Best Education For Copywriters?

33 replies
Hey all,
I have taken John Carlton's Simple Writing System Course, and have recently begun another online course for copywriting.

What is the best beginner/intermediate course to take that will send you well prepared into the fray?

Thanks!
#copywriters #education
  • Profile picture of the author vip-ip
    Bob,

    Not one book will make you good at it. Best course is to start.

    Best Regards,
    vip-ip ...
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    • Profile picture of the author VanessaB
      I have to agree with VIP... experience is the best teacher.

      Practice, practice, practice.

      Then, Dan Kennedy is one of my personal favorites.

      Of course, with so much focus now moving to video sales letters, you might want to bypass those two and go straight to Ryan Deiss

      -Dani
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      • Profile picture of the author Prosechild
        Hi Bob,

        I recently finished SWS too and have been devouring all copywriting info I can get my hands on IMO I think we've taken the best course, from what I've been reading on this subforum and elsewhere. So maybe what you're really asking is, what do we do now?? If so, here is advice I've found helpful.

        My post count isn't high enough to post links yet, so you'll have to cut/paste into your browser and delete the spaces.

        Gary Halbert's advice to a newbie copywriter:

        thegaryhalbertletter.com /Newsletters/zfkj_hands_on_experience.htm
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        • Profile picture of the author smak
          Gotta add Clayton Makepeace's masterpiece that is 'Total Package'.

          This course really covers in depth in step by step fashion the art of copywritting.

          Another one I have that to be honest I have not had the time to study but bought it cause of rave reviews is Brian Kieth Voiles 'Admagic' course.
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            • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
              For beginner/immediate level training, here are my suggestions...

              If you did the SWS course, then you also got Carlton's Kick-Ass Copywriting Secrets of A Marketing Rebel which I liked better than SWS. I'd suggest reviewing that, especially the sections on bullet writing.

              Read a few of classic books like Tested Advertising Methods by John Caples and How To Write An Advertisement by Victor Schwab. Dan Kennedy's Ultimate Sales Letter is also good for teaching you the core fundamentals.

              As for throwing your hat into the copywriting ring, then do it. If you're serious about climbing to the upper ranks of copywriter, where your name gets dropped with the other top copywriters then you're going to have to keep working on improving your game.

              That means continuing to study copywriting... reading & studying proven winning copy controls (both offline and online)... and having a burning desire to get to the top.

              Further down the road, grab Clayton Makepeace's Quick Start Copywriting System. It's not cheap... but it's the very best copywriting course I've seen to date and I've pretty much seen them all. The amount of information... the quality of material... the swipe file materials... are off the charts.

              Best of luck,

              Mike
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    • Profile picture of the author PMinc
      Originally Posted by vip-ip View Post

      Bob,

      Not one book will make you good at it. Best course is to start.

      Best Regards,
      vip-ip ...
      Couldn't agree more. I have tons of copywriting books, but I read them as I work.

      The best way to get a kickstart?

      Find a mean-ass, demanding ball breaker who lives for sales to work for.
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      • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
        Originally Posted by John Breese View Post

        The best way to get a kickstart? Find a mean-ass, demanding ball breaker who lives for sales to work for.
        There you go! After that writing is the easy part.
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        • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
          Last week, Clayton Makepeace's Quick Start Copywriting System
          was going for half price at his site...better go over there to check it out..
          it may be still on sale!

          You have read Mikes review, haven't you?

          All the best,
          Ewen
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          • Profile picture of the author ARSuarez
            Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

            Last week, Clayton Makepeace's Quick Start Copywriting System
            was going for half price at his site...better go over there to check it out..
            it may be still on sale!

            You have read Mikes review, haven't you?

            All the best,
            Ewen

            Hey Ewen,

            This is because he is clearing out all the inventory.

            Everything is going to be taken off the market. They'll be sending out emails to warn subscribers when a product is on its last week before they get rid of it.

            "How To Build A Six Figure Copywriting Business" just went off the market yesterday. His marketing summit is on the last stretch right now, too.

            If anyone wants to do any last minute shopping, I advise doing so soon.

            Best,

            Angel
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      • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
        Originally Posted by John Breese View Post

        Find a mean-ass, demanding ball breaker who lives for sales to work for.
        That's what Dan Kennedy did. He ended up getting a job working
        for a then unknown Gary Halbert....

        he seems to have gleaned a thing or two
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
          Originally Posted by IM Viper View Post

          That's what Dan Kennedy did. He ended up getting a job working
          for a then unknown Gary Halbert....

          he seems to have gleaned a thing or two
          I don't recall hearing Dan Kennedy ever say that.

          Maybe you're thinking of John Carlton instead working for Halbert at one time?
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          • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
            Originally Posted by MikeHumphreys View Post

            I don't recall hearing Dan Kennedy ever say that.

            Maybe you're thinking of John Carlton instead working for Halbert at one time?
            I have one of his cds (I've listened to over and over) and he talks
            about working for Gary, in detail. It's a good story (told
            in typical Kennedy fashion )

            This story takes place before Dan entered marketing. They lived
            in the same town (in case you did not know)

            I'll find what the cd is titled is and post it on here. Problem is
            I have a lot of Kennedy cds....
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            • Profile picture of the author ARSuarez
              Originally Posted by IM Viper View Post

              I have one of his cds (I've listened to over and over) and he talks
              about working for Gary, in detail. It's a good story (told
              in typical Kennedy fashion )

              This story takes place before Dan entered marketing. They lived
              in the same town (in case you did not know)

              I'll find what the cd is titled is and post it on here. Problem is
              I have a lot of Kennedy cds....
              I remember this. He really didn't "work" for Halbert, but one of his first copy assignments was a Beat the Control for the original Halberts. He ended up beating it, and they gave him something like $500.

              Best,

              Angel
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        • Profile picture of the author PMinc
          Originally Posted by IM Viper View Post

          That's what Dan Kennedy did. He ended up getting a job working
          for a then unknown Gary Halbert....

          he seems to have gleaned a thing or two
          I believe it. Have you heard the interview Halbert did with Michel Fortin? He doesn't let up for a second on his mentee, Caleb.

          Still, it's all good-hearted in the end.

          http://www.michelfortin.com/gary-hal...tin-interview/
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  • Profile picture of the author metabinltd
    Get a copy of the copywriters handbook by bob bly. I've got a bookshelf full of copywriting books and this has to be the best one i've found so far.

    Allan forrest smiths videos are also good, he did some seminars with Brett McFall

    But Just do it is the best advice i can give, don't learn without starting to practice at the same time.
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  • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
    Hi Bob,

    If you haven't got this, Marketing Bullets | Gary's Arsenal, then you should.

    Names already mentioned in this thread, such as John Carlton and Clayton Makepeace studied
    this man's work...as if they were dogs on a trail findiing a bitch on heat!

    Need I say more..?

    I suspect not, if you are serious in your desire to rise above average.

    It's all sitting there for the taking...no charge...no sign up.

    All the best for your career,
    Ewen
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    • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
      Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

      Hi Bob,

      If you haven't got this, Marketing Bullets | Gary's Arsenal, then you should.
      WOW! That's like a marketing bootcamp

      What a great resource. Thanks for posting it (even though it is likely old news to most on here)
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  • Profile picture of the author NinjaBoy
    SWS anyday!
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  • Profile picture of the author OmarBriones
    These are all great resources! And it's definitely best to just start putting it into practice...

    I just gotta recommend the one program that has helped me out so much with my copy... Go to tednicholas.com/mp and you will get a super awesome deal on a whole bunch of stuff for trying his mentoring program out for 30 days... In case you don't know who Ted Nicholas is, he's the highest paid copy writer in the world.

    Other than that, I would recommend reading all the different marketing and influence books you can find... Yes 50 scientific ways to influence people is one of my favorites.

    Also, whenever you're checking out someone else's sales video, page, or emails, look at their copy and see how it works on you.

    Hope this helped!

    ~ Omar
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  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Yep...as my learned colleague has pointed out, the writing is the easy part. As Halbert said "Being on-target is much more important than being facile with words".

    But having said that...I think an enquiring mind is a great asset for a copywriter. Be interested in everything - no matter how banal. 'cause good research will help you be "on target" and it will be obvious that you know what you're talking about.

    Talking about being on target - http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...read-weep.html
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Williams
    Damn, I was all ready to tell you what to do until I read Mike's post. I guess he pretty much covered it all. Make sure you hit up those classic books! Salesmanship is timeless.
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  • Profile picture of the author pethanks
    There are lots there. What you did is a good start.
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  • Profile picture of the author patadeperro
    Have you read the Gary Halbert newsletter? I think it is a timeless education:

    The Gary Halbert Letter
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  • Profile picture of the author docsulo
    Originally Posted by Bob Conroy View Post

    Hey all,
    I have taken John Carlton's Simple Writing System Course, and have recently begun another online course for copywriting.

    What is the best beginner/intermediate course to take that will send you well prepared into the fray?
    Why take more courses?

    Take what you know and drill. That's what creates skill.

    If you want to do more learning before you start I'll give you a complete system that will make you a great copywriter but before I do you should know a few things...

    One of the difficulties in becoming a good copy-writer is that like salespeople (in-person or by phone) the measurement of success is in unit of sales vs. number of contacts; but unlike salespeople a copy-writer does not get immediate feedback on their results. So in order to get good at copywriting you must become FLUENT. Let me give you an analogy - when you go to a foreign country you may be able to learn some basics of the language before you go and then when you get there you get fluent through being immersed in the language in your daily everyday affairs (this is like tele-sales or face to face sales). However when you want to write a LETTER in a foreign language you must become FLUENT before you write the letter (this is like copywriting). And to become FLUENT in copy-writing and the creation of written appeals you either need to write a lot of copy and get immediate feedback (from the market and hopefully from copywriters that can point out where you can improve) OR you can take a few shortcuts that I'll mention in a moment...

    Here's another distinction... salespeople often sell ONE item (or type of item i.e. - cars) their entire career and being good at selling one product does not always translate into being skilled at salesmanship in general. I've seen stock brokers that made a 1/4 Million a year when they were selling stocks - then try to sell vacations and fail miserably. I've seen car salespeople who sold thousands of cars successfully and then moved to advertising sales and barely scraped by. This isn't always the case but it often is. People become good at specific things and it often DOES NOT generalize as much as you'd think.

    These facts say a few things to me:

    1. To be a true sales pro that can move from product to product and create pitches yourself you must understand sales in general (what you learned in the SWS course)

    2. you need to become fluent in creating appeals (see above)

    3. It's usually a good choice to be a copywriter that specializes if you can because you can often use the same appeals over and over in your area of expertise.


    So what are the shortcuts to becoming FLUENT? Is there a system to become a good copywriter WITHOUT practicing on unwitting clients? Can it be done without buying more courses?

    I think so.

    If you'd like to find out more and would like me to post the method here - let me know.
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by docsulo View Post

      If you want to do more learning before you start I'll give you a complete system that will If you'd like to find out more and would like me to post the method here - let me know.
      Hey Doc Sulo,

      I'd like you to post the method. I'm a believer that even old dogs CAN learn new tricks.

      So, toss this old dog a bone and post up.

      gjabiz
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  • Profile picture of the author jennymcroland
    Originally Posted by Bob Conroy View Post

    Hey all,
    I have taken John Carlton's Simple Writing System Course, and have recently begun another online course for copywriting.

    What is the best beginner/intermediate course to take that will send you well prepared into the fray?

    Thanks!
    visit globalline.biz to see the best resources on earth
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  • Profile picture of the author PMinc
    One piece of media I recommend is the interview Ken McCarthy did with Gary Bencivenga.

    Many copywriting view Gary as a God, but once they hear the interview and what he went through, you'll see just how accessible it is.
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    • Profile picture of the author Oxbloom
      Step 1: Read anything...ANYTHING...that will help you get the basic ideas. Any decent copywriting how-to would be fine. Any checklist given away free online would be fine. Certainly, Carlton's whole SWS is way beyond fine.

      Step 2: Start writing.

      Step 3: Digest feedback.

      Step 4: Go to step 2.
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  • Profile picture of the author kalens99
    Start writing, submitting to article directories and monitor traffic and conversion rates. know SEO, social marketing and come up with ideas how to monitor results on your own blog. Write free guest posts or press releases for others. Then, after you get their feedback and build a portfolio you can start charging money for your work.
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    • Profile picture of the author Pisaka
      Hi Bob!
      Personally I consider the "Emotional Hot Buttons" to be the best marketing e-book. Enjoy it, there is plenty of information to absorb!
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      Write articles on any topic in Russian/Ukrainian, make translations from English into Russian/Ukrainian.
      High quality of my work is guaranted.
      PM if you are interested.

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