Is is copywriting the MASTER road to riches + Advice please

14 years ago

Hi Courage, I appreciate your initiative and ambition and I hope you do well. I am sure others will have tons of advice and encouragement to offer.

- Rick Duris

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Raydal

14 years ago

Hi Courage,

You can make over $100,000 per year writing copy for sure
but I don't know if it's the way to riches. EXCEPT you plan
to write AND market your own products.

For sure, it's a great skill to have and does beat article
writing in terms of returns per word written but as a
copywriting coach I would never promise a prospect
that I can make them rich as a copywriter.

I was surprised when a highly respected copywriter
published his income in the $200,000K for last year
when he has written a ton of books and has been
in the business for a long time.

While other copywriters make a coulple million
writing for the financial markets--but that's the
exception and not the rule and it's based on
decent royalties.

So you could do a lot better than $300 per
week writing copy but I wouldn't present it as
the road to riches.

But I could be wrong. I've been known to be wrong
sometimes.

-Ray Edwards

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Courage

14 years ago

My interest in learning copy isn't to primarily create sales pages for clients (although i would eventually want to do that)

Instead i want to be able to write extremely persuasive email copy that SELLS

This is so that i can make money by promoting affiliate offers through email marketing.

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Raydal

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Courage

My interest in learning copy isn't to primarily create sales pages for clients (although i would eventually want to do that)

Instead i want to be able to write extremely persuasive email copy that SELLS

This is so that i can make money by promoting affiliate offers through email marketing.

There are no particular copywriting skills that is unique to
email writing. So whether you apply these skills to writing
long sales letters or emails you'll still need to go along the
same path.

An email will take a different format to a sales letter but
the PRINCIPLES are still the same--getting attention,
building curiosity, credibility, proof, call to action, conversational
tone, bullet points, etc.

-Ray Edwards

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Copydog 14 years ago

Hi Courage

You wrote:

Instead i want to be able to write extremely
persuasive email copy that SELLS

Subscribe to the email lists of Alex Mandossian and
Rich Shefren to get good examples of emails that
convert.

And if you have the spare cash, and want to cut
your learning curve, get the AWAI course (by
Jay White) on email copywriting.

It's excellent.

Kind regards

Eldo
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maximus242

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Raydal

Hi Courage,

You can make over $100,000 per year writing copy for sure
but I don't know if it's the way to riches. EXCEPT you plan
to write AND market your own products.

For sure, it's a great skill to have and does beat article
writing in terms of returns per word written but as a
copywriting coach I would never promise a prospect
that I can make them rich as a copywriter.

I was surprised when a highly respected copywriter
published his income in the $200,000K for last year
when he has written a ton of books and has been
in the business for a long time.

While other copywriters make a coulple million
writing for the financial markets--but that's the
exception and not the rule and it's based on
decent royalties.

So you could do a lot better than $300 per
week writing copy but I wouldn't present it as
the road to riches.

But I could be wrong. I've been known to be wrong
sometimes.

-Ray Edwards

$200,000 a year?? Yikes!

Gary Halbert used to say hed be in severe depression if he made less than a hundred thousand dollars in a month, and this is way back in the day.

And its not a couple million, Clayton Makepeace makes about 1 million dollars a month from his copywriting. I believe he writes one package a month and it usually brings in at least 750k for him.

And Jay Abraham... oh god... Jay just cant count it fast enough.

Even these numbers arent very big, some people do 400 mil a year in DM, compared to the rest of the business world this is pretty frigging small stuff.

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Courage 14 years ago

Thanks for all the replies, over the last few days I've reading Maria Veloso's Webcopy that sells.

In the introduction she writes...

Words are the true currency of the web. While it may seem
counterintuitive, it's no wonder that the single most important
ingredient in a commercial website is web copy. Words make
the sale.

Picture a website with cutting-edge design, cool graphics,
interactive bells and whistles, and sophisticated e-commerce
infrastructure. Compare that with a stark website with no
graphics or cool technology--just web copy on a plain white
background. Which of the two websites is more likely to sell a
product or service?

Most people are surprised to learn that it is the one with the
words. Because selling on the web is text-driven, nothing happens
until someone writes the words that get people to click,
sign up, read, register, order, subscribe, or buy whatever you're
selling...

This has pretty much solidified my thinking.

@raydal

I am mainly interested in selling clickbank products at the moment but i am sure that i will one day create products. Can you really make more money with product creation? I am focusing on the simplest way to make money and being an affiliate is way less involved than product creation.

@copydog

thanks i'll check out those lists

@FiverrGuru

awesome post, I'm going to put that advice into practice

@Omar

nice analogy, i'm more than prepared to stay on the road

@maximus242

i read a clayton makepeace / frank kern interview where makepeace claims to make FAR more than a million a month

And this is the exact reason why i am going to try my best to get into this game.

So anyway thanks for everything guys, i have decided that i am going to study this stuff for a at least two hours a day. I am going to...

- read, study, re-read all the books i can get my hands on
- type out sales letters everyday
- practice writing copy for clickbank products
- read blogs like gary halbert, clayton makepeace and copyblogger
- watch you tube videos everyday
- look up all the names mentioned
- read over the old posts in this forum
- persist until...

I'll let you know how it goes.
- Thanks
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travlinguy

14 years ago

I've brought this up a few times in this forum but since it applies here, I'll go into it again. I've called myself a writer for many years. I was never very concerned with what type of writer I might be. I once worked for a strict old-school editor who said a competent writer can apply himself (or herself) to almost any assignment and get results. I learned a lot from this woman.

About 10 years ago I created a stop smoking product based on self-hypnosis. And since I'd lived with the notion for years that a competent writer should be able to get results with virtually any assignment I wrote the sales material. I didn't find it difficult. I've been a student of human behavior since I was a pup and notice what motivates people, what they want, what they fear and hold dear. Long story short, the sales page converted at around 6 percent.

So, with that little bit of success in the can I created a weight loss program also based on self-hypnosis and wrote the sales page for that as well. It didn't do nearly as well, averaging just under a 2 percent conversion. Still, not bad.

So I sort of became a copywriter by default. In a perfect world, I'd get up in the morning and write about 2000 words of fiction because I love to write stories. And this is helpful in writing both content and sales copy. People relate to stories and they are often the best way to make a sale because you can create an underdog with a problem and let the product be the solution. People love it when the underdog wins because many folks see themselves as the underdog.

I once wrote an article titled, All Writing Is Sales Copy. The premise was, whenever a writer puts words to paper he or she is trying to accomplish something. When that something has been accomplished, the sale has been made.

If a greeting card writer is going for the emotional jugular and the reader of the card gets misty reading it, the writer has made the sale. If a technical manual actually helps someone to use the gadget, the writer has made the sale. If you create a landing page designed to get the reader to click through to the actual sales page, well, you get the idea.

I guess it comes back to what that editor told me so many years ago, a competent writer should be able to get the desired result with almost any piece.

As for what you need to do to get to be a competent writer, in the words of Stephen King in his book on the craft titled, On Writing... "Read a lot and write a lot." Good luck...

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The Copy Nazi

Banned 14 years ago

I'll PM you my email. If you respond I'll send you some inspiring swipe files from la crème de la crème. If that doesn't turn your crank, nothing will. But its a long road brother - it doesn't happen overnight. But from your post here you appear to be a decent writer - that's a good start. Now you just need to learn how to write copy that has people reaching for their wallets.

The Copy Nazi

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Daniel Scott

14 years ago

I'll just point out that we're paid handsomely for what we do because it's a damn difficult skill to master.

Expect it to take years of solid study to get good, let alone great.

If you're cool with that... then I wish you the best of luck.

-Dan

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MikeHumphreys

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Daniel Scott

I'll just point out that we're paid handsomely for what we do because it's a damn difficult skill to master.

Expect it to take years of solid study to get good, let alone great.

If you're cool with that... then I wish you the best of luck.

-Dan

I agree. I'll also add that the very best copywriters I've ever met constantly work on their "copy chops". They either read high-quality copy (usually control pieces or proven winners) or write copy every day.

I've been writing copy for my businesses since 1993 and for clients since 2006 and I'm still learning new tactics and techniques to use when I write copy. It's like martial arts... you don't master copywriting overnight but the journey towards mastery is awesome.

Take care,

Mike

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Hugh Thyer 14 years ago

A handyman gets $30 an hour.

A plumber gets $80 an hour.

Specialising is the way to make money. People will pay for the specialist, but not the generalist.

Far better to master just one skill that people want, than to be OK at a whole lot of things.

So yes, mastering copywriting, or ANY field for that matter will be more profitable than trying to be OK at a whole lot of different ones.
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Mr. Enthusiastic

14 years ago

If you want to dig into this subject more deeply, a War Room signup will be well worth the money for you.

Everything I've seen points to these priorities for success:

1. The market or list. As Gary Halbert put it, do you have a hungry crowd?
2. The offer. As Gary put it, is there any way to let you know your wife just had triplets and bore you while sharing the news?
3. The copy, which is simply the sales pitch packaged in a format that doesn't require the salesman to be present in person.
4. Relentless testing and improvement, including walking away from ventures that fail.
5. Following up winners with additional offers to the same audience, and the same offer to new markets.

So by that standard, copywriting is your third most important skill.

Chris

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AnneE

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Mr. Enthusiastic

If you want to dig into this subject more deeply, a War Room signup will be well worth the money for you.

Everything I've seen points to these priorities for success:

1. The market or list. As Gary Halbert put it, do you have a hungry crowd?
2. The offer. As Gary put it, is there any way to let you know your wife just had triplets and bore you while sharing the news?
3. The copy, which is simply the sales pitch packaged in a format that doesn't require the salesman to be present in person.
4. Relentless testing and improvement, including walking away from ventures that fail.
5. Following up winners with additional offers to the same audience, and the same offer to new markets.

So by that standard, copywriting is your third most important skill.

Chris

I like these priorities, but even if you have #1 (lots of hungry people) and #2 (great food reasonably priced), you may still struggle if you don't have a loud enough messenger. -- I'm thinking that it's tough (though not impossible) if you don't have something reasonable for #1, 2 and 3.

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Daniel Sanchez

14 years ago

Master road to riches:

Get really good at what you do

Provide incredible value to others through it

Then get this to as many people as possible ( the richest get it to more people)

If you do a good job, keep giving them more value.

Wash, Rinse. Repeat.

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RentItNow

14 years ago

Follow the masters (kennedy, carlton, kern, etc.)

Get a piece of the pie when you are able to command higher projects.

Learn how to be a salesman before writer. To me the two skills together are the magic formula.

Btw, I think you are going to find success by becoming the best at it. It seems that is how all the other gurus did it.

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FiverrGuru

14 years ago

Here's the post that made a big difference in my copywriting skill, from Gary Halbert himself:

The Gary Halbert Letter

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mubeensgh 14 years ago

Originally Posted by FiverrGuru

Here's the post that made a big difference in my copywriting skill, from Gary Halbert himself:

The Gary Halbert Letter

omg this is by far the best piece of writing i have seen. Expecially the last part:

"You want to know what a truly world-class, no-excuse, no-BS copywriter ought to be able to do? It's this: He ought to be able to write an ad that tells how good he is. Hell, if he can't sell himself, how can you expect him to sell your goods or services."

Gary Halbert
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Omar Khafagy

14 years ago

Alright, I'll say what no one else has yet:

Your copy will suck more often than it succeeds. Expect that, regardless of how well one or two salesletters might do.

Eventually, you'll cock it up. You'll miss the "point", misunderstand the target market... or write a gawdawful headline. Yeeup, it'll happen. In fact, most of what you write will probably be mediocre at best.

I have personally heard stories from clients who have formerly hired some of the guru-level copywriters... I've heard how BAD their conversion rates are and I've read the copy myself -- It's usually no wonder the copy doesn't covert... it stinks. (Note: This could simply be because the copywriter who wrote it was actually a copy cub. That happens too, but it isn't an excuse. If you put your name on it, you should damn well feel good about it).

So why are we hired, if we aren't PERFECT in every way, if we don't do EVERY single bit of the job right?

It's because we're the Babe Ruth's of the business world. We don't hit even half of the balls pitched at us, but we hit more than everyone else, and when we do, we make it count.

I say this not to bring you down, but to try to bring some reality to the situation: there no master road to riches. There is only the road you select and how long you're willing to stick to it.

If writing copy is the goal, good. Now stick to it. Even Ogilvy wrote ****ty ads. You'll be no different.

I hope I've made sense here. Sometimes I hear a little too much hyperbole about the copywriting profession, and it can lead to high expectations and some serious shock when those expectations aren't met.

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gjabiz

14 years ago

Originally Posted by Omar Khafagy

Alright, I'll say what no one else has yet:

Your copy will suck more often than it succeeds. Expect that, regardless of how well one or two salesletters might do.

Thank You Omar for some truth.

Road to riches? MASTER road to riches? Well, like my friend Jim Straw asks; Who is the most beautiful woman in the world? AH. It gets subjective quickly.

First we have to agree on what "riches" are? An arbitray net worth? A number? Financial Freedom and Independence?

Since I don't know what you think it is, I'll use the last one; Financial Freedom, as the yardstick for riches, fair enough?

Now for the MASTER Road. Wealthiest man I personally interacted with was Burt Morgan. His road? Start a company and build it up. Burt started many companies. The foundation he left behind will fund future Entrepreneurs for many years to come.

Other FINANCIALLY FREE people's roads? Ed Barr=serial Entrepreneur and Business Owner.

Ben Suarez, Direct Response and he was/IS a copywriter. Might be a good "MODEL" to look at for he has written about his road and left a blueprint for building your own.

Harvey Brody, COPYWRITER and owner of several TOLL POSITIONS.

The way to riches depends on YOU. IF you can get "great" at copywriting, you may or may not make your fortune(s) OR you could be on a roller coaster high, like Gary Halbert who was a "feast or famine" sort of guy.

Building a business on copywriting certainly CAN be one road to "riches", but don't forget the "start a business" route, or the "get control of a product" route, or the "entertainer/manager/producer" route...many MASTER roads to riches.

Only advice I can offer is to pick the path which best suits YOU. Plenty of role models to choose from.

gjabiz

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Profolegy

14 years ago

Hi Courage,
I took a great copywriting eclass 6 week course last couple of months from Jason Fladlien.
I found easy to follow along and implement. If he can teach a dumb old dude like me anythings possible.
He has another one coming out soon, look out for it.
Follow every bit of content The Copy Nazi puts out as well.

All so dont be shy sign off with your real name on your posts.

Stick with it you are going to be great.

Cheers...........bruceS................

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Is is copywriting the MASTER road to riches + Advice please

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