FatLossForIdiots style copywriting

55 replies
Hello Warriors!

I just got on IM not too long ago and I've heard of the huge success Fatlossforidiots has. There seems to be a lot of kudos to the technique of copywriting on that site, i.e: building suspense and baiting commitment from the reader by asking them to click "next" to get more information. But somehow, we're still seeing a lot of the conventional long scrolling sales letter.

Has anyone here ever tried writing up sales pages using that technique before? Or done a split test, (one page sales letter vs multiple page sales letter)

Which is better? The tried and tested (albeit common) method, or that fatlossforidiots multiple page sales letter?
#copywriting #fatlossforidiots #style
  • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
    Screw fatlossforidiots. I wrote fatburningfurnace and the conversion kills the idiots conversion.

    As for your question, this type of writing doesn't work best for all markets. fatloss is one it does work better for. (I'm not going to reveal why, though. I have too many clients in that market.)
    Signature
    The Montello Group
    Copywriting|Publishing|Training
    Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

    Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
    CLICK HERE!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2325364].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
      Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

      Screw fatlossforidiots. I wrote fatburningfurnace and the conversion kills the idiots conversion.
      Congrats on your letter producing more than $21,145,924.30 in sales. (That's what FL4I did in 12 months.)
      Signature

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2325439].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
        when did I say that Subtle? I said it converts better. FL4I is successful for other reasons and you know that. Fl4I is horribly written and you know that too. So stop being a dick.
        Signature
        The Montello Group
        Copywriting|Publishing|Training
        Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

        Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
        CLICK HERE!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2325449].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
          Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

          when did I say that Subtle? I said it converts better.
          Based on your "conversion" how long will it take your client to hit the $20 million dollar mark?
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2325597].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
            Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle View Post

            Based on your "conversion" how long will it take your client to hit the $20 million dollar mark?
            I really don't know why you do this Vic. but to answer your question...

            With conversions as they are it would take around 3 years (a little under, actually). But... that's also being done with around 1/15th of the amount of affiliates as compared to 4idiots.

            And even though you have to be a prick when it comes to anything I say, for some strange twisted reason... you know that's a big part of the 4idiots playbook. They had... back when they were number 1 a massive amount of traffic thrown at them. I mean huge honking traffic.

            I'm done with this, Vic and until you start treating me a with at least the fairest amount of professional decency, I'm done with you.
            Signature
            The Montello Group
            Copywriting|Publishing|Training
            Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

            Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
            CLICK HERE!
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2325659].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
              Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

              I'm done with this, Vic and until you start treating me a with at least the fairest amount of professional decency, I'm done with you.
              First of all I congratulated you on your letter doing over $21 million in 12 months. It turns out it only converts better.

              Then I asked how long will it take your letter to reach the $21 million mark. And this upsets you? Seriously? Dude, you need to grow some thicker skin.





              To any business owner who wants to market an info product I have a question for you: What would you rather have...

              1. A web page in a multi-page format sales letter with "terrible" copy (and no testimonials) that does over $21,000,000 (in a year) or

              2. A single page sales letter, with wonderfully written copy, that converts better than the above letter, but sales don't come anywhere near $21,000,000?

              I've heard the following PIKED in copywriting forums for years... results talk: everything else walks.




              .
              Signature

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2328510].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
                Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle View Post

                To any business owner who wants to market an info product I have a question for you: What would you rather have...

                1. A web page in a multi-page format sales letter with "terrible" copy (and no testimonials) that does over $21,000,000 (in a year) or

                2. A single page sales letter, with wonderfully written copy, that converts better than the above letter, but sales don't come anywhere near $21,000,000?
                Business owners bringing a new info product to market don't have the luxury of hindsight. So the best bet is to launch with good copy rather than bad.

                Alex
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2328611].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author CurtisN
                Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle View Post

                To any business owner who wants to market an info product I have a question for you: What would you rather have...

                1. A web page in a multi-page format sales letter with "terrible" copy (and no testimonials) that does over $21,000,000 (in a year) or

                2. A single page sales letter, with wonderfully written copy, that converts better than the above letter, but sales don't come anywhere near $21,000,000?
                I'd pick option 2.

                Why?

                Because I'd have a world class copywriter in my rolodex who can write me ANOTHER wonderful piece of copy.

                With option 1, you're stick with a one-trick pony and a copywriter you'll never call again except to chew him/her out.

                You might call me naive, but I'd call you short-sighted.
                Signature
                Curtis Ng (blog) - Product Launch Manager
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2328619].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
                It's been awhile since I had to research FLFI for a client project but the conversion rate was definitely under 0.5% then. Bottom line, it wasn't the copy that was the source of their success.

                Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle View Post

                First of all I congratulated you on your letter doing over $21 million in 12 months. It turns out it only converts better.

                Then I asked how long will it take your letter to reach the $21 million mark. And this upsets you? Seriously? Dude, you need to grow some thicker skin.
                Vin said just under 3 years... so $7M per year average in a down economy is nothing to be ashamed of.

                Subtle, you're quick to rip copywriters on our skin thickness and on what we write... just curious, do you have any 6 figure or 7 figure sales hits you've written/created that you'd care to share with the rest of us?

                I'd love to see some of your work besides the toons you've shared on forums like this one.



                To any business owner who wants to market an info product I have a question for you: What would you rather have...

                1. A web page in a multi-page format sales letter with "terrible" copy (and no testimonials) that does over $21,000,000 (in a year) or

                2. A single page sales letter, with wonderfully written copy, that converts better than the above letter, but sales don't come anywhere near $21,000,000?

                I've heard the following PIKED in copywriting forums for years... results talk: everything else walks.
                Easy answer. Go with #2 because it's alot easier to recruit super affiliates if you have the metrics and conversion rates to show that they can make a lot of money by promoting your product to their list of 50,000-100,000+ people.

                In addition, a higher conversion rate lets you have your product self-finance other marketing like renting a mailing list and doing direct mail to hit an even wider audience, including those who don't like to buy things online but love to do so from mail order or infomercials.

                Mike
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2328762].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
          Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

          Fl4I is horribly written and you know that too.
          Ask anyone here if it's horribly written when post after post in this forum always point to... what are the results?
          Signature

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2325643].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Flareman
      Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

      Screw fatlossforidiots. I wrote fatburningfurnace and the conversion kills the idiots conversion.

      As for your question, this type of writing doesn't work best for all markets. fatloss is one it does work better for. (I'm not going to reveal why, though. I have too many clients in that market.)
      Did you write their video copy as well? Also, how much would you charge for a similar project like fatburningfurnace? I'm also looking for copywriters for a similar niche.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2325536].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
        Originally Posted by Flareman View Post

        Did you write their video copy as well? Also, how much would you charge for a similar project like fatburningfurnace? I'm also looking for copywriters for a similar niche.
        the video is nearly 100% transcription of the sales letter. As for what I'd charge... probably more than you have budgeted for this. I have students though and they are always looking for more work.
        Signature
        The Montello Group
        Copywriting|Publishing|Training
        Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

        Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
        CLICK HERE!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2325665].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
          Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle View Post

          Ask anyone here if it's horribly written when post after post in this forum always point to... what are the results?
          I'm not sure if you're aware of this... and this is only what I've heard... but AFAIK the original FL4I letter was very different to the current one.

          The legend goes it converted far better to the current version... which is what cemented its reputation and attracted an absolute ton of affiliates.

          For whatever reason it was horribly changed after a while but since it was #1 on CB the crazy amount of new affiliates it attracted... plus the amount of old affiliates who didn't keep an eye on the performance of the campaign... kept it at #1.

          Having said that... I just had a look through the CB marketplace.

          FatBurningFurnace is #3 (both by popularity and by gravity)... and FatLoss4Idiots is #4.

          A lot of the posts you mention are "This page looks like crap, does it actually convert?"... and judging by CB gravity it appears that a lot of people are starting to jump ship.

          Just food for thought.

          -Dan
          Signature

          Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2326779].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
            Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

            I'm not sure if you're aware of this... and this is only what I've heard... but AFAIK the original FL4I letter was very different to the current one.

            The legend goes it converted far better to the current version... which is what cemented its reputation and attracted an absolute ton of affiliates.
            Dan,

            My only problem with this "legend" is that it doesn't make any sense. If they changed the page and it converted much lower, what $20 million business wouldn't change it back? It doesn't hold water.

            Congrats to Vin though, for knocking it off the top of the hill.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2326802].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    Don't make me separate you two!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2325533].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Bruce,

    You could be right... probably are.

    And again... this is only what I've heard. I'm not affiliated with the FL4I guys in any way and have no access to their logs.

    Yet I've heard from numerous (accomplished) affiliates that FL4I converts about a quarter as well as FBF.

    I've heard the current page converts at maybe .5%... which can only make me wonder what it converted at before...

    Of course... this is all just hearsay.

    And although it comes from people I trust... it's still only circumstantial evidence at best.

    Just wanted to share the little bit of knowledge I have about this situation... as I'm one of the people who thinks the FL4I page is pretty woeful.

    -Dan
    Signature

    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2326826].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    I have no idea if I'm right. I've heard the same thing about the conversion rate, 0.5%. I am just saying that the story doesn't make any sense.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2326978].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Flareman
    What makes FL4I so interesting is that it defies all the rules we traditionally heard about sales pages such as, telling stories, testimonials, etc. Here we have people constantly asking for testimonials to boost credibility and yet FL4I gets away without a before / after pic, testimonials, forum support. There must be something really hypnotic about their copy.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2327232].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
      Flareman,

      the point I was trying to make was that fl4idiots isn't successful because of the copy. It's successful because of the plan.

      You have a market that encompasses every other niche in the world...

      Gamers?... sure, some of them are fat...
      Dog lovers?... some fatties there too...
      Those interested in green fuel?... more than 1 tubby in that group...
      People who get speeding tickets... yep...
      First time mothers... oh god yeah...

      Successful marketers in all these niches were enticed to mail out. Tons of sh*t thrown at the wall... some of it is bound to stick.

      So... nothing "hypnotic" about the copy. The multipage thing does force the reader to "invest" in the reading but that's about it.

      Not only is fatburning written better, many less successful product letters are written better than the idiots one. But in their case it's not about the writing.

      Capice?

      And as for the rumor of a 1/2 point conversion, my sources tell me that number is inflated and maybe it's more like half that amount.
      Signature
      The Montello Group
      Copywriting|Publishing|Training
      Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

      Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
      CLICK HERE!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2327437].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tylerdrun
    this is basically like magic of making up. Everyone thinks magic of making up is high converting and rocks.. but in truth it sucks ass when there are lots of other products that have better conversions and lower refund rate than this piece of ****.

    Marketted a heck out of it. That's why fl4idiots and magic of making up have stuck on...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2327585].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ChadH
    The thing about FL4I, is that is definitely does convert worse than FBF, Truth About Abs, and The Diet Solution Program. (as an aside, I'd love to hear Vin and other copywriters opinions on the video sales letter that these top 3 products utilize). FL4I produced due to volume, the other 3 products were either non existent or in early stages at this time.

    FL4I claimed they did 21 million in a year. I'm willing to bet that wasn't all front end sales. Some offers have pretty bad front end conversions but great back end processes. It's pretty tough to just look at the numbers and blame copy. And it's also naive to take claims at face value.

    Your copy gives you an advantage but it doesn't make your offer. The offer is everything. The copy can present it in a better light of course.

    And Alex makes a great point, you don't have the benefit of hind sight. Though, I do think FL4I sideways style helps to get the reader to keep reading, not sure if that was on the "21 mill" letter.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2328692].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Zach Booker
    @Mr. Stuble You're being awfully naive. Vin's clients knew that by hiring a great copywriter, to get great conversions, they bettered their chances of being able to compete with an already well-rooted product like fatloss4idiots.

    ...If I remember right when furnace launched it was more of a soft launch. It's since grown it's daily sales figures many times over what it initially did when "launched".

    For the record FL4I doesn't do as high volume as it once did. Not even as close as you suggest. When re-bills came out full force in early '09 many "super affiliates" moved over to them. And when traffic sources started to ban re-bills they moved to better converting products like Diet Solution and Fat Burning Furnace.

    As someone who hardly ever comes around these parts you come across as either jealous of Vin or you just love picking on him. Either way it comes across as if you're trying to pick a fight - in which you've already lost - especially when you don't have current facts, numbers, etc to back up your statements.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2328728].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
      Chad,

      fbf uses a powerpoint video that is almost a 100% transcription of the sales letter. And by the way... for anyone who cares to keep on top of what we're really comparing here...

      The fbf letter I wrote was never a single page sales letter. It was a multi-page letter. My research told me this was a particularly good niche to try this in. And it had little to do with the idiots' success with it. Not nothing to do with it, I definitely considered their success at the time, but I had other reasons to believe this would work with the particular segment of the market we were aiming at.

      And yeah... that letter converted like crazy and yeah...knocked the the idiots out of the top slot...

      Then my client had this idea for doing the video. He had seen it done once before in another niche and wanted to try it. So we tried it. (He's that kind of client.)

      And we were both surprised when it nearly doubled conversions. That client began making the kind of green I can't even tell you about. I mean crazy monthly sales numbers...

      He never dropped his sales letter. In fact he plans to reinvest in his product again in a few months by having me try a brand new letter to take on the control. And I know he's going with a letter... AND a ppt video of that letter.

      Why? Well... here's a little heads up for anyone who cares... the PPT video is a fad that will die out, probably in 2010.

      This client is a guy who knows his stuff and works his ass off to make this "easy money in his sleep..."

      Edited to add: Out of deference to my client's privacy I want to say that I have no official word that fbf has made any money whatsoever, let alone 7 million per year. I don't know what the official cash results are (if you know what I'm saying).
      Signature
      The Montello Group
      Copywriting|Publishing|Training
      Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

      Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
      CLICK HERE!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2328780].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
        Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post


        Why? Well... here's a little heads up for anyone who cares... the PPT video is a fad that will die out, probably in 2010.
        Vin,

        I was right with you until you made the above statement. What evidence do have that PowerPoint videos will die out?

        I don't think all PPT-style videos will go the way of the dinosaur, but I suspect that poorly produced PPT videos very well may.

        Why?

        Because, as time goes by, people expect more.

        So, is it a fad? No. But, to compete, I think you'll need to start adding some production value (such as photos, charts, bits of live-action video, and animation).

        Video is no longer "brand new." PPT videos that simply display the text being spoken are becoming increasingly dull. And, as you well know, one of the rules of advertising is never to be boring.

        Yes, they need to adapt... but they're not going away.

        - John
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2328963].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
          Johnny,

          I'm big on video marketing... don't get me wrong. But these powerpoint videos will fade away... and that's based on history.

          Everything that has replaced the sales letter has done it temporarily.

          The market will be overly powerpointed by either the end of 2010 or sometime in 2011 I predict. Then something else will come along.

          I'm 99% sure the next video thing will not be powerpoint, but something else.



          And Johnny... it's my opinion. I could always be wrong. It would only be the 100th time this week I was wrong.

          Anyway I make a ton of these videos right now and don't expect them to last forever.

          And as for whoever it was who said slick movie trailer videos would be next... maybe. I know I did a movie trailer video 2 years ago for a squeeze page. It converted at 91%.

          Originally Posted by Johnny12345 View Post

          Vin,

          I was right with you until you made the above statement. What evidence do have that PowerPoint videos will die out?

          I don't think all PPT-style videos will go the way of the dinosaur, but I suspect that poorly produced PPT videos very well may.

          Why?

          Because, as time goes by, people expect more.

          So, is it a fad? No. But, to compete, I think you'll need to start adding some production value (such as photos, charts, bits of live-action video, and animation).

          Video is no longer "brand new." PPT videos that simply display the text being spoken are becoming increasingly dull. And, as you well know, one of the rules of advertising is never to be boring.

          Yes, they need to adapt... but they're not going away.

          - John
          Signature
          The Montello Group
          Copywriting|Publishing|Training
          Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

          Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
          CLICK HERE!
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2329681].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
            Vin,

            Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

            I'm 99% sure the next video thing will not be powerpoint, but something else.
            Well, we all know that video, in general, isn't going away. Heck, it really just got here.

            PowerPoint is just "presentation style" (like a college lecture). And that's not going away, either. But it might evolve to the point where it looks a lot less like PPT and more like something else. We'll see.


            And as for whoever it was who said slick movie trailer videos would be next... maybe. I know I did a movie trailer video 2 years ago for a squeeze page. It converted at 91%.
            One rather small point...

            Chad didn't say movie trailers would be the next big thing -- he said "sales letter videos with the production quality of movie trailers." Those are very different things.

            Producing a slick video the length of some video sales letters could be expensive... and Industrial Light & Magic probably isn't within the budget of most Internet marketers.

            - John
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2329943].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
              Originally Posted by Johnny12345 View Post

              PowerPoint is just "presentation style" (like a college lecture). And that's not going away, either. But it might evolve to the point where it looks a lot less like PPT and more like something else. We'll see.
              For the record, I'm personally predicting ppt videos for marketing WILL fade away. And by that I mean no one marketing in any volume will be using them. They'll be using the next thing.


              One rather small point...

              Chad didn't say movie trailers would be the next big thing -- he said "sales letter videos with the production quality of movie trailers." Those are very different things.

              Producing a slick video the length of some video sales letters could be expensive... and Industrial Light & Magic probably isn't within the budget of most Internet marketers.

              - John
              Let me clarify. In my professional opinion the whole longcopy video online will not be the next thing. If the movie trailer style does become the norm the videos will be much much shorter. In fact the only video marketing that successfully sells infoproducts across a somewhat broad swath of markets with longcopy and done it consistently, has been the ppt video. It's an anomaly.

              Again... my prediction is the next thing will be shorter... probably in conjunction with the written text (ala the sales letter)... So the entire concept of long videos of movie trailer quality isn't even an issue. Of course that will never be the norm.
              Signature
              The Montello Group
              Copywriting|Publishing|Training
              Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

              Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
              CLICK HERE!
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2330074].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
                Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

                For the record, I'm personally predicting ppt videos for marketing WILL fade away.

                Microsoft hopes you're wrong.

                - John
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2330257].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
                  Johnny... I don't think Microsoft gives a flying flip whether marketers continue to use ppt. As a market for their product, this isn't even noticeable to them.

                  It's not like the marketers using it are creating something that requires the end user to have ppt in order to see it.

                  This means nothing to MS.

                  And I have to say Johnny... I'm a little confused about why you're so attached to ppt for video making. You realize that ppt is probably one of the clunkiest ways to create video, especially if you try doing some of the more advanced stuff.

                  Using software that is created specifically to make video is way easier... and far better than doing it in ppt.

                  Final Cut and its tools...

                  Adobe Premiere and After Effects...

                  Sony Vegas...

                  Even the Tools within camtasia...


                  Even if the "words on screen being almost exactly the words the narrator narrates" video continues for a while, there is no reason to continue to do it with the simple (almost simplistic) methods in ppt.

                  My opinion is ppt has its place. It makes great live presentations.

                  I wouldn't use video creation software to do ppt's job.
                  Signature
                  The Montello Group
                  Copywriting|Publishing|Training
                  Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

                  Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
                  CLICK HERE!
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2330550].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
                    Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

                    Johnny... I don't think Microsoft gives a flying flip whether marketers continue to use ppt. As a market for their product, this isn't even noticeable to them.

                    <snip>

                    This means nothing to MS.
                    Vin,

                    That was intended to be a very small bit of geek humor. I apologize for forgetting to add a smiley. My bad.

                    I fully realize that if every Internet marketer on the face of the Earth quit using PPT, Microsoft wouldn't even notice.


                    And I have to say Johnny... I'm a little confused about why you're so attached to ppt for video making. You realize that ppt is probably one of the clunkiest ways to create video, especially if you try doing some of the more advanced stuff.

                    Using software that is created specifically to make video is way easier... and far better than doing it in ppt.
                    I'm not attached to PowerPoint. In fact, I've never used it. Not even once.

                    I wasn't commenting on PPT, per se. I was referring to the PPT-like "presentation style" that is so common these days -- no matter which piece of software it's actually created with.

                    - John
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2330729].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
            Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

            The market will be overly powerpointed by either the end of 2010 or sometime in 2011 I predict. Then something else will come along.

            I'm 99% sure the next video thing will not be powerpoint, but something else.

            Vin,

            Just in case you're right (and the future really does hold big changes) I'm going to leave an empty spot in my living room for a holodeck. Imagine the infomercials!

            - John
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2330005].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Flareman
            Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

            And as for whoever it was who said slick movie trailer videos would be next... maybe. I know I did a movie trailer video 2 years ago for a squeeze page. It converted at 91%.
            Vin, is that movie trailer video still around? Could you share that with us? Or were you joking? :S
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2333069].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
              Originally Posted by Flareman View Post

              Vin, is that movie trailer video still around? Could you share that with us? Or were you joking? :S
              Dead serious... It's no longer around and I'm NDA'd on it.
              Signature
              The Montello Group
              Copywriting|Publishing|Training
              Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

              Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
              CLICK HERE!
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2333111].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Flareman
                Originally Posted by MontelloMarketing View Post

                Dead serious... It's no longer around and I'm NDA'd on it.
                Thats a shame. Would have liked to see what it looks like.
                Is it just the video or is it a combination of video and also sales letter on the same page? Just trying to figure out of its solely the video that made the conversion.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2335240].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
                  Just a video on a page. the page was "themed" to match the movie trailer style, but no additional copy.

                  Originally Posted by Flareman View Post

                  Thats a shame. Would have liked to see what it looks like.
                  Is it just the video or is it a combination of video and also sales letter on the same page? Just trying to figure out of its solely the video that made the conversion.
                  Signature
                  The Montello Group
                  Copywriting|Publishing|Training
                  Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

                  Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
                  CLICK HERE!
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2338234].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Alex Barboza
                    Not an expert here but I can tell you that Fat Burning Furnace converts better, at least its Spanish version. Both FBF and FL4I have been translated into Spanish. The copies are the same, I found no single different word in their English and Spanish versions. There are no big affiliates in our market so most traffic is cold, ppc paid and some SEO traffic, and FBF has become the most sold product in Clickbank in Spanish and the FL4I is not even close.

                    I really agree with Vin that his copy converts better

                    Vin: Do you offer any trainning course or membership or something?

                    Thanks
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2531254].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
                      I offer 1 on 1 mentoring/coaching. But since I like my students to later become partners with me, I keep the roster very limited.

                      Originally Posted by AlexBarboza View Post

                      Not an expert here but I can tell you that Fat Burning Furnace converts better, at least its Spanish version. Both FBF and FL4I have been translated into Spanish. The copies are the same, I found no single different word in their English and Spanish versions. There are no big affiliates in our market so most traffic is cold, ppc paid and some SEO traffic, and FBF has become the most sold product in Clickbank in Spanish and the FL4I is not even close.

                      I really agree with Vin that his copy converts better

                      Vin: Do you offer any trainning course or membership or something?

                      Thanks
                      Signature
                      The Montello Group
                      Copywriting|Publishing|Training
                      Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

                      Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
                      CLICK HERE!
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2531363].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ChadH
    Thanks for the reply vin.... Have u taken a look at a lot of the rebill style landers in the weight loss niche? If so, do you feel their success is simply due to using a free trial product or is there some magic in those landers. To me they have lots of textual errors in them and makes me think people read nothing but headlines, sub heads, and offer.

    Imo, as a side note, i always thought it was smart that fl4i slightly hinted at the popular "idiots guide" book series, even using similar fonts and such.....
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2328827].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2329004].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Andrew Gould
      Originally Posted by ChadH View Post

      I think sales letter videos with the production quality of movie trailers are the next big thing lol
      Check this one out:

      Leglocker: Toe Hold - Heel Hook - Knee Bar DVD

      (Note - I have NO association at all with the above website)
      Signature

      Andrew Gould

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2329051].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Johnny12345
      Originally Posted by ChadH View Post

      I think sales letter videos with the production quality of movie trailers are the next big thing lol
      Probably not. (It could be expensive.)

      But a good example of taking PowerPoint to the next level would be something like Andy Jenkins' Video Boss videos. They are, essentially, just PPT videos, but they add visual elements to keep it interesting.

      If you read the trilogy of books by Roy Williams, you'll understand. He talks extensively about exciting the brain (broca's area). It's a good read.

      - John
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2329137].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Imagine you were in a courtroom and you had to convince twelve of your peers you were innocent of a crime. Would you use a powerpoint presentation to convey your message? Would you memorize a script and recite?

    No.

    Whatever that "new" process is... is the next big thing.

    - Rick Duris

    PS: Please save the "if the glove doesn't fit..." comments.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2329833].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Vikram73
    @MontelloMarketing - congrats on writing the copy for FBF - it does convert very well in my experience & comparing FBF sales (which is targetted towards a more specific niche) to FLI sales is bogus.

    FLI is written for women over 30 (just check their affiliate page where they point out that this is their target demographic) who just want an easy way to lose weight.

    FLI just has a broader marketplace.

    You can't fault the copy writer for the product's taret demographic.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2332276].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ChadH
    I have a product being released that is more targeted at the p90x/insanity workout crowd, i think one format ill test is a slick video style like they have on their sites.... They use a much shorter vid, 90 seconds i think maybe 120.... Its like the segway portion of their 30 minute infomercials... Then there is copy elsewhere on the page. Id like to test that vs a longer produced video, with bullet copy. The latter is what reese said would be the next big thing, equating it to the brochure in old direct mail marketing.

    Though the 2 i mentioned have a strong offline presence too. I think for online the story approach in whatever medium works well, but think kerns first vid for list control promo vs ppt.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2332755].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    so heres the thing that i dont get....

    if fbf/ fl4i converts SO POORLY, how are affiliates still pushing this?

    I mean, if you're not making money and doing ad spends, eventually you run outta money right?

    eventually you say F it and move on.

    How are these sites consistently getting FLOODS of traffic if it converts so poorly?

    I mean, damn.... i've got offers doing close to 4%, i guess i need to get my stuff on CB eh?
    Signature

    “Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.”
    ― Dalai Lama XIV

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2333170].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
      fbf converts well. It's the other one that doesn't.

      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      so heres the thing that i dont get....

      if fbf/ fl4i converts SO POORLY, how are affiliates still pushing this?

      I mean, if you're not making money and doing ad spends, eventually you run outta money right?

      eventually you say F it and move on.

      How are these sites consistently getting FLOODS of traffic if it converts so poorly?

      I mean, damn.... i've got offers doing close to 4%, i guess i need to get my stuff on CB eh?
      Signature
      The Montello Group
      Copywriting|Publishing|Training
      Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

      Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
      CLICK HERE!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2333218].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Zach Booker
      Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

      so heres the thing that i dont get....

      if fbf/ fl4i converts SO POORLY, how are affiliates still pushing this?

      I mean, if you're not making money and doing ad spends, eventually you run outta money right?

      eventually you say F it and move on.

      How are these sites consistently getting FLOODS of traffic if it converts so poorly?

      I mean, damn.... i've got offers doing close to 4%, i guess i need to get my stuff on CB eh?
      It's not that it isn't profitable for some people. I'm sure it is.

      ...Chances are they just haven't bothered split testing since they are profitable and making a few dollars.

      The trend is obvious, though. People are moving on.

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2333238].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    vin, well as in?

    over 1% on paid traffic?
    Signature

    “Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.”
    ― Dalai Lama XIV

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2333360].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2338218].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Midas3 Consulting
    We sell 5 + copies a day of FBF from a single review page purely from organic.

    The VSL converts like a monster, couple that with some on exits for trials
    and it really is a solid product to promote.

    @ Vin, didn't realize you did the copy on that VSL, there's some parts
    that are considerably different from the old copy, and the old copy was
    pretty good.

    FL4I has had it's day really, it used to be self propelling due to the grav
    all the newbs jump in, waste their $200 on PPC keeping it there.

    Plenty of guys doing it better nowadays between Rob P,
    Jon B, Joel etc.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[2531493].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Helps Here
    Any idea which landing page on FBF converts the best? They offer a few there. I know,test, but just curious on the take. thanks
    Signature
    You can do it!!
    my new site is here!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3127143].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MontelloMarketing
    Well... 2010 has come and gone and it's official... I was wrong. PPT videos are not gone. They've been jazzed up a little with graphics but they're still selling pretty strongly.

    I still contend there's something better on the horizon.
    Signature
    The Montello Group
    Copywriting|Publishing|Training
    Your Premier Conversion Cooperative

    Join Us For Free Conversion Webinars
    CLICK HERE!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[3127326].message }}

Trending Topics