People buy into hype and B.S

Alexa Smith

Banned 15 years ago

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Matthew Iannotti 15 years ago

Originally Posted by alexa_s

Do you think it's a peculiarity of "Americans" in particular, then?

I'm American and would have to say yes.
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nontemplates

15 years ago

False choice. Doesn't habve to be BS or laid back.

When you sell the sizzle, tenderness and taste of a steak it actually exists. Its not BS. Some "hype" is real not manufactured and the job of a good copywriter is to find that real hype and sell it.

And no Americans do not like to buy BS. They might like to read it but if they buy it and see its BS your merchant account will hear about it.

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Collette

15 years ago

Originally Posted by EfitnessNYC

Morning all,

...I think the sales copy that succeeds are often kind that serve a good amount of B.S and it works because that what people want!

When you say "it works", do you mean:

a) People buy the product and are satisfied with their purchase?

b) They tell their friends to buy the product? They don't ask for a refund, or complain to the BBB, or on Internet boards, or to their friends, that they got ripped off?

c) They come back to you and buy more from you?

d) All of the above?

e) None of the above?

How many sales letters convert well that take a more laid-back approach with little to no hype?

Millions of dollars worth of products and services are sold every single day without hype. Assuming that we are using your definition of "Hype = Bulls**t". Believe it or not, some of those products and services are in the fitness market.

If your copy is making claims you cannot substantiate or deliver, then you're a hype merchant. If your copy is making amazing claims that you can substantiate and deliver - then you've got powerful copy.

Hacks write "hype". Pros write "powerful copy".

One helps increase sales, create satisfied and loyal customers, and build your business into a long-term, sustainable stream of revenue.

The other doesn't.

Can you guess which is which?

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Intrepreneur 15 years ago

"americans" why Americans.. did you split test this or something? :rolleyes:
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- Matthew Iannotti 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Intrepreneur
  
  "americans" why Americans.. did you split test this or something? :rolleyes:
  
  No split testing or trial studies, ever watch George Carlin?
  
  He does a very good act on this..
  
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Matthew Iannotti

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Collette

When you say "it works", do you mean:

a) People buy the product and are satisfied with their purchase?

b) They tell their friends to buy the product? They don't ask for a refund, or complain to the BBB, or on Internet boards, or to their friends, that they got ripped off?

c) They come back to you and buy more from you?

d) All of the above?

e) None of the above?

Millions of dollars worth of products and services are sold every single day without hype. Assuming that we are using your definition of "Hype = Bulls**t". Believe it or not, some of those products and services are in the fitness market.

If your copy is making claims you cannot substantiate or deliver, then you're a hype merchant. If your copy is making amazing claims that you can substantiate and deliver - then you've got powerful copy.

Hacks write "hype". Pros write "powerful copy".

One helps increase sales, create satisfied and loyal customers, and build your business into a long-term, sustainable stream of revenue.

The other doesn't.

Can you guess which is which?

Hey I agree with you 100%...

I'm not disputing that at all.....But it doesn't mean we are right.

Why did everyone love Bill Clinton? We knew he was full of sh**..But at least he was honest about it....

As far as business goes, sometimes you have to cater to someones ego and perhaps lie to them just to be in agreement. For example, if you wanted to sell someone product X because it was of higher value and benefit but they thought product Y was better, you better just sell them product Y, other wise they may go else where to buy it. I've seen it everyday...

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MontelloMarketing

15 years ago

I think it's a crap theory.

Sorry...

I've lived in 5 states... traveled extensively to 6 countries and the plain old truth is...

No matter where you are, the general population wants to believe hype.

I was in the philippines a few years ago. There was an infomercial on tv one night. Shot in Japanese, dubbed in english and with 2 other asian languages subtitled on the screen at the same time. So we're talking a minimum of 4 cultures for one infomercial.

What were they selling? Pills that make you tall!

I sh-t you not! Pills that make adults grow a couple inches.

Now we all know that's crap. There's no such pill unless that pill is 2 inches in height and you stand on it!

The pill was snake oil. Just like the snake oil salesmen who sold in the old west... and in the 1700's in the eastern US... and in the 1500s and 1400s in England and Europe.

This is a worldwide thing. Hype sells to the masses.

So the idea that americans are any different than anywhere else when it comes to being consumers, that's bunk.

That said...

Just because people love the bally... love the pitch... and are taken in by the hard sell, that has nothing at all to do with lying and selling crap. Two different issues. Land in the midwest was once sold with a lot of hype and hullabaloo. Were those deals ripoffs? Hell no. But they were deals that needed a little push.

And it's not just land. The original cars were sold on hype. The first electric cars sold on hype.

I'm of course using the oft used definition of hype which is puffery, excitement and bold claims. That is not the true definition of hype as I learned it. That is merely a form of "big salesmanship."

Hype really is any advertising that makes an unproven claim. And that I'm completely against in most cases.

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Matthew Iannotti

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing

I think it's a crap theory.

Sorry...

I've lived in 5 states... traveled extensively to 6 countries and the plain old truth is...

No matter where you are, the general population wants to believe hype.

I was in the philippines a few years ago. There was an infomercial on tv one night. Shot in Japanese, dubbed in english and with 2 other asian languages subtitled on the screen at the same time. So we're talking a minimum of 4 cultures for one infomercial.

What were they selling? Pills that make you tall!

I sh-t you not! Pills that make adults grow a couple inches.

Now we all know that's crap. There's no such pill unless that pill is 2 inches in height and you stand on it!

The pill was snake oil. Just like the snake oil salesmen who sold in the old west... and in the 1700's in the eastern US... and in the 1500s and 1400s in England and Europe.

This is a worldwide thing. Hype sells to the masses.

So the idea that americans are any different than anywhere else when it comes to being consumers, that's bunk.

That said...

Just because people love the bally... love the pitch... and are taken in by the hard sell, that has nothing at all to do with lying and selling crap. Two different issues. Land in the midwest was once sold with a lot of hype and hullabaloo. Were those deals ripoffs? Hell no. But they were deals that needed a little push.

And it's not just land. The original cars were sold on hype. The first electric cars sold on hype.

You're right there, not just Americans...People in general......

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SamKane

15 years ago

It depends on the audience.

If your targeting TV viewers, you need to dumb down your message.
On the internet people are actively looking for your stuff, so hype doesn't work as well.

Also remember just because you see advertisements that are full of hype, does not mean they are making
any sales.

You are right that people in general, not just Americans, don't like to think for themselves.

You should see some of the stuff that's sold around the world. Everything from "magic" coins that ward of
Evil spirits to governments that rule your life.

Americans aren't the only ones refusing to think.

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MontelloMarketing

15 years ago

Originally Posted by SamKane

It depends on the audience.

If your targeting TV viewers, you need to dumb down your message.
On the internet people are actively looking for your stuff, so hype doesn't work as well.

Actually not true. Advertising to an internet crowd is pretty much written at the same dumb level as tv.

Also remember just because you see advertisements that are full of hype, does not mean they are making any sales.

If you see them for more than a week or two, you can bet your ass they're making sales. TV is way too expensive to keep running loser campaigns. Hell, even magazine, newspaper and other ads. More so offline than online... they have to be making money or they're tossed away.

Americans aren't the only ones refusing to think.

I think you're looking at this entirely the wrong way. It's not about them REFUSING to think. It's about us not FORCING THEM to think just to buy what we're selling. If they're going to be nice enough to open their wallets and hand you their money, you should at least be nice enough to make it easy for them. And doing a lot of thinking just ain't easy.

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happyface

15 years ago

I believe you want to say human likes to buy hyped up products no matter it's real hype or manufactured hype. Even president election is kind of hyped product if you check how much hope has been given.

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CDarklock

15 years ago

People buy based on emotion, not reason.

If you can stir enough emotion, it doesn't matter whether it's reasonable.

There are two ways to do this. If you have a product no reasonable person would buy, you can just get people excited enough about it and they'll buy anyway.

Or, on the other hand, you can get people excited about things that are actually reasonable to expect from your product - and it's not BS at all.

There are two problems that lead into Carlin's observation that the world is stunningly full of BS.

First, a lot of products really are not something any reasonable person would buy, but it's what you've got and you have to sell it. So you hype it.

Second, a lot of people simply don't know how to get anyone excited about certain products. So there's no hype generated around the really useful stuff, like (say) a folding chair. Folding chairs are awesome. You can do a lot with folding chairs. But if you take it to an advertising agency, they'll go "WTF, it's a folding chair" and they just throw a bunch of BS out there.

YouTube - String

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keystothemind

15 years ago

I reckon this is true for all people.
In the field of hypnosis the best selling digital product of all time was Igor Ledochowski's the power of conversational hypnosis.
The hype on the sales page is really rather silly and extreme, however it just keeps selling!
The sales page:
Affiliate Link
Non Affiliate Link

I posted a discussion of hype versus the reality on my blog (link in signature) which people interested in the course may want to check out.

Igor (who i do know and trust) says that he feels the hype is ok provided 1: he over delivers, and 2: he always tells the truth.

I wonder why it is though that we do tend to buy into hype, maybe it is because we are so desperate to believe that what we read is true we suspend our disbelief?

Cheers, and thanks for a great discussion!
Nathan

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DavidO

15 years ago

In your OP you ask a specific question that nobody has answered yet:

"How many sales letters convert well that take a more laid-back approach with little to no hype?"

I have a specific answer: At least one... mine!

My conversion increased substantially after I removed everything smelling of hype from my copy. I even went beyond that and warned my visitors that my product will not work for everyone.

I sell a high blood pressure remedy. This is a field ripe for exploitation and most of my competition uses extreme hype and scare tactics. So by avoiding these tactics and talking to my visitors with the voice of reason and presenting realistic prospects I gain credibility (probably the most important thing you can earn). You'll never get this with hype.

Straight-talking also makes me different, the one that stands out, and this too is something that no amount of hype can create. With hype you just sound like all the others.

My copy is far from perfect and I'm constantly seeking ways to improve it and increase conversion. But at least I know what not to use and that's hype.

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MikeHumphreys

15 years ago

People buy on emotion and then justify the purchase afterwards with logic. That's why good copy uses both emotion and logic.

As Vin said, hype is merely unsupported claims.

Case in point: Any copywriter can say they have written a sales letter that has produced six-figures for a client. A wise copywriter uses client testimonials, particularly with details like sales made or conversion rates, to back their claim of writing a very successful sales letter.

It's not hype if you can prove it.

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nontemplates

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

Case in point: Any copywriter can say they have written a sales letter that has produced six-figures for a client. A wise copywriter uses client testimonials, particularly with details like sales made or conversion rates, to back their claim of writing a very successful sales letter.

It's not hype if you can prove it.

Ummm. The client testimonial complete with sales and conversion rates can be the hype written and/or paid for by the copywriter. Unless the client is very well known and you are able to directly contact that client it can be just as much hype and BS as anything else.

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MikeHumphreys

15 years ago

Originally Posted by nontemplates

Ummm. The client testimonial complete with sales and conversion rates can be the hype written and/or paid for by the copywriter. Unless the client is very well known and you are able to directly contact that client it can be just as much hype and BS as anything else.

Making up testimonials will quickly get you in hot water with the FTC, landing you either in jail or hit with massive fines. The same is true for the rest of the sales letter that a copywriter writes.

In fact, anyone who is involved with selling a fraudlent product is fair game for the FTC to go after: from the web designer all the way to the hosting company. Granted, everyone varies on the amount of legal risk that they are facing... but the copywriter of a sales letter that is ripping the general public off is going to be in almost as much hot water as the product seller.

In 3+ years in the copywriting industry, I've never heard of a copywriter ever paying a client for a testimonial. Every one of my testimonials is backed by the actual client/other marketing professional's email with the time/date stamp on them that I have saved in more than one place. Most wise copywriters do the same.

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nontemplates

15 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

In fact, anyone who is involved with selling a fraudlent product is fair game for the FTC to go

Which hasn't stopped them from being offered. I'm sure you don't Mike. It wasn't meant to be an accusation. I'm sure you've seen some so called copywriters make claims of their abilities who you know are not even real copywriters given their copy. I'm not even talking about any regular poster on Warrior's either.

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Kevin Lam 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Onslaught

Mine would be a penis reduction pill

Or an ego-reducer. Ah-ah-ah!

I couldn't agree more though. It's all about "what-ifs" even though we hear people say NOT to think about the "what-ifs". The what-ifs are what we all live one. Whether it's religious beliefs or relationships.

What if there isn't a God? What if there is?

What if she says no? What if she dates Fabio with the 24" snake just because he asked FIRST?
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Collette

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Onslaught

I don't think people are sucked in by hype, it is the possibilities they buy.

They/we/I buy hope

...We all have something we would love to enhance.

I don't care what country we are from, we all have something.

So true. Human nature is human nature.

And I think it's important to emphasize that, if your offer can do everything it claims - even if those claims are unbelievable - then it is NOT 'hype'.

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Collette 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Onslaught

Mine would be a penis reduction pill

Suuuuuure it would.

Got some proof to substantiate that hype?
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- Collette 15 years ago
  
  I thought what happened in Vegas, stayed in Vegas...?
  
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alpacabob 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Onslaught

They/we/I buy hope

I think hope is the basis of convincing anybody of anything- whether it's right or not.

I once interviewed a doctor about how he presents a condition that turns about 90% of the babies it affects into vegetables. He told me "I tell people the truth. And if I say there's a 90% chance that your child will be severely brain damaged with no quality of life they'll hear 'there's a 10% chance my child won't be a vegetable." Most people choose to live with the high possibility that their child will never recover.

I could go on for hours, but I think it goes to show that good copywriting doesn't need to be dishonest. This guy tried to impress that there's a 90% chance that the kid will have no quality of life and that pretty much none of these kids are normal. But people heard "10% aren't the worst case scenario."

I imagined what it would have been like if he had excitedly presented a 10% chance that your kid won't have a terrible condition. Nobody would do otherwise.

I don't think the source of "hype" (which I'd define as something like marketing momentum) has to be BS or dishonesty- I can be framing. You can be fully honest and create hype. Say. "I've fully tested this and my product has a 1% chance of making you skinnier- and I know this for a fact" and lots of people would buy- particularly if you make it clear that you're not feeding them B.S.

That said- I work in big pharmaceutical litigation and will say that there's plenty of B.S. snake oil sales out there- particularly in internet marketing. How many times have you received an email about the next big thing that will blow your competition out of the water? Honest reviews of internet marketing products is one of the hardest things to find anywhere. We're all hoping to get out of the rat race, so we can be led astray very easily.
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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

Collete, aren't you curious? Knowing Paul, he'll prove it. So enjoy the freak show, lol.

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Collette 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Kevin Lam

Collete, aren't you curious? Knowing Paul, he'll prove it. So enjoy the freak show, lol.

I look forward to that monstrous jpg crashing my computer. :p
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MacFreddie

Banned 15 years ago

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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

I think not!

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Kevin Lam

15 years ago

Okay, we're getting off topic here. This is my last post. Sorry for the disturbance folks. Please carry on. Nothing to see here but a monstrous....

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Daniel Scott

15 years ago

I was in Vegas with Paul.

My first thought was "I saw something like that at the zoo once... I think it was eating a goat."

-Dan

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Collette 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

I was in Vegas with Paul.

My first thought was "I saw something like that at the zoo once... I think it was eating a goat."

-Dan

Originally Posted by Onslaught

hahahaha

that's how you put images in words ladies and gentleman

Copywriting Quick Critique: Lacks specifics.

Was it a Pygmy Goat, or a Boer goat?

Inquiring minds want to know...
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Raydal

15 years ago

Does hype sell? YES!

Ever heard about Bernard Madoff? He was promising
18% returns to investors whether the market was
up or down. If that's not hype I don't know what
is. And his message sold in the billions to very
educated and sophisticated people.

You cannot underestimate the power of GREED.
People want MORE even if the logic doesn't add up.

-Ray Edwards

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SRLee

15 years ago

With regards to my PRE-sell that had been already modified, everyone that critiqued on it ask to remove the BS claim of mastering the guitar in 30 days.

It's hype, and so are others. I wonder why. @.@

But I removed the claim anyway. I believe the professionals.

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People buy into hype and B.S

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