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How do people rationalize lying in their marketing?

by marciayudkin
16 replies
Recently I encountered two well-known marketers recommending a funnel where you have automated webinars but pretend that these are scheduled live ones that only take place at, say, 2 pm or 7 pm on a certain day. (In truth, the webinars start whenever someone clicks on them.)

Clearly this is a lie, and it's something I wouldn't do for that reason.

I'm guessing, though, that this probably works well, and has been tested and validated as a tactic. After all, it gets the prospect to make a choice and a commitment in order to get to the next step in the funnel.

My question for you is, how do you think those who advocate this justify to themselves this kind of lying?

1)It's harmless - ie, doesn't do the customer or the marketers themselves any harm.

2)Everyone does it.

3)Whatever works is good. Lying is not relevant in marketing unless it's horribly blatant or harmful.

4)They don't even think of it as lying. The truthfulness is completely outside of their radar.

I really do want your thoughts on this!

Thanks,
Marcia Yudkin
#automated #ethical dilemmas #ethics #lying #marketing #people #rationalize #webinars
  • Profile picture of the author art72
    I remember when the software launched for this, and was considered promoting it as an affiliate... But, it seemed deceptive.

    Like you said...it doesnt hurt anybody, and yet to make a person nelieve their in a live event that is actually fake... Might explain the dark cirles around that marketers eyes when it was rolling out in pre-launch.

    I am more honest and would rather (if using webinars) send a replay link... I watxh replays occasionally...just to hear the pre-sell and the pitch.

    Yeah... I am a bit bias in thinking it is deceptive marketing. With that said, I bet most never realize its a replay with a fake live feel.

    Art
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  • Profile picture of the author YourBizAid
    Banned
    That's called an automated webinar. I'm sure Frank is one of the guys you're talking about... 😉
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  • Profile picture of the author zaralockwood
    Point A. Depends, the philosophy of truth! - when does a lie cross the line? Is the Grinch real?

    Lying, I have read in various pychological books over the years is generally seen as a natural human instinct connected to the will to survive, like food/water/shelter. Problem crops up when some people are allowed to lie (and get away with it) more than others - leads to

    Point B. the sum is Politics + Religion + Tin Foil = Perfect Storm. Cycle complete, start again at Point A...
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  • Profile picture of the author rhiebert
    The web is huge so it takes "street smarts" or more specifically, "web savvy". Hi-5 to you for having taking the "higher road".
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  • Profile picture of the author danieldesai
    Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

    My question for you is, how do you think those who advocate this justify to themselves this kind of lying?
    Great question, Marcia.

    My guess is, most of them just don't care, heh.

    On the other hand, I've also noticed other "respectable" marketers using automated webinars which are promoted as though they're live.

    You might not call any names but I will.

    Mark Ling uses automated webinars, and he does so to great effect.

    The reason why I mentioned him is that I do not think he's a "bad" marketer, quite the opposite.

    Now, as to why he justifies automated webinars, I suspect it's this:

    1)It's harmless - ie, doesn't do the customer or the marketers themselves any harm.
    I've actually heard some other marketers say that if you're not doing everything in your power to sell your leads something of value, you're doing your audience a disservice.

    Personally, I've never done it but I can see the reasoning behind that argument.

    But yes...

    As I've said before, most marketers just wouldn't (and don't) care.

    Regards,
    Daniel
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  • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
    Thanks, Daniel.

    But the point is, there is a huge difference between automated webinars, which are not bad in and of themselves, and automated webinars that the marketer lies about.

    Marcia Yudkin
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    • Profile picture of the author danieldesai
      Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

      Thanks, Daniel.

      But the point is, there is a huge difference between automated webinars, which are not bad in and of themselves, and automated webinars that the marketer lies about.

      Marcia Yudkin
      I think that boils down to "doing everything in your power to sell your leads something of value".

      Marketers are very much aware that having a "live" webinar will increase turnout (and sales).

      Perhaps to them, hosting a pre-recorded webinar as a means to deliver value to their audience and make them more profit is justifiable so long as the content itself is not harmful.

      This argument goes into a gray area since you'll need to first identify whether or not there are certain instances where lying is "better" for someone's well-being.

      This is a bit off-topic but it just brought to mind something a friend told me about lying to his wife about her new atrocious hair-do.

      Not for her sake, but for his.

      Daniel
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  • Profile picture of the author Grazina Ajana Szewczyk
    1)It's harmless - ie, doesn't do the customer or the marketers themselves any harm.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Roberts
    "Everyone lies" Dr Gregory House - but it's endemic in this industry. Not just live webinar scams - how about:
    + "last week's earnings" (thankfully largely gone from WF),
    + "brand new underground method" (almost always untrue),
    + "I will be removing this for sale in the next 24 hours" - why would anyone believe this blatant attempt to leverage scarcity?
    + "One Time Offer" - nope - you can load that URL any time
    + "I'm doing this to help my fellow marketers" - errr, well, who am I to judge motives, but really?

    There are plenty of ethical people on this forum, but ultimately, where there's money, there are scams. It seems humans operate this way.
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  • Profile picture of the author Grazina Ajana Szewczyk
    "1)It's harmless - ie, doesn't do the customer or the marketers themselves any harm."

    I disagree, Marcia.

    I signed up for one of those webinars, and got up at 4 AM to join. Maybe I wouldn't have noticed that it wasn't live, but I wanted to ask a question and it didn't work, so finally I realised why.

    It cheesed me off so much that I unsubscribed from the list, and never bough anything from them anymore (used to before)>

    I don't have a problem with pre-recorded webinars, I watch some on YouTube and that's fine, as long as I know it's not some out-of-date stuff.

    But I have a problem with people not only lying to me but trying to BS me that it's for my benefit.
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  • Profile picture of the author splitTest
    They don't care as long as it makes them money. And they don't worry about insulting the intelligence of their target market, because it's the dumb money they're going for.

    Ogilvy said it, and it remains true: direct-response tends to attract conmen. And the web is a conman's wet dream. The webinar lies are the least of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author myattitude
    I think it's pretty evil actually. It's a dark world in web marketing. It's better than it used to be though.
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  • Profile picture of the author onehalf
    "Whatever works is good. Lying is not relevant in marketing unless it's horribly blatant or harmful", some marketers have this kind of mentality. Deceptive marketing is very much prevalent on the web these days.
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  • Profile picture of the author [RyanMilligan]
    Banned
    It really all depends. If someone is outright deceptive and provides content that doesn't increase your knowledge or make you think highly of the info that was marketed and the whole reason you ended up their in the first place.

    If someone provides massive amounts of value to you though and was just a little persuasive in how they got you in "the door" then I think that isn't so bad.
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  • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
    It really all depends. If someone is outright deceptive and provides content that doesn't increase your knowledge or make you think highly of the info that was marketed and the whole reason you ended up their in the first place.

    If someone provides massive amounts of value to you though and was just a little persuasive in how they got you in "the door" then I think that isn't so bad.
    So if the lying accompanies good content it's OK and if it accompanies lousy content then it's not OK?

    In effect, the end makes the means irrelevant here?

    Marcia Yudkin
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    • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
      Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

      So if the lying accompanies good content it's OK and if it accompanies lousy content then it's not OK?

      In effect, the end makes the means irrelevant here?

      Marcia Yudkin
      It may not be so black and white.

      From a personal perspective I run regular live training sessions every month.

      On occasion I might need to show a process or demonstrate something that is easier to do when you have pre-recorded and constructed the sequence to deliver the best outcome for a trainee.

      In some circumstances I have used five pre-recorded segments intercut with live footage and live to camera Q&A.

      In those circumstances where a particular demonstration of one particular process has been pre-recorded does it make sense to say to the viewer ....

      "Oh...this is how I did it earlier"

      or

      "This is how to do it"

      If you are live and engaging with the audience does it matter to them whether parts of the presentation are pre-recorded and should you disclose this prior to starting?

      A bit like the cookery shows that present a finished product that they pre-baked earlier.

      I don't condone lying in any of your marketing because it will ultimately come back and cause grief to your business.

      Honesty is the best policy.

      The "evergreen" webinar model is pretty much a lovechild of the "NOW" generation.

      A bit like how the "Pay TV" services work trying to tell consumers that they will get the latest show at the same time as it released overseas.

      Consumers are manipulated all the time.

      Copywriters manipulate by their choice of words even if they use them with honest intentions.

      The webinar timing thing is a lot like automated email services with the ability to merge fields into the email and to time and sequence them to arrive at the right time to get the best response.

      Not to justify the practice but perhaps we all need to go back to personally handwritten communications delivered by post...or telegram...or marathon runner.

      Do we then know the sender is more honest?

      Best regards,

      Ozi
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