Best copywriter in the IM world...

16 years ago

Do you want to know who the best copywriter is or who the best teacher is? They might not be the same.

What are you actually looking for? A home study course? Someone to "follow"? Someone to be mentored by?

You could get personal mentoring from David Garfinkle for $25,000 or read Clayton Makepeace's "The Total Package" for free -- in both cases you'll be learning from the best

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dorothydot 16 years ago

I think you might consider amending your request to Who is the best copywriter in the IM world.... For Me?

You see, everyone has their own style of writing. Their own interests, their own phrasings. IMO, you need to find a successful copywriter whose writing and values mirror your own as much as possible - then study everything you can find that the Copywriter has done. Learn all you can from that Copywriter - because what you learn will best apply to your own work.

Also, there will be more than one marketer/copywriter with similar styles and writing. Learn all you can from one, then move on to the next and learn from that one.

Never, never forget that every single person in this world has something you can learn from him/her. It's just that some folks have more to teach you than others.

It's a matter of knowing yourself and your very own style. Do that by studying many sales letters and websites. Learn from all - at least when you're starting out.

Hope this helps,
Dot
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- Ronwag 16 years ago
  
  Hi Dot;
  You always give caring, thoughtful answers, Thanks
  
  [ 1 ] Thanks
  
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Ronwag 16 years ago

Even though he is mainly known for his direct marketing focus, I think Dan Kennedy is one of the very best. His books like the Ultimate Sales Letter are very valuable tools. Agree? disagree?
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Sandor Verebi

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Heath Sanchez

Has anyone got an ideas who this might be? I want to learn from the best.

Greetings Heath,

You wrote you want to learn. Right.

I don't want to hurt the living persons, but I recommend you Gary Halbert, who there is not already between us unfortunately, and you may learn a lot from him after all because he was the largest at his time. You can find his works on The Gary Halbert Letter

Enjoy,

Sandor
________________
"The largest source of the richness is between your two ears." (Brian Tracy)

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Heath Sanchez 16 years ago

Very interesting and helpful points guys. Thank you. I will look into all off this.

If there is anyone else with a recommendation, please let me know!
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- thatgirlJ 16 years ago
  
  Michel Fortin! His "The Copy Doctor" site is amazing. His blog is great as well. www.michelfortin.com/
  
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vinnylingo

16 years ago

I'll encourage people to learn what they can from what's still available from Gary Halbert. On top of his site, thegaryhalbertletter.com, I would strongly suggest you devote some time to listening to two 2-hour-long interviews which Michel Fortin did with him. You can find those over at:

http://www.copywriterslibrary.com

I would also recommend search youtube for him, as there are at least a couple vids available.

John Carlton, who you'll see was also interviewed by Michel Fortin, is another great one. But I'll go into left field by saying that the best copywriter in the world is someone we'll probably never hear about or ever see a product for aspiring copywriters from.

It's honestly like that in most industries. Not to discredit those top names who do present themselves and make a go of teaching the mass of new entrants to an industry. But, at least until they're damn near dead, most people are happy to enjoy their success and keep to themselves.

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David-Stone 16 years ago

I would agree with a lot of what dorothydot has to say, we are all individuals both from a learning and a buying point of view.

If you are going to really learn something from a teacher you need to have some sort of connection with that person. If the persons views, phrasings are so alien to you they are not going to flow back from you when you write.

It is similar to the 'how long should a sales letter be' type questions.
From a buying point of view we are all different some would prefer to be courted for a lot of pages of copy others just want the facts.
Me personally, I would rather a short letter telling me the facts only rather than 20+ pages trying to pick out the facts then feeling I need to read all the rest just in case there is 'small print' I need to know about.

Perhaps that is why a short video I just watched from Frank Kern resonated well with me, he presented a simple no nonsense approach.
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Heath Sanchez

16 years ago

Originally Posted by vinnylingo

It's honestly like that in most industries. Not to discredit those top names who do present themselves and make a go of teaching the mass of new entrants to an industry. But, at least until they're damn near dead, most people are happy to enjoy their success and keep to themselves.

Very interesting point vinny.

There's probably a quite a few amazing copywriters that will never share their secrets with the masses.

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MikeHumphreys

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Heath Sanchez

Very interesting point vinny.

There's probably a quite a few amazing copywriters that will never share their secrets with the masses.

True. I've met some awesome copywriters who have zero interest in teaching copywriting or becoming known as a copywriting "guru" (whatever that means).

The other thing is, you can reveal everything you know about writing copy for free and 99.9% of the people who read it still won't be able to write as well as you do because they aren't you.

Find the copywriter(s) who write the style that rings true to your gut and then find out if they teach or mentor.

And don't limit yourself to strictly the IM world. There's a lot of great copywriters out there who don't write for the IM niche like Doug D'Anna, Carline Anglade-Cole, David Deutsch, Brian Keith Voiles, and many many others.

Learn how to write copy well... do your research to uncover the prospects hot buttons and what your product's selling points & benefits are... and you can write copy in almost any niche you're interested in.

Some of my personal favorites to learn from include Michel Fortin, Clayton Makepeace, Ken Calhoun (not a copywriter for hire but a damn good one nonetheless), John Carlton, Dan Kennedy, and Doug D'Anna.

Best of luck,

Mike

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paulmcp 16 years ago

No such thing as the best copywriter. Who's the best author? Who's the best communicator?

Just talk to the customer as if they were sitting down next to you.

So, don't write - They laughed when I sat down to play the piano on that dark and stormy night.

Instead: Ask a question-

Have you ever had a secret passion to master the piano but always felt you never had the talent or the time?

This will do what you want the headline to do - The reader will either say

Oh, Yes, I have. Or...Nope and they will boot which is ok, they aren't emotionally involved and won't buy anyways -

If they do feel involved, however, the emotional link is there so your sub head should have empathy to continue that emotional involvement.

I too had that passion. For years. But I never could find the time. What with work and blah blah

If the reader is saying - Oh yes, that's me, they'll keep reading.

Just be careful about the assumptions you make - If you start talking about having no time what with taking the kids to soccer practice and long hours on the job and they have no kids and are unemployed ...No More Empathy and Bye Bye!!!!

And don't blow the end - Most marketers feel like they have to sneak in the price and are almost apologetic about it.

Don't sell. Have a conversation. And fill in the who, what, when, where, why, and how.

Who am I - Someone who's was just like you but now better because...
What have I found - I found this great product
What does it do - It fulfilled a void in my life I have had for years.
When did this happen - Less than a year ago, I was just like you
Where did I find this - I was looking ....
Why did I think other people would want this - Because it made my life so much better
How can I change my life and become .... Click the Buy Now Button

And the flow of the copy is just like every movie or play out there

Act One - Setup (In a movie the first twenty minutes or so)
Act Two - The Details (The bulk of the movie or about one hour)
Act Three - The Dilemma or problem or challenge or crisis (short, but a BIG problem)
Act Four - The Resoultion (last twenty minutes - Hero suceeds.)
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Glenn Grundberg

16 years ago

Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys

True. I've met some awesome copywriters who have zero interest in teaching copywriting or becoming known as a copywriting "guru" (whatever that means).

The other thing is, you can reveal everything you know about writing copy for free and 99.9% of the people who read it still won't be able to write as well as you do because they aren't you.

...MIKE HUMPHREYS!

Good answer, dude...

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MisterEThoughts 16 years ago

I think Bob Bly is one of the better ones.
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- MaskedMarketer 16 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by MisterEThoughts
  
  I think Bob Bly is one of the better ones.
  
  Bob Bly is good as are the others. One could learn from each and every one of these copy writers since they all have different styles.
  
  And when you find good copy that you like and want to learn from... Many copywriters will advise you to actually write out the copy word for word so you learn how to write as they do..
  
  Also, although he does not do copy... Kevin Hogan has great information (published books and courses) on persuasion that can be helpful.
  
  He is def. an authority in his field- kevinhogan.com
  
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MichelFortin

16 years ago

Thank you.

My favorites are Gary Halbert and John Carlton, of course. And also, Gary Bencivenga and Clayton Makepeace.

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Reeveso

16 years ago

I completely agree with Dorothy - it's all up to your own personality.

I personally find Clayton Makepeace to be the best copywriter/business person that I can learn from.

However, does that mean he's the best? Of course not. It just means he's the best FOR ME.

I read 99% of copywriters things and they all have incredible stuff 80% of the time...but Clayton seems to have more than incredible stuff 99% of the time.

I also like Michel Fortin, Ben Settle, Ryan Healy, Bencivenga, and all the other greats. You should check them all out and see who fits you the best.

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Raydal 16 years ago

You'll get a different strength and emphasis from different copywriters.
Lots of free resources online that you can whet your appetite with
even before you decide what direction you want to go. At least you
cam read the blogs and free information provided by all those copywriters
to "taste" what they have to offer and then decide.

-Ray Edwards
Copy Coach
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MontelloMarketing 16 years ago

As has been said already... different strokes for different folks. But I have to put my 2 cents in for David Garfinkel.

Not just one of the bigtime, big money copywriting players...

But he is known around the world (by other copywriting gurus as "The World's Greatest Copywriting Coach."

I know... he took me from 6 month newbie to where I am today. And if it wasn't for what I learned with him, I not only wouldn't be making the money I'm making... but I wouldn't have the skills he gave me, to teach it too.
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CopyMonster

16 years ago

Heath,

I know you azzed about the best IM copywriter, but my reply comes at ya from a slightly different angle. Why limit yourself to IM? If you're really looking to sell predominantly info products - any top info marketer will do - usual suspects like Dan Kennedy, Jay Abraham, Bob Serling and many more. As others have mentioned Frank Kern is probably connected with more than a few of the top IM launches over recent years so you could do a lot worse looking at his materials - he doesn't have a copy course though as far as I'm aware. Also if you're a member of the War room on this site, Grandmaster Allen has a few choice observations on selling to the IM market worthy of entry price.

My suggestion if you really want to know how to light up sales figures is to soak up basics/fundamentals about copy structure and sales psychology then study crap the out of salesletters from successful IM products (check out clickbank for top sellers). Look at offer structure, appeals, hooks, headlines, bullets, proof, guarantees, stories - how they grab the reader's attention, tickle their interest, turn up desire and literally force them into action. Compare them against weaker counterparts and half your work is done. The other half being practicing putting together your own until you get it.

Also recommended by many top writers, copy top salesletters out by hand.

If you follow this path I'm guessing you'll be ahead of 80% of the pack in no time.

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Heath Sanchez

16 years ago

Originally Posted by bf68

Heath,

My suggestion if you really want to know how to light up sales figures is to soak up basics/fundamentals about copy structure and sales psychology then study crap the out of salesletters from successful IM products (check out clickbank for top sellers). Look at offer structure, appeals, hooks, headlines, bullets, proof, guarantees, stories - how they grab the reader's attention, tickle their interest, turn up desire and literally force them into action. Compare them against weaker counterparts and half your work is done. The other half being practicing putting together your own until you get it.

Also recommended by many top writers, copy top salesletters out by hand.

If you follow this path I'm guessing you'll be ahead of 80% of the pack in no time.

This has to be some of the best advice ever. So simple, but I have never thought about looking into what copy is already selling. Thanks so much for sharing, and thanks to everyone who has given me a recommendation.

Now, I have a lot of homework to do...

Thanks

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colmodwyer

16 years ago

Yeah,

Copy Doctor is the shit and Fortin certainly does/did a lot of IM.

As far as I know Bob Bly is making a truckload with a ton of little mini-sites and squeeze pages so he might be another fella to check out.

Frank Kern would be another one, I'm pretty sure he's a copwriter first and an internet marketer second (might be wrong though).

I've just signed-up to Craig Garber's (kingofcopy.com) newsletter, again pretty good for IM (e-mails anyway).

Although I think you should just start reading copywriting books right now, if you're starting out then I wouldn't worry too much about the "IM" bit. Most of the fundamentals are immutable anywho.

Colm

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shawnhog

Banned 16 years ago

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AndrewCavanagh 16 years ago

I think everyone knows that Gary Halbert is the best copywriter in the history of the universe (he says so repeatedly on his website so it must be true).

And since he has a website that would make him the best online copywriter in the history of the universe.

All joking aside you really need to learn from multiple copywriters.

They all work in different niches and they all have different styles.

As your copy develops you'll develop your own style too.

The copywriters mentioned above...along with Gary Halbert, Dan Kennedy, Ben Suarez, Eugene Schwartz etc etc ...are all great to study.

And the most important thing you can study is their copy.

Most important of all is to test using the ideas you see in successful copy in your own sales copy.

That's how you learn.

Kindest regards,
Andrew Cavanagh
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Stanley Tang

16 years ago

Tons. In fact, many of which have actually posted in this thread.

Others include Fortin, Carlton, Louviere, Montello, Edwards

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Michael Lee 16 years ago

Here's someone claiming to be "the Greatest Copywriter - Perhaps the Greatest Human Being - Who Ever Walked the Earth"

thecopygod.com
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- Dean Dhuli 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Michael Lee
  
  Here's someone claiming to be "the Greatest Copywriter - Perhaps the Greatest Human Being - Who Ever Walked the Earth"
  
  thecopygod.com
  
  That site was really funny, pardner!
  
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Derekis

16 years ago

Hi guys,

Any idea what are the charges like for the services of these so called "Best Copywriter"?

Been outsourcing my article writings and sales copies to over 18 GAF, Elance, Odesk writers to date and the quality of the articles provided by these freelancers seem to Deteriorate with every article.

Where can I ever find good writers that don’t charge sky high fees.

Please advice.

Many thanks in advance.

Cheers
Derekis

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Elizabeth Southall

15 years ago

I really like John Carleton.... if you ever get a chance to attend one of his "Hot Seat" events in New York, GO! There's usually only spots for 10 people.

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David Raybould

15 years ago

Hi Heath,

If you're looking to learn by studying books and previous works, go for John Carlton, Gary Halbert, Gary Bencivenga, Clayton Makepeace & Dan Kennedy...

Kennedy has some great books on Amazon and they represent pretty excellent value.

If you're looking for a hands on coach, you'll find some great ones right here in the forum...

Vin Montello springs immediately to mind, as he's my mentor...I'd recommend Vin's coaching without hesitation.

Hope that's useful to you buddy.

David

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Mr. Subtle

15 years ago

Who is the GREATEST Internet copywriter? The answer is Jim Sheridan. WHO the F@#K is that you say? Yeah, his name doesn't roll off the lips like the typical answers given here.

Listen, I love and respect MAKEPEACE because he never had a problem going from offline to online. His comish/royalty checks over the past decade and a half prove the guy knows his stuff and gets results.

I also love and respect FORTIN. He was the first online (only) copywriter I stumbled upon years ago when he wrote the copy for Reese's "Traffic Secrets." His copy impressed me so much that I had to research him a bit and found out he ran a chat board. I called his board "home" for a number of years.

Why is Jim Sheridan the best Internet copywriter? He has the sales to back up his copy. And as everyone here knows... that is all that matters.

Ever read his letter "WANTED: Novice Crew to 'Rob' Banks Legally... With An Inside Job!"? That sales letter generated (over) $20,000,000.00 in sales (in less than a year) for Agora. I still get MAJOR WOOD every time I read it.

Name any other Internet writer who has beaten those numbers on a single product? If you can, then you have the new number one Internet copywriter. Until then, all hail the king!

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Ken Strong

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle

Ever read his letter "WANTED: Novice Crew to 'Rob' Banks Legally... With An Inside Job!"? That sales letter generated (over) $20,000,000.00 in sales (in less than a year) for Agora. I still get MAJOR WOOD every time I read it.

This letter is posted at Gary Halbert's newsletter site (posted by his sons):

The Gary Halbert Letter

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David Raybould

15 years ago

Mr Subtle, thanks for turning me on to that letter...

And Ken, thanks a bunch for showing me where I can find it.

Always saw that headline in various swipes, could never find the letter...

Thanks!

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herrick

15 years ago

another one is ted nicholson he went from offline to on line and sold a few billion worth of products.

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MattRobson

15 years ago

Three very well-respected guys that I know of are Gary Halbert, Gary Bencivenga, and John Carleton. These guys are not only known as being the best, but also as great and engaging teachers.

These guys have a lot of material, Halbert also has a series of public letters to his son about how to be a good Direct Marketer and life in general that are interesting to check out.

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Bruce Wedding 15 years ago

YouTube - The Right Stuff in 5 seconds
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J. Smith Adams

15 years ago

Asking this question is a bit like asking "what is the best tasting food?" As you can see, there is no one answer. Copy, like food, is subjective. Its validity is based on results. Find results and then find the copywriter.

J. Smith Adams
Elance Money Secrets

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Adaptive

15 years ago

Heath, here's a great post by Marlon Sanders (one of the greats) about how the greats each have their own style.
http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...tml#post638841

What about YOUR personality could you use to make your own great style? Meanwhile, do any of these examples from Marlon appeal to you as what you'd like to learn?

Regards,
Allen

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davehayes

15 years ago

I Have to say having read all these posts and studying copywriting over the last few years, my faves include those mentioned in this thread as well as Ted Nicholas & Mike Dillard to name but two more.

Incidentally I write my own copy, and its amazing the response a few well written words have on people...Attraction marketing at its best!!

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Adaptive

15 years ago

I forgot about Ted Nicholas, of course I'd have to include him.
I learned about Gary Halbert from tapes of a Ted Nicholas seminar.
Around the same time, I learned about Bill Myers... I think it was from his newsletter that I learned of Ted Nicholas.

All spectacular inspirations!

Mike Dillard is a new name to me, where do I start to learn about him?

Regards,
Allen

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Bruce Wedding 15 years ago

Ted Nicholas?

Take a look at this:

Ted Nicholas Mentor Program
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Best copywriter in the IM world...

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