What Do You Think Of This For An Off The Wall Headline?

39 replies
Finally
A Step By Step System So Foolproof
A Politician Can Do It
#headline #wall
  • Profile picture of the author Ross Dalangin
    Corruption or conspiracy? ;-)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1569772].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Alexander
    Nice... It's to the point. (But I guess it depends on what it's for obviously.) I like it. It put a smile on my face and lit my curiosity.

    And if it does as promised - there's hope for me using the product whatever it is!

    (But would we want a politician doing it? Wouldn't they just do it their own way, tell us to do it a worse way, then tell us it's for our own good all the while making us pay more for it so they can try six more times to get it right - only succeeding to add more steps to your system and charging us the difference?) - Sorry, couldn't resist.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1569777].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Nathan Alexander View Post

      Nice... It's to the point. (But I guess it depends on what it's for obviously.) I like it. It put a smile on my face and lit my curiosity.

      And if it does as promised - there's hope for me using the product whatever it is!

      (But would we want a politician doing it? Wouldn't they just do it their own way, tell us to do it a worse way, then tell us it's for our own good all the while making us pay more for it so they can try six more times to get it right - only succeeding to add more steps to your system and charging us the difference?) - Sorry, couldn't resist.
      Now THAT'S funny.

      Thanks.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1569800].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
    "Finally A Step By Step System So Foolproof A Politician Can Do It"
    Your Headline's emv score:
    30.77%


    "unique easy to use System So Foolproof now any Polly Can Cracker It"
    Your Headline's emv score:
    69.23%

    Not sure if you call them a polly in the states but here we do.
    Signature
    | > Choosing to go off the grid for a while to focus on family, work and life in general. Have a great 2020 < |
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1569867].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

      "Finally A Step By Step System So Foolproof A Politician Can Do It"
      Your Headline's EMV Score:
      30.77%


      "unique easy to use System So Foolproof now any Polly Can Cracker It"
      Your Headline's EMV Score:
      69.23%


      Not sure if you call them a polly in the states but here we do.

      Yeah, Polly won't register with folks in the states.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1569895].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Steve Ranger
    You're right Steve, I have no idea what 'Polly' means.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1570064].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
      Hi Steven,

      While you may want to try it, I submit "politician" is a "loaded" word. And it may not have the implications you intended when you wrote it.

      Stated differently, there are words which when you say them to the right audience, cause them to react.

      I call them "dog whistle words."

      When dog here's hears that "silent" whistle, they have NO CHOICE and their ears perk up, they listen and they respond.

      For instance, in the financial or affluent communities, it's a big deal to be an "accredited investor". "Accredited investor" is a dog whistle word.

      "Politician" is a dog whistle word. Be careful.

      - Rick Duris
      Signature
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1570176].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

        Hi Steven,

        While you may want to try it, I submit "politician" is a "loaded" word. And it may not have the implications you intended when you wrote it.

        Stated differently, there are words which when you say them to the right audience, cause them to react.

        I call them "dog whistle words."

        When dog here's hears that "silent" whistle, they have NO CHOICE and their ears perk up, they listen and they respond.

        For instance, in the financial or affluent communities, it's a big deal to be an "accredited investor". "Accredited investor" is a dog whistle word.

        "Politician" is a dog whistle word. Be careful.

        - Rick Duris

        Rick, I absolutely realized going in that this is a loaded headline.

        I'm trying something different. In fact, the whole copy is going to be
        quite radical.

        Will it bomb? Maybe, but it's for personal use so I'm not too concerned. I
        can always fiddle with it later.

        I'm just sick and tired of the same old same old and want to shock a few
        people without going into Rich Jerk territory, which has been pretty much
        overdone since he came out with his first product several years ago.

        If nothing else...the headline WILL get reactions as it doesn't just sit there.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1570192].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
          Hi Steven,

          Well, that being the case--have a go at it.

          You may get a reaction, but I sincerely doubt you'll get a sale.

          - Rick Duris
          Signature
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1570223].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

            Hi Steven,

            Well, that being the case--have a go at it.

            You may get a reaction, but I sincerely doubt you'll get a sale.

            - Rick Duris
            Rick, I've gotten sales with Stop signs at the top of my sales letter.

            You underestimate me as a marketer.

            Remember, I presell all my products. The sales page could contain a buy
            now button and I'll make sales.

            Of course I'm willing to put a friendly wager on your doubts.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1570228].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          I'm just sick and tired of the same old same old and want to shock a few people without going into Rich Jerk territory
          I'd recommend that instead of trying to shock people, just talk how you talk and it will be shocking enough. People crave authenticity, and if you try, you'll bork it up.
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1570520].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            I'd recommend that instead of trying to shock people, just talk how you talk and it will be shocking enough. People crave authenticity, and if you try, you'll bork it up.
            Possibly, but like I said, I'm not too concerned about this one. It's more of
            a test than anything else. I already know the product sells (without a sales
            page at all) so this is just to see what kind of results I get.

            I'm then going to split test it against my "normal" sales page and see which
            one performs better.

            There is a method to my madness but I'm not going to get into it here. Let's
            just say I'm out to prove that there is more to making sales than just a
            polished sales letter.

            Should be interesting to see how this plays out.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1570563].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              In fact, for this sales letter, I am using zero social proof and zero testimonials.

              I was going to even skip the guarantee but I didn't want to go that far.

              Actually, the social proof is not 100% true.

              There is my name.

              Somebody said Frank Kern could put up a buy now button and send an
              email to his list and make $1 million.

              That's more or less what I'm looking to see...not that I'm expecting $1
              million dollars.

              Like I said, we'll see what happens.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1570576].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Hugh Thyer
                Don't try to be clever with your headlines. You dont want people thinking about dumb politicians instead of your sales letter.
                Signature

                Ever wondered how copywriters work with their clients? I've answered that very question in detail-> www.salescomefirst.com
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1570638].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by Hugh Thyer View Post

                  Don't try to be clever with your headlines. You dont want people thinking about dumb politicians instead of your sales letter.
                  Thanks, I'll remember that for the next sales letter I do.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1570648].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by Steve Ranger View Post

      You're right Steve, I have no idea what 'Polly' means.
      "Polly" reminds me of a hungry parrot craving a cracker, sorry!

      MissTerraK
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1573019].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author tryinhere
        Originally Posted by MissTerraK View Post

        "Polly" reminds me of a hungry parrot craving a cracker, sorry!

        MissTerraK
        arh, sorry a Polly is a term in Australia that can be used as a sub for politician.

        and yes the pun was Polly ( as in politician ) can cracker it, ( in the terms of crack it or make it work ), the double edge or words within words was yes Polly wants a cracker, ( parrot want a biscuit )

        something in the water down here lately i am sure, sorry for the mix up
        Signature
        | > Choosing to go off the grid for a while to focus on family, work and life in general. Have a great 2020 < |
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1573089].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
          Originally Posted by tryinhere View Post

          arh, sorry a Polly is a term in Australia that can be used as a sub for politician.

          and yes the pun was Polly ( as in politician ) can cracker it, ( in the terms of crack it or make it work ), the double edge or words within words was yes Polly wants a cracker, ( parrot want a biscuit )

          something in the water down here lately i am sure, sorry for the mix up
          LOL!

          That's very witty!

          MissTerraK
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1573095].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    So... you're asking our opinion... then completely ignoring us?

    Why ask in the first place?

    Maybe I'm just getting old... but seems like a disrespectful thing to do.

    How would *you* feel if someone wrote a crappy article... asked you for advice... then basically said "well, I don't care, I'm doing it like this anyway!"?

    -Dan
    Signature

    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1573003].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MissTerraK
      Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

      So... you're asking our opinion... then completely ignoring us?

      Why ask in the first place?

      Maybe I'm just getting old... but seems like a disrespectful thing to do.

      How would *you* feel if someone wrote a crappy article... asked you for advice... then basically said "well, I don't care, I'm doing it like this anyway!"?

      -Dan
      I disagree, he said he was doing it for testing purposes. In order for a marketer to be successful, he has to test.

      I'm confident he has enough competency to follow through with his results.

      Why is it that so many marketers don't like out of the box and prefer boring same old, same old?:confused:

      More of the same does not bring change!

      MissTerrak
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1573039].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author AnneE
      Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

      So... you're asking our opinion... then completely ignoring us?

      Why ask in the first place?

      Maybe I'm just getting old... but seems like a disrespectful thing to do.

      How would *you* feel if someone wrote a crappy article... asked you for advice... then basically said "well, I don't care, I'm doing it like this anyway!"?

      -Dan
      Well I am definitely NOT getting old, but I see your point. However maybe Steve's next sales page is one with a headline

      They told me my headlines were all wrong... but they converted at 25%

      Discover Steve's Secret Headline Success


      and he was just setting us up.

      I liked the first two lines of Steve's headline, but the Politician was not what I was expecting and it made me pause and think, really? a Politician?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1573050].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
    Finally
    A Step By Step System So Foolproof
    A Politician Can Do It
    I like this ...

    "Finally... A Step-By-Step System So Foolproof
    A 10-Year-Old Child Can Do It!"

    Alex
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1573132].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      First off, thank you all for your feedback. I am not ignoring it.

      As Miss Terra said, I am testing something out.

      I think I have been marketing long enough (7 years) to know what I'm
      doing and realize the potentials and pitfalls of this headline.

      With a steady income coming in daily, I can afford to do stupid things. And
      if this is one of those stupid things, that's good too.

      The only way we really find out what works and what doesn't work is
      by testing.

      I asked what people thought about the headline to get feedback...not to
      change my mind about using it.

      Believe it or not, as a marketer, it's okay to try something out even if
      everybody who you present it to thinks it sucks.

      Otherwise, we're just all doing the same old same old and nobody really
      gets anywhere...at least nowhere new.

      When I made my first sales letter with a stop sign at the top of the page,
      everybody thought I was nuts.

      200 sales a month for a year later, I was the one laughing to the bank.

      Contrary to popular opinion, just because you're an expert copywriter
      at 20K a pop with clients that read like a who's who of marketing, doesn't mean you have all the answers.

      My stupid little stop sign was living proof of that.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1573300].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Kelby
    FINALLY A System So Foolproof
    even a politician has a chance.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1575118].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Hey... believe me... I get the whole "testing wacky stuff" thing.

    What I don't get is why you'd ask us for our opinion when you're going to ignore it anyway.

    If you "knew the potential pitfalls" of such a headline... and are going to test it regardless... why ask us?

    Why not just test it, and then if it works, go "hey guys... check out this crazy headline that converted like gangbusters!"

    Feedback is pointless if you're not going to take it on board.

    And Steve... maybe I'm reading things that aren't there... but I don't appreciate the condescending attitude.

    I'm the first to admit I don't know everything... but my gut is *usually* right about copy.

    So my point is not that you shouldn't try things that are "radical"... it's that I can't see the point in asking for feedback that you're going to ignore regardless.

    -Dan
    Signature

    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1575499].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

      Hey... believe me... I get the whole "testing wacky stuff" thing.

      What I don't get is why you'd ask us for our opinion when you're going to ignore it anyway.

      If you "knew the potential pitfalls" of such a headline... and are going to test it regardless... why ask us?

      Why not just test it, and then if it works, go "hey guys... check out this crazy headline that converted like gangbusters!"

      Feedback is pointless if you're not going to take it on board.

      And Steve... maybe I'm reading things that aren't there... but I don't appreciate the condescending attitude.

      I'm the first to admit I don't know everything... but my gut is *usually* right about copy.

      So my point is not that you shouldn't try things that are "radical"... it's that I can't see the point in asking for feedback that you're going to ignore regardless.

      -Dan

      Dan, let me ask you a question, and I'm being very serious about this.

      Can't somebody ask an opinion about something just because?

      Let's say I bring you into my home to see a painting I bought. I ask you.

      "What do you think of it?"

      You say, "I think it's ugly."

      Am I supposed to get rid of it because you don't like it?

      I simply wanted to know what you thought of it...no hidden agenda and
      no ulterior motive.

      There is no law that says when somebody asks for an opinion on something
      that they have to take that opinion and do something with it. Not all
      opinions asked are for that purpose.

      Your saying that I shouldn't have asked what people thought if I wasn't
      going to take the advice and do something with it isn't fair and I personally
      find that just as condescending if not downright rude.

      That would be like you telling me to take my painting and throwing it in
      the trash and then when I say no, telling me that I shouldn't have asked.

      But you know what? I respect your feelings on the subject. If you feel
      that when people ask for opinions that they MUST take those opinions to
      heart or NOT ask them at all, fine.

      I equally expect you to respect MY right just to ask for an opinion for no
      reason at all other than just to ask.

      Was that a qualifier I should have included in my initial post, that I wasn't
      going to do anything either way, and if so, would you not have given
      your opinion had I done that?

      If so, then I'm sorry I wasted your time. For that I apologize. In the future
      you now know that the next time I ask for an opinion on something, not
      to answer as you know that I'm just asking for no reason at all.

      But I find it very rude to be called disrespectful just because my reasons
      for asking didn't measure up to YOUR expectations.

      Read the original thread Dan.

      It was simple and to the point.

      "What Do You Think Of This For An Off The Wall Headline?"

      And then I posted the headline.

      I said nothing else. I didn't say I was using for a client or me or anything
      else. I just asked what people thought of it.

      You automatically assumed that I was asking because I was going to
      use it for a sales page of mine or a clients and was asking for validation
      that it was okay, and if I didn't get that validation, I would then scrap it.

      Don't you think that's expecting an awful lot?

      This is my biggest pet peeve with people when you don't react the way
      they expect and then when you don't, they call you rude, disrespectful
      and a whole lot of other names that I can't even print in a public forum.

      To me...that is the most rude and disrespectful thing of all.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1575606].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    For what it's worth... I quite like it... because I have a particular contempt for quite a large proportion of politicians

    I actually think it has a CURIOSITY factor which will make people read beyond it just because they're thinking, "Huh... a POLITICIAN?"

    A famous copywriter said that the purpose of the headline was to get them to read the next line - I'm paraphrasing, I know... but I for one would be curious as to what comes next.

    Kudos also for having the balls for being different. When everyone who tries to get your attention wears a suit, you pay attention to the one standing there naked.

    That should be a Zen maxim
    Signature
    PresellContent.com - How to sell without "selling"
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1575700].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    To be fair, maybe you should limit it to "Wall Street" Banker... not ALL bankers are capable of losing trillions of dollars and bankrupting countries
    Signature
    PresellContent.com - How to sell without "selling"
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1575832].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Just for the record, I chose the headline I did because it is a known fact
      that politicians can't get anything right. If you have doubts, just take a look
      at the state of the world.

      Yes, I know it's a loaded headline and some people might actually find it
      offensive if they have any attachment to anybody in politics. There is, as
      they say, a lot of buckshot in that headline.

      And that's what I'm looking for.

      Hey, if it totally bombs, I still have my other 50 products that I sell on a
      daily basis to keep me warm at night.

      I can then change it or say screw it.

      That's the advantage of not being a newb. You don't have to do the "right"
      thing. You can goof around. You can take crazy chances.

      I'm past that stage where I have to sweat over every word that comes
      out of my mouth and onto a sales page.

      Would I write this for a client?

      Not if I want to have any chance of getting another one, and I know it.

      But like I said, I'm throwing all caution to the wind (you should see the rest
      of the copy if you think THIS is bad) and saying, "Hell with it!"

      Whatever is...is.

      Like I said...I ain't no newb.

      So if I wanna write like one...that's entirely MY choice.

      Sink or swim.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1575874].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author matthewd
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Just for the record, I chose the headline I did because it is a known fact
        that politicians can't get anything right.
        There are the rare few that do

        I intend to add my name to the list of the rare few someday.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1576055].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    Hey Steven... well, I think it would be hard to get offended by the headline (unless you're actually a politician), because it's sufficiently AMBIGUOUS... it's not like you're naming specific politicians.

    Now THAT could get the blood boiling, depending on which politician you mentioned, and your target audience.

    Anyway, it's great when you can get to the point where you can just test stuff out... and get really creative. I suspect that not a few of the most successful sales letters were actually the copywriter going, "Blow it... let's just see if THIS works..."

    When it works, it becomes part of the "canon" of conventional copywriting wisdom... we it blows, you don't hear about it.

    I can guarantee that if your radical approach works, it will be hailed as self-evidently good
    Signature
    PresellContent.com - How to sell without "selling"
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1575896].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author freefor15.com
    I wouldn't respond to it. As soon as I hear politician I am instantly turned off but the polly can cracker it is much better. Just my opinion though.

    i associate politicians with lies and usually not good things so it turns me off when I hear that word
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1582241].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author rock2242
    Hey its my first post... im excited hah, anyways got about midway through this thread and felt the need to comment. Steven I think its GREAT that you have the ambition to think outside of the box, and hope that you don't let some of these people (who think you won't get a sale) change your way of thinking.

    Your headline is creative, not sure how I feel about the word 'politician' but I see what your going for. Might be a good idea to think of some other names to sub in there and ask for some feedback. I mean look at geicos slogan... even though they have a huge advs working for them (budget/pro commercials) look how great that campaign is doing. And how many people do you think thought that was a great idea at first? Anyways good luck to you man stay creative.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1590308].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Ronak Shah
    I liked the way you thought about getting an out of the box headline.

    I really think folks must experiment by putting headlines that make people STOP and think about it for a second!

    I think it's a witty headline that draws attention from the crowd. I think you got it right! Love ya..
    Signature
    I AM YOUR Direct Response Ninja Kick-Ass Sales Copywriter.

    Now, Here's The REAL DEAL:
    Either I make YOU at least 10 times of what I charge YOU OR
    I'll Write YOUR Sales Copy AGAIN Till YOU Make MUCH MORE Than THAT. Guaranteed*.
    *Terms & Conditions Apply. Email me at ronak[at]ronakshah[dot]name right now.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[1592037].message }}

Trending Topics