoms of a freelancer too... I work from home mostly (TMI ALERT: It's about 2:00PM right now and I still haven't showered!), I could even travel the world with my trusty laptop if I wanted, and I've never had any issues taking vacation time.

                  In a way, I'm much freer than most freelancers.

                  Oh, and my salary is far from steady... I can double, triple, even quadruple it with royalties!

                  I am glad I have experience freelancing, it's definitely been helpful... but I don't see myself ever returning to those trenches, unless something radically changes in my current situation.

                  Colm
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  • Profile picture of the author G12863
    Okay, I have a confession to make. I currently go to one of those portfolio schools. I was against it at first but I looked at where I was in life: 27 y/o, no real skills to do anything else, really unhappy with my job at the time, couldn't get work anywhere else... so I thought if I went back to school, I could just focus on getting the skills and I wouldn't have a hard time finding a job.

    I was skeptical I would learn anything after the first 5 weeks. I wanted to drop out after the first semester but I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't think I was confident or motivated enough to do this on my own. After the second semester, I'm getting a better grip of school and have intentions of returning next year. A lot of the learning is really done on your own and for that, honestly, it is very overpriced. I have a teacher in my hometown who is a freelance copywriter. He never went to portfolio school. He said he would mentor me if I really want to but recommend I stay in school.

    I find it really strange how there seems to be a huge connect between the copywriters in this forum and the ones I know from my school.

    I do have intentions of returning but that's another 20K of debt. I'm doing an internship at an agency this summer and plan on freelancing some time in my career. I just want to make a smart decision on what I should do. I know you don't have to go to school to do this but the only reason I'm there is because I know I'm not self motivated enough to do this on my own.
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    If I were you, I'd find inspiration in this:

    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Pescetti
    Writing for different mediums may require different mindsets, like writing a 30 second radio spot vs. a long form VSL, but copy is copy; you're connecting with emotion through circumstance, insights and information.

    In this, the age of the funnel, being able to adopt and adapt to different styles is important... both in terms of copy AND content.

    Mark
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    Do you want a 9 figure copywriter and biz owner to Write With You? I'll work with you, on zoom, to help write your copy or client copy... while you learn from one of the few copywriters to legit hit 9 figures in gross sales! Discover More

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  • The original question splits hairs on a boar.

    Think of it this way...

    Noh theatre differs from Lady Gaga striking out in horror spandex in almost infinitely listable ways, but both of these performance genres are united by the need to marry on up their form to the expectations of the audience (and vice versa).

    The Noh informs the audience, the audience gives life to the Noh.

    (Don't get me started on Gaga. That girl is trash — but I'm sure you can play along with the analogy as I writhe between the parentheses of ABSENT EXAMPLE II.)

    So, sure there are differences between trad and digit — formsy stuff that spins off like a Debian vs Fedora vs Ubuntu — but right there at the core is the main deal of articulating what tongue tips would if they could.

    Ah, but so it goes with Gaga.

    Fling on some zany hot pants and you're licking up guy bucks.
    Signature

    Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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  • Profile picture of the author Sean DeSilva
    Direct sales fundamentals do not change because the nature of people does not change. That said, each medium has its own particularities.

    Online is more attention deficit and receives less implied credibility. A print advertorial can be very successful with a 50/50 information/sales split, whereas online you'd want to go 75/25, or even softer.
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