Does Direct Mail really work?

32 replies
Hi All,

I know from my personal experience that mailing a sales letter works.

But when I participate in forums dedicated to my niche and I approach the subject, I'm instantly the odd-man-out, hit with, "Tried it, didn't work" or "Nobody reads that junk mail".

Saying, "It works for me, here's my results" or "Well, you need to have a properly written piece" fails to convince.

Can anyone point me to some statistics, statements or a website that will help me back up my statements to inexperienced marketers that Direct Mail can be very effective?

Thanks,
-Rob
#direct #mail #work
  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
    Originally Posted by perryny View Post

    Hi All,

    I know from my personal experience that mailing a sales letter works.

    But when I participate in forums dedicated to my niche and I approach the subject, I'm instantly the odd-man-out, hit with, "Tried it, didn't work" or "Nobody reads that junk mail".

    Saying, "It works for me, here's my results" or "Well, you need to have a properly written piece" fails to convince.

    Can anyone point me to some statistics, statements or a website that will help me back up my statements to inexperienced marketers that Direct Mail can be very effective?

    Thanks,
    -Rob
    So? Who cares what other people think?

    They're know nothings. Convinced of their opinion because they've mis-executed one-time and gave up and quit. BFD.

    What are you trying to accomplish? You want to sell these folks on your program? Trying to look good front of your peers? What is it?

    Time to grow some cajones, if you ask me.

    - Rick Duris

    PS: It took me a year to dial-in the marketing for my network engineering business. Multi-step sequence. 26% conversion assuming a targeted list and they went through the process.

    Mailing one time in the IT sector doesn't work--at all. That's what most people don't get. It requires a campaign.
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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      Yes, ultimately I'm trying to sell theses people on my product. They are computer consultants and (like me until recently) know nothing of how to effectively market their services using direct mail.

      If I enter a room with a hundred computer geeks who haven't a clue on how powerful a DM piece can be for growing their business, me being the sole voice saying "It works", especially when a thread on the subject is filled with "tried it, it doesn't", doesn't make me look like much an authority.
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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

      Mailing one time in the IT sector doesn't work--at all. That's what most people don't get. It requires a campaign.
      Yeah, I know. I wrote a 23 page instructional guide on how to modify, mail and follow-up with my sales letter so my customers could use it to achieve the 3.5% conversion rate I did.

      Looking forward to learning how to improve that conversion rate a bit, but 3.5% is still quite effective for the purposes of the letter and for my customers.
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      • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
        Hey Rob, how are you doing my friend..?

        Good to see you have got a 3.5 % conversion.

        Have any of the guys who bought your training program got a reasonable response from DM?

        Any new idea that doesn't agree with the auidence, has to go in from a point of agreement first and gradually make several other points which get the nod too. Then you can open up the possibility to a "weird little trick" that gets the results you and others get.

        Don't call it direct mail. That's the kill switch to your people.

        All the best,
        Ewen
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        • Profile picture of the author perryny
          Hi Ewen,

          Despite my promises and guarantees of conversion and stories of my own success using the very same letter and follow-up procedures... I know of only ONE customer who actually mailed out 100 letters and made follow-up calls to only 20 of them so far. And he doesn't sound too excited to follow-up with the remainder.

          It's cool though. Despite the fact that many of my customers don't seem to actually want to USE the product, they do express that they're very happy with it and see the potential of using it.

          You can lead a horse to water...

          If anyone could help me out with my originally posted request, I'd still really appreciate it. I have good use for the info.
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          • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
            The main thing about direct mail is it's usually a waste of
            money if you only mail one time.

            It's the repeated exposures that make direct mail work,
            usually.

            You can keep costs down by mailing a postcard with an 800 number
            or website on it - then folks can go and request a mail packet
            and you send them a real doozy.... then you call to ask if they
            got it, then you mail a followup 10 days later, then another in
            10 more days.

            At that point, if you're offer isn't totally sucky, in b2b you'll get people
            calling you just because you're persistent. If nothing else, business
            owners respect hustle and are often open to rewarding a persistent
            marketer, at least with feedback and encouragement.
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          • Profile picture of the author Irish Intuition
            I know of a business in my niche (not IM) that sends out
            around 750,000 postcards a year. They will gross about
            $3 million in sales. (72% of their business comes from DM)

            I know of many other businesses in the same niche that
            say "postcards are sh-t'.... none of which will break
            $100,000 in sales.

            I feel DM works as well as any type of ad, or as bad. We
            focus too much on the media and not enough on the
            message/offer or the recipient.

            IMHO
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            Originally Posted by perryny View Post

            Hi Ewen,

            It's cool though. Despite the fact that many of my customers don't seem to actually want to USE the product, they do express that they're very happy with it and see the potential of using it.

            You can lead a horse to water...

            If anyone could help me out with my originally posted request, I'd still really appreciate it. I have good use for the info.

            Rob,

            Yes you can actually make a horse drink the water...YOU PUT PLENTY OF SALT IN IT'S HAY!

            I did address the issue you were after in the second part of my first reply.

            All the best,
            Ewen
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            • Profile picture of the author perryny
              Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

              I did address the issue you were after in the second part of my first reply.
              Here's what's up. I go to one of my forums and a guy posts... "I'm thinking of mailing out a letter to promote my services. Do you think it's a good idea?"

              Now, 10 guys chime in, "Tried it. Huge waste of time. Doesn't work."

              Then I chime in, "It works great. It won't work if you just mail and expect the phone to ring. It needs to be part of a strategic campaign with proper follow-up. I know it works because I use it myself and it's actually more effective than any marketing I've done before."

              Then 10 more guys chime in, "Nope. doesn't work. If I get junk mail it goes straight in the trash."

              I'm a lone voice without support. I would like to direct these guys to some evidence that my statements ring true for more than just me.
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              • Profile picture of the author Hugh Thyer
                I think it's time for a bit of tough love.

                The unfortunate thing you're facing here is the fact that you can't motivate people. Your job in DM is to find people who are already motivated to do something and convince them that your way of doing it is the best.

                Your audience isn't ready for you yet. YES, they need you. And YES, what you're doing will work if done properly. But IT people particularly are very left brained. They see direct mail as 'junk mail' when in fact it's not. The way they think is different. They think people like looking at pictures of computers and burying themselves in statistics, and that's how they make decisions.

                For you to sell to this crowd means educating them. It's a long road, and it's a hard road. You need to show them proof; tons of it. You need to show them case studies. You need to take them aside and show them how it works one by one.

                They don't like direct mail. It goes against their way of thinking. They've tried it badly and failed. So they think the idea of direct mail doesn't work, not that they implemented it badly.

                By the time you've put in the effort to overcome this you could have been far more successful pursing clients who were ready for what you do.

                I had a contact years ago who was a life coach/masseur/whatever. And she was convinced that DM didn't work. Why? She'd tried a mailout and it failed. I was surprised...until I saw the letter. No campaign, just a crappy letter which failed just about every copywriting rule you could imagine. But she was convinced it didn't work in her industry. Do you think I tried to convince her otherwise? No. Didn't waste my time.

                Hugh
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                • Profile picture of the author perryny
                  Originally Posted by Hugh Thyer View Post

                  By the time you've put in the effort to overcome this you could have been far more successful pursing clients who were ready for what you do.
                  Bingo. Thank you.
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                  • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
                    Hi Rob,

                    I was thinking about your situation.

                    Here's what you can do to silence your critics and build yourself a nice side business:

                    Tell them you will do targeted mailings into their service areas on their behalf. Tell them you have a winning direct response campaign. And give them the stats.

                    Tell them you'll supply all the double-qualified leads they want for $150 each.

                    These leads will be fresh and called on within the last 3 business days, ready for a visit or audit or whatever your free offer is.

                    If they balk at the price (which they may) they're just posers. They were never serious in the first place.

                    Because anybody with a brain cell in their head realizes if they can close, selling a high ticket service (i.e. $1000+) , or continuity program, it's worth thousands a year.

                    In other words, the life time value is amazing. You really ARE selling $100 bills for a buck a piece--if the IT firm is competent and appreciates the value of a long term customer.

                    For an IT firm that can't figure out their marketing, your service would be a godsend--especially in this economy.

                    The best thing about this strategy is you never have to give away "the secret sauce." You don't have to license the campaign. You keep complete control of the crown jewels--the marketing sequence and pieces and the detailed metrics. Never to reveal.

                    And you get to refine the sequence as time goes on. Always improving.

                    This model works. You can set up the offer and compensation lots of different ways, but you have the essence of the model.

                    - Rick Duris
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                    • Profile picture of the author perryny
                      Thank you, Rick.

                      You've given me a lot to think about with this one. I'm also thinking this might make a fabulous up-sell.

                      Thanks again,
                      -Rob
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                    • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
                      Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post


                      Tell them you have a winning direct response campaign.
                      Rob,

                      They've already rejected the notion of direct response. And actually most professionals could care less how you get them leads ... as long as they're good ones. So I wouldn't mention direct response at all.

                      Alex
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                      • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
                        Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

                        Rob,

                        They've already rejected the notion of direct response. And actually most professionals could care less how you get them leads ... as long as they're good ones. So I wouldn't mention direct response at all.

                        Alex
                        #1: I said that to silence the critics.

                        #2: And I would mention it because people WILL ask where the leads are emanating from.

                        IT business owners absolutely do care about the source of the leads. When a business owner pays $150/lead and you tell them the process, they will think you a genius and pay all day long.

                        However, if when they ask, you say that the source is confidential or proprietary... all I can say is "Good luck with that."

                        - Rick Duris
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                        • Profile picture of the author IndigoJack
                          Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

                          #1: I said that to silence the critics.

                          #2: And I would mention it because people WILL ask where the leads are emanating from.

                          IT business owners absolutely do care about the source of the leads. When a business owner pays $150/lead and you tell them the process, they will think you a genius and pay all day long.

                          However, if when they ask, you say that the source is confidential or proprietary... all I can say is "Good luck with that."

                          - Rick Duris

                          Absolutely true. Some lead generating companies are somewhat belligerent when you query the source of leads - they just want you to shut up and pay.

                          Now, I could spend a few hours telecanning and generate my own leads but if I am paying someone to do it I expect their process to be somewhat more sophisticated and selective than that.

                          I have a business aquaintance who was paying £1000 per lead - the leads supplied were dead ends. When queried the company basically told him it was his fault for not converting the leads!

                          Trying to polish a turd can be very expensive.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
                          Originally Posted by RickDuris View Post

                          #1: I said that to silence the critics.

                          #2: And I would mention it because people WILL ask where the leads are emanating from.

                          IT business owners absolutely do care about the source of the leads. When a business owner pays $150/lead and you tell them the process, they will think you a genius and pay all day long.

                          However, if when they ask, you say that the source is confidential or proprietary... all I can say is "Good luck with that."

                          - Rick Duris
                          I would tell them "The Internet". But I wouldn't mention direct response. It means nothing to them.

                          And the silencing the critics idea is a waste of time.

                          When I was generating leads for Business Brokers, they knew about direct mail, telemarketing, and the internet. That's it.

                          Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author Warren.Richards
    Hey perryny,
    Show them your checks and they might believe you.

    On the other hand if you really want them to believe you(do this only if it's important for your business and not if you just want to show off in front of your peers) select few of your existing customers and train them. Give them coaching an intense coaching. Tell them few secret tricks of yours that help you convert. Personal coaching is always excepted.

    This way if you have any student with a success story, he will speak on your behalf and that's what you want right.

    People don't believe on our success but they will believe on someone else success story talking on your behalf.

    I hope you are getting what I'm trying to say.

    Happy to Help

    Warren.
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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      Originally Posted by Warren.Richards View Post

      select few of your existing customers and train them.
      Please believe me Warren, this is much easier said than done. When it gets down to brass tacks, you hear a whole lotta "I'm not quite ready yet. As soon as I take care of so and so..."

      I think I've gotta raise my prices. If I get these guys paying a grand a pop, darn straight they'll actually use the stuff.

      Thanks for the advice.
      -Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Rob,

    I'm really glad to hear your mailing did so well. Massive congrats, my man.

    For what it's worth... I think Rick's advice is freaking golden.

    -Dan
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    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

      Rob,

      I'm really glad to hear your mailing did so well. Massive congrats, my man.

      For what it's worth... I think Rick's advice is freaking golden.

      -Dan
      Dan, My Man!

      So sorry for not keeping you in the loop. It's been pretty wild since testing the mailing. Right along side testing the letter, I ran my first product launch, which also went really well.

      So immediately following that, I jumped right into traffic generation so I could finally take advantage of all this good stuff I've got going by actually having some customers to sell to.

      Lots going on and we'll be talking real soon!

      Thanks for the congrats man. I owe you the same!
      -Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Hey Rob, My... Guy...

    It's cool - stuff gets in the way. I'm just glad to hear that letter and marketing plan did so well for you.

    Now we've got some results, I might hit you up for a more specific testimonial, if that's cool.

    Again... congrats on hitting it out of the park. Knowing how hard you work, I can't think of anyone who deserves it more.

    -Dan
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    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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    • Profile picture of the author perryny
      Well, I can tell everyone who's reading here that Daniel Scott is the MAN and if you need a hand making sure your copy gets results, then contact the guy toots-sweet!

      Now give me till tomorrow to write you up something proper.

      Thanks again, Dan. Lots more good stuff to come!
      -Rob
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    Rob, thanks for reaffirming my faith in direct mail. I think it has a LOT to do with the quality of the list that you're renting, and since you're paying postage on each letter mailed (and printing costs, etc) it would be foolish to try to cut costs with a cheap list of unknown quality! I'm sure you rented a high quality list for your mailing. By the way, what type of services/products are you selling with your direct mail?
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  • Profile picture of the author paulie888
    Sorry Rob, I didn't notice your signature link to Perry Consulting, lol. Sounds like you have a wide array of services, do you mainly service corporations and businesses within your immediate area in New York City?
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  • Profile picture of the author IndigoJack
    In the age of recycling the majority of DM goes directly into the recycling bin at the door.

    All that money spent on designing, printing, delivering.

    All that time spent on creating the right mood on your mailer, the right text content and all that happens is that it ends up being turned into a paper cup.

    It is not at all cost effective. You are blanket sweeping an area in the hope of hitting your needle in the haystack - that one person who will actually buy.

    There are exceptions. For example the local gardener who mailshots his area - it'll work for him. Or the person that can afford to place their mailer in a newspaper - preferably a national title - it'll work for them.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeHumphreys
      Originally Posted by IndigoJack View Post

      In the age of recycling the majority of DM goes directly into the recycling bin at the door.

      All that money spent on designing, printing, delivering.

      All that time spent on creating the right mood on your mailer, the right text content and all that happens is that it ends up being turned into a paper cup.
      What do you suppose is happening with most email these days? 4 years ago, marketers were getting open rates of 75-80%. Now, open rates of 25-30% for email is more often the norm.

      The problem is most people do direct mail incorrectly and try it once... then complain that it didn't work for them.

      It is not at all cost effective. You are blanket sweeping an area in the hope of hitting your needle in the haystack - that one person who will actually buy.
      Completely false.

      If you chose the right prospects to target and get a list of those prospects or customers (a.k.a your house list), then it's highly targeted.

      Earlier this year, I wrote a 14 page direct mail letter that have pulled $70K in the first 3 days of the promotion. When I owned a massage therapy center years ago, one of my direct mail pieces pulled a 17% response rate from my house list.

      According to DM News, business direct mail has been increasing in use in 2010, not declining. Information publishers like Agora, Boardroom, and Rodale are increasing their mailings, not cutting them back.

      And many of them are mailing bigger mailing pieces, not smaller. I just finished a 24 page salesletter for a major mailer and the first mail-out will be to a list of 500K targeted prospects. We'll track the response rates and then roll out to even larger lists from there.

      As for response rate... it depends on what you're selling and who you target with your offer. ROI is actually more important than conversion rate.

      Case in point: If you're selling high-end cosmetic dentistry where the average patient is worth $5-10K, then you don't need a high conversion rate to have a very profitable direct mail campaign.

      If it's a lead generation piece, then you may be fine with taking a small loss on the front end because you have a number of back-end offers already lined up to offer that new customer.

      There are exceptions. For example the local gardener who mailshots his area - it'll work for him.
      Not likely unless his average new customer is worth $10-20K... then he's not going to care about the response rate as long as he's getting positive ROI on his mailings.

      Of course, I know a college dropout who built a 8 figure per year in sales painting company using direct mail as his primary marketing method.

      Or the person that can afford to place their mailer in a newspaper - preferably a national title - it'll work for them.
      That's an ad insert or a piggy-back flier. That's not direct mail in the traditional sense because you don't have any control over the list (or list segment) being used and it means you're probably poorly targeting. Maybe with a national newspaper like the Wall Street Journal, you can select an area to mail to, but it's not nearly as easy to target with as traditional direct mail.

      Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author dollarswealth
    Direct mailling is one of the most effective way to market if you know what you are doing. It needs patience but once you have gotten a customer he remains loyal.
    It takes about 7 emails for you ad to be noticed. so you will have to keep trying.
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  • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Hank Rearden
      Tech guys are all children who need you to see how powerful their knowledge is.

      Going "against their grain" is just going to screw you over.

      PM the guy. Take it privately.

      You can't "win" against a tech guy in public.

      Ever.

      - HR
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      I swear by my life and my love of it that I will
      never live for the sake of another man, nor ask
      another man to live for mine.
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  • Profile picture of the author danlew
    Does any thing in life really work? It's not what you do it's how you apply it!
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  • Profile picture of the author PoolWarrior
    Just ask your self :

    How many direct mailing companies exist in your area ?
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  • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
    I would be interested in an info product like this for sure. I can never seem to find any newer products or info about how direct mailing works TODAY. ...Or I can find them, but don't trust the product creator.
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