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Unread 20th December 2009, 04:39 PM   #1
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Default Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

I remember reading a lot of Dan Kennedy's copy writing material in the past.

Is his stuff still regarded as the best, like it used to be? If not, who is the 'go to' person for learning to write good sales letters?

Thanks,

Dan
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Unread 20th December 2009, 07:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

D.K. is without a doubt one of the best copywriters around.

I've not seen a lot of direct praise for his copywriting products.
His stuff on direct marketing is quite good, but as far as the
nuts and bolts of writing sales letters I think you'll find there
are many teachers you'll find teach the topic better.

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Unread 20th December 2009, 07:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Ray View Post
I remember reading a lot of Dan Kennedy's copy writing material in the past.

Is his stuff still regarded as the best, like it used to be? If not, who is the 'go to' person for learning to write good sales letters?

Thanks,

Dan

Dan Kennedy is okay. Sometimes he leaves me in left field with some of the stuff in his courses. His videos have him talking quite a but I find little meat in the offering. I still refer to him though. Can't totally discount Dan.

I have a file for Jay Abraham. I have been his fan for many years. I miss all the great stuff he used to send via snail mail. I kept everything he ever sent to me. Many gems in there.

Bob Bly is worth a look at.

More than anything, I take lessons from a lot of marketing I see that draws me in. If it caught my attention (especially when I wasn't looking for it), and I stopped to read it and thought about buying it, it must be pretty darn good. Goes in my swipe file.

That's my 7 cents.

Oops. I forgot my signature. Catch you next time.
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Unread 21st December 2009, 12:46 AM   #4
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken_Caudill View Post

That'll be $2000.00.
Lol! That's great! I appreciate your input. I'm a big believer in practice...
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Unread 21st December 2009, 12:48 AM   #5
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye View Post
His stuff on direct marketing is quite good, but as far as the
nuts and bolts of writing sales letters I think you'll find there
are many teachers you'll find teach the topic better.
Thanks for your thoughts. Would do you think teaches the subject well?
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Unread 21st December 2009, 12:52 AM   #6
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izesta View Post

More than anything, I take lessons from a lot of marketing I see that draws me in. If it caught my attention (especially when I wasn't looking for it), and I stopped to read it and thought about buying it, it must be pretty darn good. Goes in my swipe file.

That's my 7 cents.
I def agree with that. I try to figure out what it was that drew me in, and how they keep me there. It's always easier to sit back and admire someone elses work, that it is to do it myself...

Thanks for your input.
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Unread 21st December 2009, 04:20 AM   #7
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

Dan Kennedy gets rave reviews, but he's not my favorite. I've learned the most personally from Eben Pagan. His material on bullets and educating the prospective buyer is excellent...

You can always read a Gary Halbert letter. That's always an education in itself.

There are so many great copywriters, why not read them all?

Be unique.
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Unread 21st December 2009, 08:08 AM   #8
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

If you read Gary Halbert's sales letters and swipe files, you'll get quite a good education.

He was one of the greatest copywriters known to man.

Check out his stuff.

Another great is John Carlton. You'll love his approach too.

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Unread 21st December 2009, 09:56 AM   #9
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Ray View Post
Thanks for your thoughts. Would do you think teaches the subject well?
Well, to be a better copywriter you need to work on your skills
in a lot of areas: expressive writing, salesmanship, persuasion
methods... the list is long.

I'm not saying writing copy is the same as writing a great novel,
but effective copy at it's center is effective communication,
a "bridge of understanding" between the seller and the prospect.
As the copywriter you help the reader grasp what the product
will do for him and why he needs it... and also give him reason
to jump at the opportunity to get it.

You can turn one or two books into your copywriting "bibles"
but I have a while bunch of resources I turn to for inspiration
and insight. If you haven't read Collier, Caples, Ogilvy,
Schwab, Schwartz, and Hopkins you're missing out on the
core books of the field though. Read Schwartz last.

Also Sugarman, Drayton Bird, Hershcell Gordon Lewis. Plus
the online resources like Clayton Makepeace, Michel Fortin,
and Gary Halbert.

Big list. You just have to be a student of writing. Read good
writing... sales writing, journalism, fiction - all good writers
are good communicators and thus good to learn from.

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Unread 21st December 2009, 09:59 AM   #10
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

I love me some Dan Kennedy. His book "The Ultimate Sales Letter" is one of my favorite's. I love his examples all throughout the book.

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Unread 23rd December 2009, 11:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

At the bookstore I'll often pick up a Kennedy book and find value in it. Even if it's just reinforcing lessons already learned. I've heard a lot of so-so reviews of his big-ticket products, but I don't think you can go wrong with one of his $20-$30 books.
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Unread 28th December 2009, 12:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

I'm with you, Chris. Dan K is still as relevant as he ever was. But one should ALWAYS be a student of their trade.

I prefer to look in the past as well as the future. Dan even gave the history of copywriting and sales at a recent event and he named a LOT of authors I've got on my shelves.

There are some truths to writing copy that never change with time. Their delivery medium? Sure. But the truths? Never.

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Unread 28th December 2009, 05:41 PM   #13
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

I found Kennedy's $20 - $30 books (as Ross put it) not only a brilliant source of information... but a great lesson on how to inject personality into your writing and make your writing entertaining.

His "No BS Time Management for Entrepreneurs" was one of the most entertaining books I've read in ages.

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Unread 28th December 2009, 06:05 PM   #14
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

For a guy who is something of a grumpy curmudgeon, Kennedy
is one heck of an engaging writer of books. He's got verve to
his style that goes way beyond his sales copy chops... some of
his stuff just sails by, it's so much fun to read. I particularly
enjoyed the book on marketing to the affluent.

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Unread 28th December 2009, 11:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

Dan Kennedy is definitely still relevant. My favorite books of his are The Ultimate Sales Letter and The Ultimate Marketing Plan.

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Unread 29th December 2009, 10:30 PM   #16
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

Good stuff is *always* relevant.

I think these gurus get grumpy (kennedy, gary halbert) because they keep pounding home the same basics, over and over and OVER. And no one gets it. lol.

I'm a big jay abraham fan, he's the guru I've studied most. I was going through one of his seminars this last week. He hits people over the head with the same concepts 100x times, and no one gets it, its amazing.

And its funny, these guys get their information from claude hopkins, eugene schwartz, etc. If people think dan kennedy is out of date, what would they think about claude hopkins from 80 years ago? To say nothing of "lesser" names like albert lasker, max sackheim, elmer wheeler. I think market/sales copywriting is a game where only a handful of people go to the current gurus...(d kennedy, halbert, etc). And only a smaller fraction go the real source, old books from 60-80 years ago. People cant see its the same thing repackaged.

No different than taking an old hoola hoop, repackaging it, and calling it now days, a hip rotator or something.
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Unread 29th December 2009, 10:41 PM   #17
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

geeting old to me
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Unread 29th December 2009, 10:54 PM   #18
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

DK is still relevant. His copywriting and marketing resources have helped build my businesses. Like he said, "Good time tested sales and sales letter strategies do not wear out or become obsolete"

Learn your history to know your future

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Unread 31st December 2009, 06:17 PM   #19
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

There's good stuff out there as mentioned earlier. Dan's print material is still relevant for specific types of marketing. But since he's gone to the dark side and Bill took over I'd stick with his older stuff. I haven't been impressed with the B team events as yet. Possibly in the future. GL
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Unread 5th January 2010, 11:24 AM   #20
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

To me Dan Kennedy is as relevant today as he ever was.

I've probably got most of what he's created over the last 20 years. Admittedly some of it is a bit derivative from his earlier works, but that's understandable - the guy's prolific!

While not about copywriting, his book, "My Unfinished Business" is a fascinating look at how Kennedy thinks and the motivations/actions leading to his successful business.
I'd recommend it to any serious marketer.
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Unread 1st February 2010, 08:03 AM   #21
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

Of course Dan Kennedy's material is relevant.

Looking to write a sales letter... practice copying by hand and keyboard the type of sales letters you want to emulate or for the market you are pursuing.

Gary Halbert recommended using the top rag mags to copy to learn quickly and how to pickup speed and accuracy in saying things directly.

Like any practicing writer just copy the writers you want to write like.

John Carlton readily said he wrote and copied and wrote and copied thousands of pages and people would tell him they would do anything to write like him... his answer, no you wouldn't. (otherwise they would have done the same thing he did.

If you want Mark Joyner style check Maria Veloso.

Ray Edwards stuff in his emails and letters, and Yanik Silvers stuff works along with Brian Keith Voiles...

Rosser Reeves, Robert Collier (considered by many to have the sales letter bible), etc...

Buy all the courses if you want formats and checklists... otherwise just write, write, write.

Good luck
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Unread 1st February 2010, 08:59 AM   #22
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

One thing you can say about Dan is that he sticks to the basics.
His Ultimate Sales Letter book is a great introduction to copywriting
but not all there is on the subject. But again, it provides the
basics which many copywriters often miss.

Kennedy provides a lot more information on business and direct
marketing in general and has done wonders for my MINDSET.

After you've read a couple of his books you have read them all
because he is an information marketer at heart and makes
money from selling more books. He teaches and follows the
'rule' of re-using the same information in different ways to
sell more.

-Ray Edwards

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Unread 1st February 2010, 09:34 AM   #23
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

Quote:
Originally Posted by imnet View Post
Rosser Reeves, Robert Collier (considered by many to have the sales letter bible), etc...

Buy all the courses if you want formats and checklists... otherwise just write, write, write.
Makes me think of what Jay Abraham is always saying, and I doubt he is the only one.

"Human are human are human are human."

Meaning if it has been written 50 years ago, and you read it, you will learn something. Take Claude Hopkins, which was written in the 1930s. He goes in lenght that advertisers in his time were saying "Buy the original brand," forgetting to tell the reasons why one should buy the product. Does it ring any bell with any institutional ad campaign.

So yes, Kennedy is still relevant, as is Hopkins, and the other old masters.

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Unread 3rd February 2010, 07:16 PM   #24
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

I just recently got my hands on DKs Magnetic Marketing Tool Kit & Ultimate Sales letter, and I think their still relevant
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Unread 6th February 2010, 02:12 AM   #25
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

Dear Daniel,

Lots of great stuff on the Warrior forum.

I would check out Clayton Makepeace's blog

The Total Package

Lots of free copy writing ideas and tips from seo to blogs to copy.

I use Clayton's emotional and in your face style of copy techniques works the best for me.

Jennie

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Unread 6th February 2010, 06:44 AM   #26
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

Dan Kennedy's material is STILL the best. Best of all subscribe to his IC newsletter, if you run your own business. If you want to lean to write copy, get John Carlon's Simple Writing Systemn at www.simplewritingsystem.com or Clayton Makepeace's 6-Figure Copywriting Course at his www.makepeacetotalpackage.com blog. Click on resources or products. I can'trememer which now.
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Unread 6th February 2010, 09:37 AM   #27
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

Dear Daniel,

Is Dan Kennedy's stuff still relevant? Yes.

Who is your 'go to' person for learning to write good sales letters?
You are. You do not learn by copying, you learn by doing, and you
become a better writer by READING, and by writing.

Your success depends on your attitude towards copy creation,
and it depends on your attitude towards your reader.

I've been writing copy for the best part of 20 years, on line and
off, and it was almost ten years before I wrote an ad that was
worth a light.

I'm often asked by junior writers who they ought to turn to for
copyadvice—just who it is that they ought to emulate. I tell them
all the same thing: don't "copy" anyone. By all means LEARN,
but your voice in writing ought to be your own.

Copywriters I admire include: Bob Bly, Luke Sullivan,
my mentor Neil French; Dan Kennedy, John Carlton, Tim Delaney,
Barbara Noakes, David Ogilvy, and David Abbott.

There's a great book ("The Copywiter's Bible") that was published
by D&ADin 1995 that showcases the work of 32 of the ad world's
best writers. True,it might sound a bit dated now, but if you can
find it, it's worth spending the money on because it tells stories
about the writers AND their writing.

I hope this helps.

Kind regards, —Gary B.
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Unread 6th February 2010, 05:23 PM   #28
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Default Re: Is Dan Kennedy's material still relevant?

Dan is relevant.
In my opinion, his writing is effective because he "personalizes" it. He lets his own personality shine through. His style gives the impression he is sitting down and having a chat with you and answering your question, or telling you what is on his mind. I think that is the best kind of copy, because it keeps a person reading. And isn't that the point? If you stop reading, I've lost you ...unless it is because you've read enough to buy.

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