Have you ever written for the XXX market?

by Raydal
14 replies
Not everyone might agree, but if you are a copywriter that
is worth your salt you should be able to write for any market,
given the proper research material to work with. All those
great copywriters of the past wrote for so many different
markets and products using the same principles of selling.

So when a prospect wants to qualify me or hem me in by
asking if I ever wrote for such and such a market, I find
this strange. Of course, there is nothing wrong with specializing,
but even so it doesn't handicap you from writing to sell
anything that is sellable.

-Ray Edwards
#market #written
  • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
    At first I thought you were asking if people wrote for the adult market?

    Anyway..you got the click from your headline.

    Interestingly I was just studying a market where up to 30% of young women in the US state they have had a virgin birth.

    Parthenogenesis

    Anyways...

    digging deeper the statistics were slightly...well more than slightly skewed because the women in question had pledged chastity and in many cases there was a breakdown in communication from parents...etc that caused such a response.

    Turns out however....

    That there are species that are eliminating males from the population and reproducing only female offspring.

    These are mostly reptiles but there is correlation between reptile, fish and birds.

    Often the skew towards females is due to a rise in temperature.

    Downside is that there are parasites that prey on the skewed female populations and the diversity of genes that are provided by males in any population helps eliminate this parasitic adaption to attacking basically a cloned individual.

    it seemed that about 10 generations of female cloned reproduction was the limit before extinction.

    Now I bet you didn't expect that response to a copywriting question regarding taking on a job.
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      So when a prospect wants to qualify me or hem me in by
      asking if I ever wrote for such and such a market, I find
      this strange.
      Ray,

      From the customer's point of view, this isn't strange at all. They want to know, are you familiar with my target market? Do you know about rules and regulations regarding what's permissible in advertising in my market? Do you know the terminology in my industry? Do you know the typical motivations buyers have in my market?

      If you have written a lot for a particular industry, you normally know all that and have a huge running head start.

      I do agree with you that given enough research, you can write for just about any market. However, not every client wants to pay for you to get up to speed on their basics.

      Marcia Yudkin
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      You lose your bet. I fully expected your answer. Honest. Cross my heart and wish to die too.

      Lovely answer. Perfect.

      Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

      At first I thought you were asking if people wrote for the adult market?

      Anyway..you got the click from your headline.

      Interestingly I was just studying a market where up to 30% of young women in the US state they have had a virgin birth.

      Parthenogenesis

      Anyways...

      digging deeper the statistics were slightly...well more than slightly skewed because the women in question had pledged chastity and in many cases there was a breakdown in communication from parents...etc that caused such a response.

      Turns out however....

      That there are species that are eliminating males from the population and reproducing only female offspring.

      These are mostly reptiles but there is correlation between reptile, fish and birds.

      Often the skew towards females is due to a rise in temperature.

      Downside is that there are parasites that prey on the skewed female populations and the diversity of genes that are provided by males in any population helps eliminate this parasitic adaption to attacking basically a cloned individual.

      it seemed that about 10 generations of female cloned reproduction was the limit before extinction.

      Now I bet you didn't expect that response to a copywriting question regarding taking on a job.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10395512].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author splitTest
      Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

      At first I thought you were asking if people wrote for the adult market?

      Anyway..you got the click from your headline.

      Interestingly I was just studying a market where up to 30% of young women in the US state they have had a virgin birth.

      Parthenogenesis

      Anyways...

      digging deeper the statistics were slightly...well more than slightly skewed because the women in question had pledged chastity and in many cases there was a breakdown in communication from parents...etc that caused such a response.

      Turns out however....

      That there are species that are eliminating males from the population and reproducing only female offspring.

      These are mostly reptiles but there is correlation between reptile, fish and birds.

      Often the skew towards females is due to a rise in temperature.

      Downside is that there are parasites that prey on the skewed female populations and the diversity of genes that are provided by males in any population helps eliminate this parasitic adaption to attacking basically a cloned individual.

      it seemed that about 10 generations of female cloned reproduction was the limit before extinction.

      Now I bet you didn't expect that response to a copywriting question regarding taking on a job.
      Don't forget the various species that birth only females, but then the dominant individual transforms into a male to mate with all the females. If he's knocked off, another dom becomes male...

      Females siring kids is actually within the realm of possibility for even humans at this point, with advances in stem cell manipulation... So ye males better watch your step! Between dildos and stem cells, you could become extraneous and obsolete!
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  • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
    What happens in the real world...

    Sure, a good copywriter could write for any markets, but as Marcia stated, the client wants to know if you know his market.

    As for research, doesn't it make more sense to cut that time down, the learning curve, to next to nothing by having already researched the market?

    My experiences, which may not be typical, was, they called me. I seldom sought work. Once you write a few winners, they do find you.

    So, generalists can write for anything, but, it seems specialists never have to seek new clients, but that could be an abnormal experience.

    I don't see why it would be a problem to answer the question, especially during the vetting process, seize it as an opportunity to sell yourself and with a good command of the language, use your persuasion skills to sell the client on why it would be better to hire you (fresh) over someone experienced (same old same old).

    gjabiz



    Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

    Not everyone might agree, but if you are a copywriter that
    is worth your salt you should be able to write for any market,
    given the proper research material to work with. All those
    great copywriters of the past wrote for so many different
    markets and products using the same principles of selling.

    So when a prospect wants to qualify me or hem me in by
    asking if I ever wrote for such and such a market, I find
    this strange. Of course, there is nothing wrong with specializing,
    but even so it doesn't handicap you from writing to sell
    anything that is sellable.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Tellya, if the XXX market needs filth, I'll pen it.

      Meanwhile, if I ever need advice about eliminatin' males from the population, reptile or otherwise, gonna hit on Ozi.
      Signature

      Lightin' fuses is for blowin' stuff togethah.

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      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

        At first I thought you were asking if people wrote for the adult market?

        Anyway..you got the click from your headline.
        "XXX" means "fill in the blank". Maybe I should have added another "X"?

        Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

        Ray,

        From the customer's point of view, this isn't strange at all. They want to know, are you familiar with my target market? Do you know about rules and regulations regarding what's permissible in advertising in my market? Do you know the terminology in my industry? Do you know the typical motivations buyers have in my market?
        For sure I can understand their need to know, but it doesn't make it any
        easier for me to rationalize.

        Sometimes a potential client wants to know not only if you ever
        wrote for the niche but for the exact product or service like theirs.

        Prospects do come with their own ideas and even when they are
        wrong you have to use gentle persuasion to get them facing the
        right direction (not an ideal situation).

        -Ray Edwards
        Signature
        The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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        • Profile picture of the author angiecolee
          Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

          "XXX" means "fill in the blank". Maybe I should have added another "X"?
          LOL to be fair, that's exactly how I interpreted too - that someone had asked you and/or you were curious about writing for the adult (read: porn/sex) industry. I was surprised to see that coming from you.
          Signature

          Aspiring copywriters: if you need 1:1 advice from an experienced copy chief, head over to my Phone a Friend page.

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          • Profile picture of the author Raydal
            Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

            I was surprised to see that coming from you.
            What a sweet thing to say Angie! Thanks so much.

            -Ray Edwards
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            The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Ray,

    Do you truly go through SWOT analysis, offer analysis, customer personas, gathering pain points and objections, acquiring the voice of the customer, competitive analysis, analysis of market sophistication etc. etc. etc.? For every market you enter?

    Where's the leverage in doing so?

    If you're not familiar with a market, you're operating at AN EXTREME DISADVANTAGE compared to a competitor who is intimate with the market. Enough you should feel a little more than intimidated taking the project on. As one of my colleagues says, you're bringing a knife to a gunfight.

    I believe copywriting as a profession is far more than clear writing and persuasion.

    Intimate understanding of the market (or spending the requisite time and money to acquire that understanding) is one of the things that what separates winners from losers today.

    Make no mistake. Without such knowledge, you're at a severe disadvantage.

    - Rick Duris

    PS: The alternative of course, is cobbling a bunch of swipes together from previously successful promotions.

    But we all know what that'll get you.
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      If you're not familiar with a market, you're operating at AN EXTREME DISADVANTAGE compared to a competitor who is intimate with the market. [snip]

      Make no mistake. Without such knowledge, you're at a severe disadvantage.
      Rick,

      I agree with most of what you wrote. However, for many of the B2B copywriting projects I have taken on, there are few or no copywriters specializing in those markets. (For instance, trustee insurance, project management software, auto parts recycling, foreign language instruction.)

      In such cases, being able to ask the right questions and get knowledge of the market from the client's head into yours are the keys to success. If that's in your skill set, there is no disadvantage in not knowing anything about the market.

      Marcia Yudkin
      Signature
      Check out Marcia Yudkin's No-Hype Marketing Academy for courses on copywriting, publicity, infomarketing, marketing plans, naming, and branding - not to mention the popular "Marketing for Introverts" course.
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      • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
        Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

        Rick,

        I agree with most of what you wrote. However, for many of the B2B copywriting projects I have taken on, there are few or no copywriters specializing in those markets. (For instance, trustee insurance, project management software, auto parts recycling, foreign language instruction.)

        In such cases, being able to ask the right questions and get knowledge of the market from the client's head into yours are the keys to success. If that's in your skill set, there is no disadvantage in not knowing anything about the market.

        Marcia Yudkin
        I agree.

        If you have little/no competition and the client will give you what essentially amounts to "on the job training" to acquire that knowledge, the client has little choice, do they?

        But compared to someone who already is not just familiar with the market, but intimate with it, they'd get the job done faster, they'd do a far better job and the client would pay less.

        PS: "In such cases, being able to ask the right questions and get knowledge of the market from the client's head into yours are the keys to success."

        The Client is usually wrong. Even if they're a copywriter. They can't see the forest from the trees. They have harbor hidden ignorance and bias.

        I'm sure you've heard the term "fresh eyes".

        In the case you just described, you'd be far better off doing a customer survey.
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    • Profile picture of the author Raydal
      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      Ray,

      Do you truly go through SWOT analysis, offer analysis, customer personas, gathering pain points and objections, acquiring the voice of the customer, competitive analysis, analysis of market sophistication etc. etc. etc.? For every market you enter?
      I agree fully. But as a copywriter you know that you need that information
      and to research it. So even though it may not be PRACTICAL to spread
      yourself so thin, it is not IMPOSSIBLE.

      For example, I didn't know what "SWOT analysis" was, but now I know, because
      I researched it. So I CAN write for any marketing with the proper research.
      But "will I?" is another question.

      One of the points of Sugarman's book is that he wrote a sales letter to even
      sell a plane! The principles apply although the product is different.

      -Ray Edwards
      Signature
      The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
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      • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
        Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

        I agree fully. But as a copywriter you know that you need that information
        and to research it. So even though it may not be PRACTICAL to spread
        yourself so thin, it is not IMPOSSIBLE.

        For example, I didn't know what "SWOT analysis" was, but now I know, because
        I researched it. So I CAN write for any marketing with the proper research.
        But "will I?" is another question.

        One of the points of Sugarman's book is that he wrote a sales letter to even
        sell a plane! The principles apply although the product is different.

        -Ray Edwards
        No one said it's impossible. I'm saying it's competitively impractical to do a great job at a cost effective price.

        Selling "A" plane to me is no big deal. Selling a fleet of planes in a competitive market is a very big deal.

        But that's just an opinion.

        PS: Just as a point of clarification: Copywriting is more than just writing what the Client wants to hear.

        For me, and I may be alone in thinking this, copywriting is a competitive sport.
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