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Unread 23rd Dec 2016, 02:32 PM   #1
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How to know how much i am worth?
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Hello,

I want to do NLP copywriting on UPwork.I need to know how much to start with.I saw that the minimum for NLP copywriting is 40$ but someone told me that i should start with 70-80$ i don`t know if he was serious or making fun of me. How much should you charge if you can make decent copy and you are a beginner
Thank you
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Unread 23rd Dec 2016, 05:15 PM   #2
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You should really check out the stickies. This question has been asked many times.

The short answer: whatever you feel comfortable charging.

The more complicated answer: a combination of what you need to make ends meet and the value you deliver.

All of the numbers you named, for me personally, would never work.

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Unread 23rd Dec 2016, 06:44 PM   #3
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Re: How to know how much i am worth?
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Originally Posted by szaby View Post

Hello,

I want to do NLP copywriting on UPwork.I need to know how much to start with.I saw that the minimum for NLP copywriting is 40$ but someone told me that i should start with 70-80$ i don`t know if he was serious or making fun of me. How much should you charge if you can make decent copy and you are a beginner
Thank you
Try pitching different prices to your clients.

You will over time get an idea of what sticks and what most clients are comfortable paying.

Yes this involves some trial and error.

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Unread 23rd Dec 2016, 07:33 PM   #4
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RE: How to know how much i am worth?
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If you base your pricing on what you think others will accept instead of what you need/are worth, you're setting yourself up for failure.

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Unread 24th Dec 2016, 02:45 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by szaby View Post

Hello,

I want to do NLP copywriting on UPwork.I need to know how much to start with.I saw that the minimum for NLP copywriting is 40$ but someone told me that i should start with 70-80$ i don`t know if he was serious or making fun of me. How much should you charge if you can make decent copy and you are a beginner
Thank you
Base your fees on how much value you bring to the table.

And of course in your proposals (or conversations with prospective clients) be sure to establish your value.

Alex

3 Insider Techniques Used by Top Copywriters
to Maximize Website and Video Conversions
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Unread 25th Dec 2016, 02:12 PM   #6
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I agree with what Angie said... If you base your pricing on what you think others are willing to pay ( as I have a bad habit of doing) you'll often find by the end of the project you've undersold your time and your abilities to the point; the money received can feel insulting.

I just made that mistake on a huge renovation project. Being it was the 1st job under my new business, I wanted positive feedback, a genuine customer testimonial, and foolishly believed the customer would appreciate the savings...

While the client is indeed happy, the time, energy, and expertise I put into the job is not conducive to what my time is worth or what I need to charge people to sustain costs and grow my business.

...There too, customers will often exploit lower pricing as desperation, and that adds more injury to insult, and gives them too much leverage/control.

Command your prices... as often, the idea of being too nice can be both costly and damaging to your personal and financial growth.

Funny thing being, my wife screamed;"you should be charging $3500-$4000" and I argued that I could be happy with $2500 for my time. (She was right... again, lol!)

But... I projected the project to take 10 days, it took 18 days working 10-12 hour days... Oops!

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Unread 25th Dec 2016, 03:11 PM   #7
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Re: How to know how much i am worth?
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Originally Posted by szaby View Post

Hello,

I want to do NLP copywriting on UPwork.I need to know how much to start with.I saw that the minimum for NLP copywriting is 40$ but someone told me that i should start with 70-80$ i don`t know if he was serious or making fun of me. How much should you charge if you can make decent copy and you are a beginner
Thank you


You obviously can't write.

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Unread 27th Dec 2016, 01:07 PM   #8
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Why don't you just charge somebody something and see if they pay?

I mean, think of the highest amount you think you'd get in your wildest dreams, make a case for it to a few prospects. If none bite, try a lower amount or increase the perceived value of whatever it is you answer.

Or start with a low number. If someone hires you, you know you can get it and you can try for a higher number. If no one hires you, lower the number or increase the perceived value of what you're offering.

But offer something at some price!
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Unread 27th Dec 2016, 04:05 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by yukon View Post

You obviously can't write.
I wrote fast and without my glasses.Who cares about a blog post nobody is getting money out of this
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Unread 28th Dec 2016, 12:08 PM   #10
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So, how are you going to get clients if you write fast and without your glasses on?

Originally Posted by szaby View Post

I wrote fast and without my glasses.Who cares about a blog post nobody is getting money out of this
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Unread 30th Dec 2016, 03:29 AM   #11
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Re: How to know how much i am worth?
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I'm of the view that you should allow your results to dictate your worth. The moment you can point back to a single successful client, you've established a clear, numbers based proposition for future ones.

You seem to be focusing on small projects, so get that email open rate and click through rate (for example) from the client and use it as the basis of your argument for yourself on the next project.

Having a a numerically precise idea of what you bring to the table helps your confidence, which allows you to ask more with all the nonverbals dialed in.

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Unread 30th Dec 2016, 09:47 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by szaby View Post

I wrote fast and without my glasses.Who cares about a blog post nobody is getting money out of this

Sunshine.

A lot of folks around here hire freelancers. If you want business, act like it.

BTW, this is a forum not a blog. Put your glasses on.

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Unread 30th Dec 2016, 09:42 PM   #13
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No offense, OP, but it's too easy, I gots to do it: Yukon, what if the OP puts on his glasses and the writing doesn't improve?

Originally Posted by yukon View Post

Sunshine.

A lot of folks around here hire freelancers. If you want business, act like it.

BTW, this is a forum not a blog. Put your glasses on.
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Unread 1st Jan 2017, 08:39 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Sean DeSilva View Post

I'm of the view that you should allow your results to dictate your worth. The moment you can point back to a single successful client, you've established a clear, numbers based proposition for future ones.

You seem to be focusing on small projects, so get that email open rate and click through rate (for example) from the client and use it as the basis of your argument for yourself on the next project.

Having a a numerically precise idea of what you bring to the table helps your confidence, which allows you to ask more with all the nonverbals dialed in.
Thanks for pointing this one out.

This is the reason why I'm always asking for results once I'm done writing for clients. If they can't give me the figures, at least a testimonial indicating why I need this "X" amount of rate.

Unfortunately, some clients are afraid ( or don't care ) to disclose these figures to me. And I don't have any freaking idea why. One client simply answered, "Your work is fine, trust me." Another client tells me that everything's fine and good. I mean, how am I suppose to justify my rate if most of my client say the same thing?
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Unread 1st Jan 2017, 10:32 PM   #15
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How much did the client who said "Your work is fine, trust me" pay you?

You can justify that amount because someone paid you that amount. Why are you making this complicated?

If you're trying to justify more:
Next time the client who said "Your work is fine, trust me" hires you charge more. If they pay you more, that's what you can justify.

Or get a new client and charge more for the same work than you've charged the one who said "Your work is fine, trust me."

You don't justify what you charge by what they say about your work. You justify what you charge by how much they're willing to pay you for that work.


Originally Posted by D3x View Post

Thanks for pointing this one out.

This is the reason why I'm always asking for results once I'm done writing for clients. If they can't give me the figures, at least a testimonial indicating why I need this "X" amount of rate.

Unfortunately, some clients are afraid ( or don't care ) to disclose these figures to me. And I don't have any freaking idea why. One client simply answered, "Your work is fine, trust me." Another client tells me that everything's fine and good. I mean, how am I suppose to justify my rate if most of my client say the same thing?
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Unread 2nd Jan 2017, 11:56 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by DABK View Post

You don't justify what you charge by what they say about your work. You justify what you charge by how much they're willing to pay you for that work.
I would challenge this.

It's not about how much THEY are willing to pay.

It's about the value YOU deliver.

People will willingly pay people/businesses they LIKE, because they value the "know, like, trust" thing above lowest pricing possible. And if you deliver on TOP of being likable?

Figure out how you deliver value. Find people who can benefit from that value who will pay for it.

I go back to my email sequence example - if I charge a client a flat rate of $150 per email, I may be doing great, even profitable.

Put it into context: that 3-part email series led to $8.4MM in sales.

Now do you feel like I charged enough? Probably not. I got $450, and the client got WAY more out of my effort than I did.

PRICE YOURSELF ON VALUE DELIVERED.

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Unread 2nd Jan 2017, 12:21 PM   #17
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I would say your worth a percentage of the amount of money you can make for your client. So the sky is the limit in terms of your mindset in creativity in rich thinking.
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Unread 2nd Jan 2017, 01:33 PM   #18
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Who decides the value of the value you delivered?

How is that expressed?

I do understand what you are saying, but it's not the whole thing and, it seems to me, the OP is trying to figure out the value of the value they deliver.



Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

I would challenge this.

It's not about how much THEY are willing to pay.

It's about the value YOU deliver.

People will willingly pay people/businesses they LIKE, because they value the "know, like, trust" thing above lowest pricing possible. And if you deliver on TOP of being likable?

Figure out how you deliver value. Find people who can benefit from that value who will pay for it.

I go back to my email sequence example - if I charge a client a flat rate of $150 per email, I may be doing great, even profitable.

Put it into context: that 3-part email series led to $8.4MM in sales.

Now do you feel like I charged enough? Probably not. I got $450, and the client got WAY more out of my effort than I did.

PRICE YOURSELF ON VALUE DELIVERED.
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Unread 2nd Jan 2017, 02:06 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by DABK View Post

Who decides the value of the value you delivered?

How is that expressed?

I do understand what you are saying, but it's not the whole thing and, it seems to me, the OP is trying to figure out the value of the value they deliver.
Part of that value is confidence, right? If you're not sure what you can deliver, then you're not sure what value you provide, and you're not sure how to position your value against what you want to deliver.

I think it was Rick that broke it down in a way that made a lot of sense -

If I can make you a dollar, would you be willing to pay me 25 cents? (or other fee you're comfortable naming).

That simplifies the question to "if I make someone a dollar, how much of that dollar should I earn for my efforts?", which is much easier to answer than "how much will they pay me to do XYZ series of discrete tasks?"

It does all go back to confidence though. If you're not confident you can make that dollar, then go figure out how to make that dollar. Then you know what part of that dollar should be yours in terms of effort expended.

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Unread 3rd Jan 2017, 10:33 AM   #20
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It's important to consider 'value' to your client as well as value to your client's clients. You supply both values. Based on the platform you are and also your own circumstances, determine what you feel you should charge, not based on what anyone says.
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Unread 3rd Jan 2017, 11:25 AM   #21
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Yes, part of value is confidence.

But there are markets.

I'll use examples from another industry I know, so nobody feels I have something against them.

In the real estate appraisal industry, there are sections of employers that pay little, sections that pay average, sections that pay a lot.

There are appraisers who are quite confident that they're worth more than $250. for a basic appraisal, but they're competing and screaming in the mortgage/appraisal management company market, the lowest paying one... where most appraisers work.

You need to know what your market bears and have confidence to ask for what you think you're worth.

I suppose not competing outside the mortgage/appraisal management company market can be assigned to lack of confidence. Though I usually just place it in the accurate thinking and accurate market analysis part of my world.

I keep suggesting to people asking how much they're efforts are worth to experiment a little with raising prices, looking for different clients and, of course, look at how much they're charging in relation to how much what they deliver ends up earning (money or otherwise) to the client.

But the last part tends to get me in trouble as people don't seem to accurately assess... They say things like: a mortgage broker makes $5k on one loan, if I bring him/her 10 extra loans, I'm bringing him $50000. 5% of that is $2500. If my copy brings them 10 new clients month after month, I'm worth $2500 each month for months on end, or a lump sum of $100,000.

They forget, in other words, that gross revenue is not the best way to look at value from the client's point of view. And that the client has additional expenses marketing the copy... for months on end. That the real value to the mortgage broker is not $2500 but more like $500 to $800 for the first 10 extra sales.

Rick is right: if the client tells you $1 you bring in is worth $0.08 to me, that's what it's worth to that client. But value is when the seller and buyer agree on it.

So, we're back to: what do you think you're worth and how much can you actually get paid for what you do? When those are the same, you've arrived at the answer to How much am I worth.

I have, right now, 2 prospects. They want the same thing. One wants me to accept 1% of gross; the other one 1.5% of gross. They're in different industries, so 1% of gross per average sale for client #1 is $70; 1.5% for the 2nd one's average sale is $240. My time in, effort and required skills, in other words, are the same but the per-sale amount is vastly different.

At this point we have to consider how good their closing people are... At this point, based on what they say, it's the same... At this point, I have to say yes to prospect #2 and no to prospect #1.

A while back I'd have said yes to both... because I have 24 hours in the day and many were left empty of income-producing activities. Now, not only do I not have empty hours but all my hours now bring in more than what prospect #1's offer would.

All that to just say that what you're worth is fluid, changes over time. Stay on top of that change and you're better off.

PS My notions of value have been permanently 'damaged' by the market value for real estate appraisers:
The most probable price, as of a specified date, in cash, or in terms equivalent to cash, or in other precisely revealed terms, for which the specified property rights should sell after reasonable exposure in a competitive market under all conditions requisite to a fair sale, with the buyer and seller each acting prudently, knowledgeably, and for self-interest, and assuming that neither is under undue duress.

Originally Posted by angiecolee View Post

Part of that value is confidence, right? If you're not sure what you can deliver, then you're not sure what value you provide, and you're not sure how to position your value against what you want to deliver.

I think it was Rick that broke it down in a way that made a lot of sense -

If I can make you a dollar, would you be willing to pay me 25 cents? (or other fee you're comfortable naming).

That simplifies the question to "if I make someone a dollar, how much of that dollar should I earn for my efforts?", which is much easier to answer than "how much will they pay me to do XYZ series of discrete tasks?"

It does all go back to confidence though. If you're not confident you can make that dollar, then go figure out how to make that dollar. Then you know what part of that dollar should be yours in terms of effort expended.
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Unread 9th Jan 2017, 03:53 AM   #22
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I believe it depends on how much time and effort you will invest in the work. If you provide good quality, you deserve good money.
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Unread 10th Jan 2017, 12:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by szaby View Post

Hello,

I want to do NLP copywriting on UPwork.I need to know how much to start with.I saw that the minimum for NLP copywriting is 40$ but someone told me that i should start with 70-80$ i don`t know if he was serious or making fun of me. How much should you charge if you can make decent copy and you are a beginner
Thank you

It sounds like you're a little uncertain of yourself. So, my advice to you is charge just a little bit more than you think you're worth.
Not so much that you feel like a fraud, but enough to stretch your comfort zone.
For one thing, you just might get it. And that alone will help raise your self esteem.

Then once you build your reputation, and confidence, raise your rates again.

It's really up to you to decide what you're worth. Then balance that out with what your market will bear.

Like a wise man once told me "If you place a low value on your own worth, the world will never raise your prices for you."

SARubin - Professional Copywriter / Advertising and Marketing Egghead
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