Whats the best way to study Copy?

23 replies
Hey can anyone tell me the best and most effective way to study copy?

I have read plenty of pieces of work looked at Thousands of Headlines and still I'm not entirely clear as to what I'm searching for when I review the information.
#copy #study
  • Profile picture of the author kfk2003
    What are you studying the copy for? What's your end goal?

    The most common method is just to copy it out, by hand. This should help embed the flow, style and language used in top notch writing.
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    • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
      Come on, andrew. that's not entirely true. While hand copying is a great exercise for embedding the feel of the copy, by itself it's not really a method of learning. It's just just part of the equation.

      The real answer is read a lot of great copy... study some great books. AND then hand copy some letters.

      Originally Posted by kfk2003 View Post

      What are you studying the copy for? What's your end goal?

      The most common method is just to copy it out, by hand. This should help embed the flow, style and language used in top notch writing.
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      • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
        Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

        Come on, andrew. that's not entirely true. While hand copying is a great exercise for embedding the feel of the copy, by itself it's not really a method of learning. It's just just part of the equation.

        The real answer is read a lot of great copy... study some great books. AND then hand copy some letters.
        You got there before me.

        Most people don't seem to realise that, to understand what's going on in copy, you need to know what you're looking for.

        And to know what you're looking for you need to study - not just copy, but books which explain the rules.

        The, when you write copy - and you do need to - you need to get someone to critique it to show where you're going wrong, what you're doing right, etc.
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  • Profile picture of the author chonji36
    Hi yes I do copy copy and I completely understand how to construct a piece of copy but what I really need to understand is what makes some copy pull a million
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  • Profile picture of the author chonji36
    Would you subscribe to following just one truly great copywriter and repeatedly copying his letters over and over again say someone like Ted Nicholas how many times have you copied just one peice?
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    • Profile picture of the author kfk2003
      Originally Posted by chonji36 View Post

      Hi yes I do copy copy and I completely understand how to construct a piece of copy but what I really need to understand is what makes some copy pull a million
      For a winning promotion a piece of copy has to be perfectly in-tune with the target market. And this will vary from market to market and product to product. Rather than just learning a structure you need to learn the principles behind it.

      Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

      Come on, andrew. that's not entirely true. While hand copying is a great exercise for embedding the feel of the copy, by itself it's not really a method of learning. It's just just part of the equation.

      The real answer is read a lot of great copy... study some great books. AND then hand copy some letters.
      Sorry, I took the OP to mean studying examples of copy rather than the art of copywriting.

      Originally Posted by chonji36 View Post

      Would you subscribe to following just one truly great copywriter and repeatedly copying his letters over and over again say someone like Ted Nicholas how many times have you copied just one peice?
      Personally I picked John Carlton's martial arts letters to use as I'm a fan of him and a martial artist. I'd suggest picking someone relatively successful with a style you like and stick to their ads to get you going. I've only ever copied anything out once but at some point I might go back and start again.
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  • Profile picture of the author chonji36
    Hi explain that to me again in a little greater depth if you please thats the type of nugget i'm looking for something that will make me better!
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  • Profile picture of the author Stephen Dean
    Here's a list of some of the best books to read. Some are cheap and fantastic. Some are expensive and worth it.

    Amazon.com: Must Have Copywriting Books - Most Halbert Recommended

    Cheers,
    Stephen Dean
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  • Profile picture of the author markbyrne
    I have always been a follower of 'what works on me, probably works on others'.

    When I read a piece of good copy, and I feel that I am buying into their flow, I smile and take notes. I am a natural skeptic, so if copy really makes me sit up, then I know it's good.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    There are many pieces to the copywriting puzzle. Copywriters are often responsible for pushing certain emotional hot buttons to get a reader to take action. A really good exercise is to work on learning to effectively push those buttons.


    The words that follow are better known as The Seven Deadly Sins. They also happen to be some powerful hot buttons for smart copywriters. A great exercise you can do to get good at persuasion is to write several hundred words to evoke these emotions in a person.
    • Pride
    • Greed
    • Envy
    • Anger
    • Lust
    • Gluttony
    • Sloth or Laziness
    Set it up any way you want and then write it out. For example, start with pride and write something that would appeal to an individual's need to feel proud. You might want to describe how he or she would feel with a new Mercedes or with a beautiful woman at his side. Create your own sales scenario and then write to push that button.

    When you're finished get someone to read it and comment on whether you hit the mark. If you haven't, do it again and keep at it until you get it right. After a while it will become second nature. Keep practicing with each of the 'sins' and before long you'll be really good at pushing persuasion buttons. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jennie Heckel
    Dear Chonji36:

    When new copywriters contact me I suggest this as the fastest way and low cost, just uses your time and some paper and pen.

    This is how you can see what is selling, how well and how to copy it (not steal it) just review great selling sales letters that are SELLING NOW~!

    1. Go to Clickbank.
    2. Create an account
    3. Read How to Review Gravity, and Clickbank Stats terms
    4. Find the keywords for your market, for your products you want to write about
    5. Plug them into Clickbank's search box, hit the button to search
    6. Review the top 10 sales letters by: Gravity, Popularity, Highest Sales, etc.
    7. Print out the best sellers that appeal to you
    8. Write out these sales letters in long hand, or type them to soak the copy into your head, the old timer's used to rewrite a sales letter 4 times.
    9. Take ahighligher and see if you can find the places in the sales letter where they were getting the sale... like "as you read on" or "when you click to order" etc. This is subliminal copy...see if you can find where they are subconsciously pushing the sale.
    10. Split the copy up into it's parts, intro, problem, product, benefits, guarantee, bonus, close, P.S. learn how to find these parts.

    There is your 10 point list for writing copy, don't plagerize but rewrite your product copy looking at the Clickbank sales copy and plug in your own product. You will be surprised at how well you can write.

    AND WHEN YOU GET SOME PRACTICE IN, NOW START WRITING FROM SCRATCH...and see how well you can do, then bring it back to the Warrior forum for help with the editing.

    Good luck,

    Jennie
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    • Profile picture of the author hayman
      Originally Posted by Jennie Heckel View Post

      Dear Chonji36:

      When new copywriters contact me I suggest this as the fastest way and low cost, just uses your time and some paper and pen.

      This is how you can see what is selling, how well and how to copy it (not steal it) just review great selling sales letters that are SELLING NOW~!

      1. Go to Clickbank.
      2. Create an account
      3. Read How to Review Gravity, and Clickbank Stats terms
      4. Find the keywords for your market, for your products you want to write about
      5. Plug them into Clickbank's search box, hit the button to search
      6. Review the top 10 sales letters by: Gravity, Popularity, Highest Sales, etc.
      7. Print out the best sellers that appeal to you
      8. Write out these sales letters in long hand, or type them to soak the copy into your head, the old timer's used to rewrite a sales letter 4 times.
      9. Take ahighligher and see if you can find the places in the sales letter where they were getting the sale... like "as you read on" or "when you click to order" etc. This is subliminal copy...see if you can find where they are subconsciously pushing the sale.
      10. Split the copy up into it's parts, intro, problem, product, benefits, guarantee, bonus, close, P.S. learn how to find these parts.

      There is your 10 point list for writing copy, don't plagerize but rewrite your product copy looking at the Clickbank sales copy and plug in your own product. You will be surprised at how well you can write.

      AND WHEN YOU GET SOME PRACTICE IN, NOW START WRITING FROM SCRATCH...and see how well you can do, then bring it back to the Warrior forum for help with the editing.

      Good luck,

      Jennie
      I just want to say that you have done a great job explaining stuff to the needy. Thank you so much
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  • Profile picture of the author Stephen Dean
    That's great advice, Jennie. I use Clickbank's gravity the same way when preparing for projects. Cheers!

    Stephen
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    • Profile picture of the author chonji36
      Hi thanks that's a great tip for finding out what's current right now!
      I will definitley be crawling clickbank for copy Ideas to swipe thanks.
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  • Profile picture of the author trafficsense
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Clickbank gravity is NOT a complete indicator of a well-written sales letter.

      There are some Clickbank products with a well-written or high converting salesletter but gravity is NOT a true indicator of that.

      If a product is offering a huge affiliate commission, then it will get a lot of traffic thrown it's way.

      Fat Loss 4 Idiots has been a top-seller in Clickbank since 2004... has hundreds of Clickbank affiliates because it has a 75% affiliate payout. The sales letter has converted on average around 0.5% the whole time.

      That hardly qualifies as a well-written or high converting sales letter.

      The best way is to study either the classic copywriting books or top-rated courses. Once you have a basic understanding of copywriting, then you have a much better idea of what is a well-written salesletter and what is not.

      The most effective way to study to learn copy is through mentoring. Mentoring is NOT cheap but being trained by a veteran copywriter will flatten your learning curve and help you overcome many of the rookie mistakes that can be made with writing copy or promoting yourself as a copywriter.

      If you decide on the mentoring route, then do a search in this forum as the topic has been discussed elsewhere and I do not want to derail this thread.

      Hope that helps,

      Mike
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      • Profile picture of the author chonji36
        Thanks mike you make some valid points about the Clickbank method, and I absolutley agree that you have to reference old traditional copymasters to learn the basics of the art.

        I think that studying classic pieces that have produced exceptional results is the only way to fully understand what works and then practice.
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        • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
          Hi chonji36,

          Mike is absolutely correct.

          Not only that, some marketers have learned how to manipulate the index in "not very level playing field" ways. Although by and large, from a copywriting perspective, you'll get a feeling when you study what's working.

          Over all, these winning sales pages are definitely an indicator of "what's working now" for folks.

          Good luck and best of success,

          - Rick
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          • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
            Hi chonji36,

            In addition, Vin is absolutely accurate.

            I take it a little bit to the extreme. I also read romance novels. [blush]

            Not every day, but once in a while. But trust me while I have highlighted, I have never written out one long hand.

            They have the descriptive element, a passion, a emotionality that capitvates the reader. It's worth attempting to emulate as a copywriter, but in a different way.

            If that's a bit too weird, reading good fiction by folks like Stephen King and Dan Brown is good because their goal as well as yours, is to convey a point and do it the most clear, descriptive, compelling way. They like you, implicitly want to sell people on reading the next sentence. And the next. And the next.

            And they have it even harder. They can't do subheads, so that people can get away with skimming/scanning.

            I know, I know, some of this sounds weird/off the wall. It's not for everybody.

            You asked and it's what works for me.

            Best,

            - Rick Duris
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  • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
    This tool works best if you copy it in your own handwriting. It is called a PictoGrigm, this one is the PictoGrigm of Persuasion.

    Pictogrigm Of Persuasion

    It is the place to start with gathering the information you need to begin to write your copy.

    Here is how it works:

    Grab a blank piece of paper, turn to landscape, fold in half and draw a line down the middle. YOU are on the left, your TARGET is on the right. This is the person you are trying to persuade.

    You will find it useful in copywriting to know everything you can about the person you are writing the copy for. The stick figure on the right is remote from you. The line down the middle represents this "veil" or curtain. Face to face persuasion is a different animal, you can use much more "salesmanship" or persuasion technique.

    In remote situations, you have to work through THEIR brain. You are providing a stimulus and you want a certain response, so you have to know their world, at least some part of it that is going to be the target of your attempt.

    Your target lives in their own little world, an igloo of their own life, a bubble of preoccupation. Your target does not wake up in the morning wondering about what YOU are going to offer. You must break into their world. You must get her attention.

    This is done by throwing a brick through the curtain and into their bubble, and knock them on the head...usually done with your headline, graphic, layout or a combination of ATTENTION grabbers. Your first job is to get their attention.

    The target is making her way down her path, or track of life. She has things on her mind, as represented by the pyramid above her head. She is thinking about a whole bunch of stuff, and none of them are about our terrific product or service.

    The media you use is the INTERSECTION of their life track and your copy. It is the intersection of your knowledge and their desire. The more you know and the more you know about their desires, the better this collision is going to favor you.

    Most of your copy is going to be a call to action, and much of that is going to be a call to exchange money. You see the dollar sign she holds inside her igloo. It is your job to make her WANT to give that money to someone else, to send that money through the curtain in exchange for SOMETHING that is going to make her life better in some way.

    Your copy is going to give her the reasons for wanting to make this transaction (or in non monetary, or non selling copy to RESPOND).

    The starting point to your copy should be IMO, how can I help her get this to better her life. What can she read that will resonate with her desires and how can I intersect her at the right time.

    Timing is the unknown, albeit, very important factor in the effectiveness of your copy.

    I think the rest of the PictoGrigm is self explanatory, but it may be a tad bit cryptic for you.

    If you take the time to create your own PictoGrigm, it will go a long way to help with your studies of copy, persuasion, influence and salesmanship.

    I'll be glad to answer any questions you may have about the PictoGrigm of Persuasion.

    The "other" answer to the question of how to study or what...is start by studying human nature, human behavior and understand why and how people react or respond to stimulus.

    gjabiz
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    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
      One more thing and I'll shut up on this thread.

      Last year, I went to film school. If anybody's interested, PM me. And I'll share what I did.

      Changed my life as a copywriter.

      Stories, stories, stories.

      Things that tug your heart strings and give you emotional whiplash. A roller coaster ride.

      - Rick Duris
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    You learn copy like any other skill: you study to get information and
    you apply what you learn by actually doing it. You'll be surprised how
    little you know once you move from the books and seminars to
    actually writing the copy yourself.

    Study the best books, read the masters of the trade, but nothing
    beats writing actual letters and then TEST them and get them
    critiqued by other copywriters. A book or seminar of tapes
    cannot SHOW you where you are going wrong. That's why
    Mike suggested a mentor.

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Rebecca108
    Although I've written professionally off and on for the past 15 years, when I wrote my own ebook I bombed trying to write my own sales copy. I tried to write my own sales letter a couple of times and got a .5% conversion! People loved the book, though when they bought it! So then I took a huge risk and spent $3500 for a professional copywriter and it still only got about a 1% conversion rate!:confused: So finally, I rewrote it again myself and this time I got a 5% conversion rate!

    So here's what worked for me:

    1. I found the best-selling ebook in my general niche (a health problem, but not the same as mine) and I just broke it down -- where they put a headline, I put my headline, where they put a list of benefits, I put my list of benefits, where they put a testimonial, I put a testimonial, etc. etc. I didn't plagiarize at all but having a structure to follow was incredibly helpful.
    2. I also watched free videos online from Jay Abraham and John Carlton. Those were really super helpful as it kind of helped me to understand the way copywriters think. When I was just reading stuff, I couldn't really get the copywriter voice in my head. But when I actually watched the videos, it all started to click together.

    Just I thought it would put this out there in case it might be helpful.
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    • Profile picture of the author chonji36
      Thanks Renne,

      For the inspiring words. I was just looking to see how others learned the art. and wether I was doing the right things.

      And the answer I have recieved here is a resounding yes I am doing things right! Oh and not to worry about the thickness of the skin I am my own worst critic believe me.

      But hey thanks!

      Peice out.
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