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does my copy really suck that bad? Could you review?

by VeitSchenk
16 replies
Hey there,

my first foray into the copywriting forum
(muster courage, must be strong...)

could you be so kind and do the dirty deed
with this (which has rather sucky conversions...):

http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ters-sell.html

I'd really appreciate your suggestions
(yes, flameproof suit is on)

Cheers

Veit
#bad #copy #review
  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    Ummm. Why aren't you using a video?
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    • Profile picture of the author VeitSchenk
      in the past I did everything with video and constantly had people complain that they didn't load fast enough, they had to rewind.... (despite me using S3??)

      I hear you, if you're selling a "video" course, use video;-)

      apart from that, I'd really appreciate any comments

      (here's why: those who see my videos apparently really like
      them, tell me how natural it all appears.

      but when I write, something odd seems to happen in my
      brain, just no connection, ...)

      so, as they normally just buzz off w/o telling my it sucks,
      I'd love to hear what specifically needs to be improved.

      Cheers

      Veit

      Originally Posted by Loren Woirhaye View Post

      Ummm. Why aren't you using a video?
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
        Originally Posted by VeitSchenk View Post

        in the past I did everything with video and constantly had people complain that they didn't load fast enough, they had to rewind.... (despite me using S3??)

        I hear you, if you're selling a "video" course, use video;-)

        apart from that, I'd really appreciate any comments

        (here's why: those who see my videos apparently really like
        them, tell me how natural it all appears.

        but when I write, something odd seems to happen in my
        brain, just no connection, ...)

        so, as they normally just buzz off w/o telling my it sucks,
        I'd love to hear what specifically needs to be improved.

        Cheers

        Veit
        If your Kick Ass Video Sales Letters sell... use them.

        You'll always get some complaints.

        If they don't sell... you shouldn't be selling the course.

        Seems pretty cut-and-dried to me.

        -Dan
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        Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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        • Profile picture of the author John_S
          in the past I did everything with video and constantly had people complain that they didn't load fast enough, they had to rewind.... (despite me using S3??)
          If they don't sell... you shouldn't be selling the course.
          The operation was a success, but the patient died. It's small technicalities like that giving Toyota problems now.

          What you need to be doing is figure out ways the maximum number of people get the sales message, even when they can't view the video. Seems you haven't given this problem much thought, and you should before you sell it.

          (here's why: those who see my videos apparently really like
          them, tell me how natural it all appears.
          Okay, but do they sell the product? People will frequently try to be nice, to make up for the fact they aren't buying. Discount platitudes without checks.

          What happened to videos ...that sell? Big omission. Seems like you're so challenged by the most primitive mechanics of getting the video to run there's little room for the purpose the video is meant to achieve.

          One letter I once got was genuine hate mail -- it came with a check and post-it note requesting (demanding, actually) rush delivery. I much prefer that kind of hate mail to any vapid praise.

          What people say hardly matches what they do.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    Okay, this page is a mess. Your headline is weak and may or may not be true. You need to qualify it by at least mentioning why the long-copy letter is on the way out. Then make your case for video copy before sticking a testimonial in your reader's face. At this early point they have no idea what you've got so get your main benefits out there first.

    Create an appeal that has a logical progression. Lots of people would love to be able to create video sales pitches but don't know how. And you aren't helping them at all. Think problem, solution. The problem is likely that people don't like reading long sales pages. The solution is the video pitch. Let your appeal unfold along those lines.

    Another thing that's hurting you a lot is your amateurish formatting. The layout sucks. Create a stylish page in HTML. Put your testimonials in small, shaded tables. Lay this offer out professionally and you'll start to see some action.

    One other thing. I'd go with Kick Ass and not the wimpy asterisks. Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author Moolah_Copywriting
    I'm wondering about that headline of yours...
    The problem I see is that it doesn't promise to solve a problem. It's just a statement (an overused one at that).

    I always start salesletters with the premise that the human brain is a goal-seeking, problem-solving machine. It's constantly looking for answers to problems. Your headline - to be noticed - must hint at an answer. So for me, I would be looking for the reason why my great salesletter is converting less and less visitors into customers. In this case, your course is an answer.

    Stan
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  • Profile picture of the author VeitSchenk
    travlinguy and Stan, excellent, thank you very much for your
    input - I really (I mean: really) appreciate it.

    It's late over here and time to attend to family, but I'll have your
    suggestions in there by Monday night (ready for second pass through WSO
    section...)

    thanks again, have a wonderful weekend

    Veit
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  • Profile picture of the author AngieRammer
    "Does my copy suck" is more-or-less a rhetorical question.

    The annals of copywriting do contain some surprising successes.

    And copywriters are notoriously unsuccessful at predicting
    "which ad sold best." Gary Bencivenga, in his retirement seminar,
    with a room full (100) of top marketers and copywriters (the seminar
    cost $5000) -- ran tests that proved exactly that point.

    That said, there are some principles that are codified and people
    bat them around in copywriting forums like crumbled up papers
    aimed at wastebaskets. Often, many just know the platitude, and
    don't really understand why the platitudes exist, thus creating
    ill-fitting letters -- even though "the principles are right!"

    Even the platitude of "testing" frequently fails, as few really understand
    the idiosyncrasies of testing, and even less about statistics and
    confidence levels. (The book "Landing Page Optimization" splashes
    cold water on many folks' ideas of what it takes to test successfully.)

    edited to add:
    Oh man, that sounds like I wrote that as an article to spam the forum.
    Not so! I guess I forgot to bring it around to the summation, which is
    to find the right question: how do I get my copy to make me money?

    Much Respect,

    Angie
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  • Profile picture of the author TheGraduate
    I agree with you, but do not expect most copywriters to do the same, or even to compliment you on your copy. You state true facts which most copywriters do not even want to hear about, go to transparentplayer(d)c website, you will see how that guy pitches his product without you even having to read one line of his copy
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    amazing product coming soon!
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    • Profile picture of the author AngieRammer
      Originally Posted by TheGraduate View Post

      I agree with you, but do not expect most copywriters to do the same, or even to compliment you on your copy. You state true facts which most copywriters do not even want to hear about, go to transparentplayer(d)c website, you will see how that guy pitches his product without you even having to read one line of his copy
      Well, either I went to the wrong site, or the site has changed.
      I saw nothing BUT copy. Maybe it has something to do with my browser
      configuration.

      edited to add:
      yep, browser configuration. Josh does good stuff.
      Demos are definitely powerful convincers.

      Much Respect,

      Angie
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  • Profile picture of the author bigdaddy99
    I noticed a typo on your image - fastast should be fastest...

    bd99
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    I really thought this was a joke. No video? WTF?
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    • Profile picture of the author VeitSchenk
      WTF? Here's TF:

      I claim that video outdoes long copy, right?
      well, the best way is to TEST and then give the results.

      If I only did video and never let it go head to head with
      long copy, then once again it's one of those empty
      promises you can't really verify.

      so, the first round was long-copy (which isn't very
      good, as -- like I've said, I'm not very good at writing
      long copy... which is why I asked for help in this thread
      in the first place), the next one is video.

      so, no, it's not a joke, it's just taking seriously what I
      say in the course and actually do it (yes, I tell them
      to actually TEST the effectiveness of their videos)

      now that the conversion rate for the long-copy version
      has stabilised, it's time to do the video one.

      Cheers

      Veit

      Originally Posted by Metronicity View Post

      I really thought this was a joke. No video? WTF?
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      • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
        Banned
        Originally Posted by VeitSchenk View Post

        WTF? Here's TF:

        I claim that video outdoes long copy, right?
        well, the best way is to TEST and then give the results.

        If I only did video and never let it go head to head with
        long copy, then once again it's one of those empty
        promises you can't really verify.

        so, the first round was long-copy (which isn't very
        good, as -- like I've said, I'm not very good at writing
        long copy... which is why I asked for help in this thread
        in the first place), the next one is video.

        so, no, it's not a joke, it's just taking seriously what I
        say in the course and actually do it (yes, I tell them
        to actually TEST the effectiveness of their videos)

        now that the conversion rate for the long-copy version
        has stabilised, it's time to do the video one.

        Cheers

        Veit
        Veit, Yes I got it. Many wouldn't. You have about two seconds to grab them before they click off. How do you expect people to get past the premise in your title if there's no video? Not even a hint of a "video sales letter". - Kick A** Video Sales Letters: THE Step-By-Step Guide To Creating Video Sales Letters That SELL!

        You could always put a screenshot of a videoplayer. Or a graphic of a VideoPlayer on one side with Vs Long Copy salesletter on the other. People will get that in a flash. They may not read your copy. Especially when you've promised them a video.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    You say you're good at doing video sales letters.

    For argument's sake, let's assume you are (as I have no way to know either way).

    You're testing a bad letter against a good video.

    Not exactly a fair test...

    If you tested a sales letter... and then translated that exactly into video... that would be a better test.

    Or even a good letter against a good video... even if they were different.

    Not sure what you were really hoping to gain, here.

    -Dan
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    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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    • Profile picture of the author VeitSchenk
      Dan, nail on head 'n all that:

      I want to compare like and like.

      my assumption of course being that my sales-video
      is "good"! (what's "good"? at the end of the day
      it's conversion and happy customer)

      hence the request to help me with the sales-letter,
      to make it at least "good".

      anyway, conversions on the sales letter are good
      (even despite it being "rubbish" in my own eyes),
      so I'll now compare it to pretty much the same content
      translated to video. (which is what you suggest)

      and yes, even then it'll be a tricky comparison, as
      now people have responded to the thread, the price
      has gone up, the day/time is different etc etc etc.

      Veit


      Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

      You say you're good at doing video sales letters.

      For argument's sake, let's assume you are (as I have no way to know either way).

      You're testing a bad letter against a good video.

      Not exactly a fair test...

      If you tested a sales letter... and then translated that exactly into video... that would be a better test.

      Or even a good letter against a good video... even if they were different.

      Not sure what you were really hoping to gain, here.

      -Dan
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