How much are you charging?

I know hundreds of REAL copy writers. When I say real, I mean men and women making their living, and for the most part, a pretty decent one...

by writing copy.

I don't know ONE, not one, NONE, and especially if they make a 6 figure US dollar income.....

NOT one, who would ever charge by a word count. It is perhaps the silliest of all questions, the mark of less than an amateur, and probably will prevent you from reaching your potential...to even think about word count when writing copy, unless that is what the job is, in the case of limited space, like catalog description or Amazon books.

Even then, set a price. And of course, the old IT DEPENDS comes into play. Now a copy writer can make some money with non direct response copy, and many agency ones do.

BUT, I doubt if they work on word counts, unless space is an issue.

The sooner you newbs get out of word count, the faster your progress.

The question. Can anyone point me to a succesful direct response copy writer with a track record who sells copy by the word? If so, I'll eat crow.

GordonJ

D,

As soon as you mention the rate per word, you automatically enter the content writing zone. That's not necessarily bad, but I know for sure that copywriters play by the different set of rules. My advice, hit the rate per project approach, even if it means that you have to set the price for every project individually.

Since you mentioned it, the current rate of $4/100 words, I put it this way because it's easier to calculate, is a little bit low, especially for a native speaker, I guess. My friendly advice is for you to aim anywhere between $5 and $10/100 words. You do the math. Delivering 10K words per project is a serious work. So, you have every right to ask to be compensated accordingly.

Cheers,
Nesha

Thank you all for your advice and observations, I was really needing them.

I understand your point about getting paid for words numbers and not for projects, and I believe you are right, I hate being payed like that, in a lot of projects Ive found my self trying to reach 5000 words or 10000 words adding unnecessary things to my copy writing, just to reach the objective, those situations really mess up with the quality of my work, but the true is the systems made us do that.

The thing is, how do I convince my client to use a different systems? In the clients mind, they are paying you for concrete and concise things, not for your creativity, in their minds that just like an accessory to the main thing they are buying: words. So how do you change their minds in that? is quite a difficult thing.

Besides from that, I will also like to know what are your thoughts on when a copy writer should start thinking to raise their fees. Im really trying to make a living out of this, right know, im making more or less 1000 usd per month from my projects, its not a lot of money, and I want to increase my gaining.

Avoid charging per word at all cost.

You will devalue your offering and won't be taken seriously.

Charge by the hour and forget the word count.

You can do some research and find the standard hourly rates.

It really comes down to your experience, niche area and your style.

Good luck.

The key is to climb out of the swamp and look for real-world clients. If you truly do live in Phoenix, you have tens of thousands of businesses there who need marketing copy. Most of them would not dream of paying someone less than minimum wage for writing.

Read some posts in the Offline Marketing section to see how to snag such clients. They will be happy to pay a project fee.

On the other hand, your posts read as if they are written either by someone who is not a native English speaker or someone who lacks a mastery of the fundamentals. Invest in some instruction to brush up on how to write correct English, as well.

Good luck,
Marcia Yudkin

hi David

I have to agree with GordonJ and others. Charging by the word count is simply the wrong way to go and you will end up in some backroom sweatshop if you continue this practice.

Only by the project!

Also, what's one of the most important aspects of the copy you write? Testimonials!

Tell your clients you are offering this low fee and asking in return a great testimonial if they like what you write. Then follow up and see what results they are getting and get a 2nd or 3rd more powerful testimonial also.

These go on your web site and in any marketing package you might send it.

Think of yourself like a new artist. When they start out selling their work, it's dirt cheap, compared to some. Maybe only a few hundred dollars a painting.

But each year as they get more repeat business and known. Their price goes up until they charge $20,000 a painting (or whatever) - When I buy these expensive paintings, (I have several) I want to know the artist is known by "others" and respected by what they do. Their art is in museums or wherever.

I want to know other people love their work. In fact, that's the ONLY way there's any value to what they produce. The same is true for you. You must create your value so people will wait in line for you. It's supply and demand.

It's tough to become great - but it's worth it!

You're going to do the work anyway, so you might as well make you and it great!

Make sense?

I hope that helps.
Tony

How much you should charge your words is usually a function of self-worth.

If you have a high self-worth, you will attract clients willing to pay it.

Hard to believe, I know.

But you more experienced copywriters, back me up on this, ok? Because I know I'm not alone in this thinking.

When I started, I was lucky to be making $2 an hour after all the work I put into stuff. I thought I would work much faster than I ultimately did, or I SORELY underestimated what it'd take to get things done, or I didn't hold the line when someone foisted a giant creep of scope on me.

When I started valuing what I do, that is to say - when I stopped thinking in terms of "what are people willing to pay me?" and started thinking "how can I deliver so much value that people have no problem paying what I ask?", I started getting fees I never would have imagined.

I'm only just getting started, too (as far as charging what I'm worth and ignoring anyone that doesn't see the value in paying that).

Before, when I approached it from an "I don't know when the next one will come along, so I better do everything in my power to get this client to sign on the dotted line" mindset, a SCARCITY mindset - I'd attract miracle-seeking clients and people that were just a bad fit for working with me. It was a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I had to let all that go and trust that there were people out there who value the work. That someone out there needed me and my perspective. And that I'd find them.

THAT was when I started working my way up.

And the higher my fees got, the more likely I'd be working with pros who trust me to do what I do and don't expect constant progress updates, validation, and endless editing privileges. They hire me because I have a skill that they don't. Or my skills allow me to get it done much faster than they could, so they respect me. And I respect them too - they're not just a source of cash. They're partners.

I credit Rick with telling me to fire all the bottom feeders. Where before I felt like $100 was the best I could do (and then I had to do with ego-maniacs, micromanagers, and people expecting a miracle for spending their last dime on me - which is BIG FLASHING RED WARNING SIGN by the way), now I can name a mid 4-figure fee for e-commerce listings and the client doesn't blink (because he or she understands investing in business growth and closing the sale).

Thanks, Angie.

You've come a long way very quickly.

Yes, over-delivery as a deliberate strategy can be an extremely effective way to lift your income.

It's a true point of distinction. Especially when vast majority of copywriters don't do it.

For you to do that, while you're chasing down your next projects, is especially noteworthy.

I'm happy for you.

So when are you going to come out with your own product that shows people how?

LOL Rick - maybe soon, man. Just gave the J-O-B notice and am going freelance full-time very soon.

Gotta flip the question over an' thinka chargin' ... as in powerin' up.

See, I connect up my phone right now when she is deado, an' I got mebbe a daya chat n' txt n' play time before she goes back on the charger.

Any geeks bring out a phone gonna power for 3 or 4 days, I am srsly interested even if it roasts my clutch bag.

10 day phone?

I figure people gonna lick their way up Everest for onea those.

So I guessya gotta ask what happens when chargea copy fills up the battery powerin' any biz device?

What persuasive functionality do the words confer upon the idea/product/message transmitted by said device?

Prolly the value starts with that kinda chargin'.

I'm late to the party here but I'll try to offer you some advice.

Never charge by the word or by the hour. Charge by the project or the results you can deliver for your clients.

When should you raise your rates? When you feel your skills and expertise are worth more than you're currently charging and that you can find clients who are happy to pay the new rates. The more client testimonials and winners you have written, the easier it becomes to charge more. Keep in mind that your past/current clients may not be willing to pay your new rates. That's where your own ability to market your business comes into play.

Keep working on building your own marketing skills. The copywriters who do very well consistently year after year are the ones who know how to market and promote themselves effectively.

Struggling copywriters say "how can I get clients?'. And they start hunting around for any suggestions or ideas they can find.

Marketing-savvy copywriters say "how do I want to get clients?". And then they go out and do it.

Good luck,

Mike

Basing pricing on anything other than the end result = commoditization.

Whether we're talking words or hours, that thinking and that pricing model attracts bottom feeders, as Angie calls them. Remember that pricing is a marketing strategy. Your price signals who you do and don't work with.

I want to add here that this is also a poor way to go about writing articles and blog posts for clients, too. Content mills will pay you by the word. It's an outdated model that puts the focus on the wrong thing - the words. Always charge by the project if you can. That lets you direct the conversation back to the end result you're bringing for the client, not on how many hours you work or words you write.

I wanted to thank everyone here for your advice, you really gave me some good tips on how to improve my charging systems.

Im trying to start charging by the project to all my clients, and I have definitely leave word counts in the past. I havent raised my fees though, because I dont think my skills are good enough right now for doing that, and I dont want to scam my clients. I will keep practicing and studying for at least a couple of months before raising my fees.

The reason copywriters can charge a LOT of money for a script or sales letter is simple:

You provide an ROI.

Sounds like you don't have that knowing... and confidence, yet.

And that's fine. You need to prove to yourself that you're worth a LOT of money.

Just keep showing up, and declaring, "This gig will be my most effective work, ever."

And if you do that every single time...

You'll be making 5-figure-a-month with ease.

Mark

I hope copywriting hopefuls are taking notes. The responses here from the more experienced copywriters are extremely realistic and actionable.

You can do it. Follow their lead.

One has to believe what is possible.

First, you have to get a small win.

Next win is a bigger amount.

Third, win bigger again.

Keep re-setting the belief as to what is possible for YOURSELF.

A cold calling ad space guy I mentor started out selling to single location
restaurants for 2 and 3k in Pounds.

Then he moved up to multi- location businesses.

Now he broke the 10k barrier.

Then came shopping malls.

Next Internet-based companies.

Then multi-million dollar helicopters.and Wind Turbine Contracts.

Talks with Addidas and American Express.

AMEX are wanting to work with him at a minimum 200k package.
He's packaging deals at 2 price points higher.

Now those last price points are already being sold by other media reps to AMEX,
so this adds to his belief he can get that kind of money too.

So it's a progression as his belief to what's possible and talking to those
that already invest larger amounts of money than the previous contacts he makes.

This took 4 months.

He's 24 years old.

Best,
Ewen

Hi,

Interesting thread. Completely agree charging by the word is NOT the way to go.

However I see where people charge by the hour, or by fixed price. And those who charge by the hour, tend to charge over $100 per hour, which does not seem so bad, at least to those without the years of experience. I am at that point right now. I am writing copy for different projects but still as I look for further projects I am responding to some that are by the hour. Not sure what to do after reading this thread!

Quick noob question don`t mean to highjack this.But the period of time you do to research a market is it included in your hourly rate or not simple yes or no will do.
Thanks

Are you a copywriter or a content writer?

A copywriter creates sales and marketing content with a concrete goal / call to action the audience must take for the piece to be considered successful. A content writer creates content to fill blogs, newsletters, websites, magazines, etc. Their content is used to attract visitors to the brand's media properties using mostly SEO, social media, and links from other sites, then engage them once they're there. That content is focused on authority establishment, trust building, and relationship deepening.

Freelancing is the best, i am already doing full time freelancing

I just read 'Breaking the Time Barrier' by Mike McDerment and I think you will find it useful. It is available for free download.

I wonder one thing.

In the beginning, it makes relative sense to trade time for money.

However, after a while, it is far more profitable to just get a cut of the sales. Yes, it requires some trust (or a contract) and faith that what you do works. And yes, there are some risks involved like the funnel not working but again, this can be judged and reviewed accordingly.

If the other person has the list or the ability to drive traffic in an efficient manner, why should you even charge per hour / word / project? Take 10 - 15% of net revenue. If you can earn him $100.000, that's $10.000 - $15.000. If you help him with a product launch and that launch makes $500.000, even a small percentage of 5% is $25.000.

The real money in copywriting is not in trading time for money. Those are the training wheels. They are good until you learn what works and what doesn't. It is more or less a paid internship, as you are getting paid no matter what.

But once you can walk the talk, go for leverage. Go for net revenue or the ability to work the list or some other metric that has NOTHING to do with the time you invest but EVERYTHING to do with your ability to persuade, convert and sell.

Be an investor.

A traditional investor puts his money into companies he believes in or those that make sense. He expects 70 - 80% of them to fail, yet, he can become rich on those 20 - 30%. The same with copywriting. You can invest, not money, but conversion capital. Maybe you create ten projects but eight of them fall. But if those two, cumulated, sell $1.000.000, even something like 5% or 10% can make you very, very rich.

If you want upside, be prepared to have a downside. If you want $50.000, then risk investing 250 hours and earning nothing. I'm not talking about spec work. I'm talking about a real partnership, with someone who is already earning money and which can act as a multiplying factor for your skills.

Would this strategy make sense with someone who can't afford traffic? NO.
Would this strategy make sense with a complete beginner? NO.
Would this strategy make sense with someone you don't trust and without legal protection? NO.

But there are many people out there whom ...
- Have huge lists.
- Run $10.000/day - $50.000/day - $100.000/day PPC campaigns.
- Have a track record of earning millions of dollars in revenue.
- Can appreciate a copywriter who is willing to take the downside for the higher upside.

And you know what? Many of these people appreciate these kind of deals from an ideological perspective. They appreciate risk takers and they appreciate people who mirror their mindset, as multi-million dollar ventures as rarely built in a risk adverse manner.