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Partially done with a rough draft... your thoughts so far?

by Mike Schwenk
13 replies
A little info first:

Maybe I shouldn't bother, but I was excited to get my first client. That is, until they showed me their product.

First of all... they have no proof/credibility elements that I can use.

They've told me that they can't use any testimonials at this point anyway because clickbank doesn't allow it on new products because they can't verify sales (is this true?)

To boot, they don't even want to use their name or picture.

All of this, combined with a few other things... has really kept me from being too excited about it all.

Just doesn't feel right. And it's hard to get excited about a product when the owner doesn't even seem to be.

So I'm not sure yet, but given that I could use the experience regardless... I decided to write about it for practice anyway.

Aside from the fact that it's not finished, I know it needs work...

I'm trying to be conversational, trying to side with potential prospects, etc. But when I read it out loud it sounds kind of flat. I'm going to try to add a little more emotion when I go back to edit.

Am I right that it is sounding too much like an article?

I also realize that I should probably highlight the benefits of the product as I am doing with the topic of affiliate marketing itself, but...

I just wanted to build up to the actual offer first and THEN obviously touch on them [product benefits].

Thoughts?


PS - If you were just starting out, would you bother to take on this sort of project? Proof and credibility are very important and there's nothing available for me to add it into the letter.

PPS - Hopefully .doc format works ok. I wanted to use that because it retains the little bit of text that I highlighted.

Thanks!

Attachment 5783

If you need it converted let me know. Or try this: http://www.freefileconvert.com/
#draft #partially #rough #thoughts
  • Profile picture of the author The Copy Nazi
    Banned
    Mike, it "doesn't feel right" because your heart's not in it. And it reads like thousands of other salespages out there. Personally I can't stand the "It's not your fault" line - its hackneyed. Every mother's son has used it. It's up there with "Who else wants".

    The analogy of the Gold Rush has been flogged to death also.

    Why not junk this draft and rewrite it as if you're explaining affiliate marketing to your best friend and then segué into the specific product? Like this -
    "Dude...you know about affiliate marketing? Some people are making incredible money doing it. Best bit is you don't need any expensive gear or stock - you just need your computer and you need to know how to drive traffic to the offer. And its amazing what some of these affiliate programs will pay you. Usually it's 50% but sometimes you can get 75%. If you're promoting a $2000 product (like a lot of the "make money online" stuff) you only need a few sales to make it all worthwhile.

    Check this kid out. He only started affiliate marketing 6 months ago and already he's making $5k a month! And he's still at school.

    I can see you going "this sounds like a con". Wrong. Perfectly legit and respectable. Check out Clickbank.com. There's thousands of products on there that you can promote as an affiliate. All you do is register a domain name for $10, get some hosting for about $5 a month and then whack up a Wordpress site - don't worry...its easy...I'll show you how. And away you go. Passive income Dude. The money is paid out regularly into your PayPal account.

    Anyway...have a look at this particular program. Its been produced especially for new affiliate marketers like you and I. Its like a fast-track to making money online. Here's what it does. Oh yeah...you can download and use it FREE for the first month. Pretty cool eh?
    blah blah blah

    If I were just starting out would I bother to take this on? Maybe. But I wouldn't put my name to it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Schwenk
      Originally Posted by Metronicity View Post

      Mike, it "doesn't feel right" because your heart's not in it. And it reads like thousands of other salespages out there. Personally I can't stand the "It's not your fault" line - its hackneyed. Every mother's son has used it. It's up there with "Who else wants".

      The analogy of the Gold Rush has been flogged to death also.

      Why not junk this draft and rewrite it as if you're explaining affiliate marketing to your best friend and then segué into the specific product? Like this -
      blah blah blah

      If I were just starting out would I bother to take this on? Maybe. But I wouldn't put my name to it.

      Mal,

      Thanks for your response. I completely agree about the "not your fault line" and I tried to think of something else but I drew a blank at the time.

      And yeah... I will probably have to go back and scrap the analogy with the gold rush as well. I've heard it once or twice before, but I didn't realize it was so terribly cliched.

      I tried not to get too cute about it because I've been told that a lot of people don't like or can't properly understand things when presented transparently.

      Back to the board!

      Thanks again...
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      • Profile picture of the author Ross Bowring
        Mike, good talking on the phone a few weeks back.

        Good news is you've got very solid writing skills.

        Bad news is it reads kinda dry right now. No emotional spark. No unexpected word choices to draw a reader in. No original and brutally honest truths you and the reader can bond over.

        And there must be more of a hook in there somewhere. Something that's new/different about the approach... or that just gives an old approach a fresh new name.

        The goldmine stuff isn't terrible... you could just get the same point across in one paragraph, not 5 or 6. But I think the bigger hook... the angle that can bring this alive... is the one you haven't come up with yet.

        Hope this helps Mike,

        --- Ross
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Schwenk
          Originally Posted by Ross Bowring View Post

          Mike, good talking on the phone a few weeks back.

          Good news is you've got very solid writing skills.

          Bad news is it reads kinda dry right now. No emotional spark. No unexpected word choices to draw a reader in. No original and brutally honest truths you and the reader can bond over.

          And there must be more of a hook in there somewhere. Something that's new/different about the approach... or that just gives an old approach a fresh new name.

          The goldmine stuff isn't terrible... you could just get the same point across in one paragraph, not 5 or 6. But I think the bigger hook... the angle that can bring this alive... is the one you haven't come up with yet.

          Hope this helps Mike,

          --- Ross
          Hey Ross,

          Likewise and thanks for your comments!

          And I think the unfortunate truth in the case of this product is that there really is no unique hook. In my opinion, it's pretty standard stuff.

          Perhaps I'll review the product once more, see if I can gather any additional notes and if it seems like a dead end... I may just have to forget it.

          It would hurt to do that though, considering this is my first gig and I definitely don't want to let myself or a client down.

          But...

          My favorite Schwartz quote: "A gifted product is mightier than a gifted pen..."

          I forgot another problem with the product: It's currently priced at $47 and doesn't even include any premiums. Just ten videos...

          Upon mentioning this, I was told something along the lines of "Well, there's a bunch of decent PLR stuff, right?" :rolleyes:

          Thanks again, Ross...
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    Mike,

    Writing for something you're not excited about is hard.

    BUT... most of us have to do it at some point.

    Not every product you write for is going to be unique.

    So in that case... you need to create a hook in the story.

    Having said all that... it's obvious to you (and us) that this project is dead in the water before you start.

    You've tried to advise your client of the mistakes and they don't wanna hear it.

    SO... you've got a choice...

    Do the best you can with what you've got... hand it to the client... and wash your hands of it...

    OR... you can refund their money, and ditch the project.

    It's not a decision we can make for you. But be aware that this project might be more trouble when it's worth if your client whinges your copy isn't converting (despite the many faults you've pointed out).

    All that aside... I'm impressed by your writing skills.

    Sure... this letter's dry and boring, and a little cliched, as Ross and Mal mentioned.

    But if this was something really juicy... I think we'd have a pretty good letter on our hands.

    Don't know if any of this helped. Just my thoughts based on being in a similar position once or twice.

    -Dan
    Signature

    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Schwenk
      Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

      Mike,

      Writing for something you're not excited about is hard.

      BUT... most of us have to do it at some point.

      Not every product you write for is going to be unique.

      So in that case... you need to create a hook in the story.

      Having said all that... it's obvious to you (and us) that this project is dead in the water before you start.

      You've tried to advise your client of the mistakes and they don't wanna hear it.

      SO... you've got a choice...

      Do the best you can with what you've got... hand it to the client... and wash your hands of it...

      OR... you can refund their money, and ditch the project.

      It's not a decision we can make for you. But be aware that this project might be more trouble when it's worth if your client whinges your copy isn't converting (despite the many faults you've pointed out).

      All that aside... I'm impressed by your writing skills.

      Sure... this letter's dry and boring, and a little cliched, as Ross and Mal mentioned.

      But if this was something really juicy... I think we'd have a pretty good letter on our hands.

      Don't know if any of this helped. Just my thoughts based on being in a similar position once or twice.

      -Dan
      Hey Daniel,

      Thank you for your response...

      And considering some of the constructive lashings I've seen you deal out, I'll certainly take your compliment to heart (haha).

      As far as my decision, I realize the benefits to both choices.

      Now I just have to make the decision itself...

      I think the only reason I'm still at it, is simply because it's my first client and not only do I not want to let someone down... I also have a sense of obligation to myself.

      But in truth, as we all know... completing a piece is one thing. Creating a winner is another.

      And with the weak offer and lack of proof, I think it's obvious how effective mostly any copy would be in this situation.

      Either way, I might toy with it to get some practice. If I move on, hopefully I'll get another shot elsewhere soon.

      Despite everything I've learned so far... I'm still not too educated on getting clients.

      Thanks again guys...

      Edit:

      Oh and I at least went back so far to get rid of that nagging "not your fault" bit. I switched a few things around to read:

      Don’t feel bad…
      The truth is that there are many people just like you that have jumped through the same hoops, only to be left to dry.
      The Point Is… You’re Not Alone!
      I know because I’ve been there, too!
      Perhaps that may also sound a bit cliche, but I think it will probably sound a bit better than the original.
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    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Hey Mike,

      Affilliate marketing is a hot topic right now.

      Alexa has it in the top 10 searched online now.

      Anyway back to your situation. Since your client isn't giving you
      much to work with, you might have to dig up interesting facts
      about affiliate marketing.

      From there your unique point of differece can be, despite all the[list names of all the different aspects of aff. marketing] this method
      gets the job done, has been the foundation start for many online millionaires,
      they still do it, and this training gets them on the fast track.

      And if you want proof of this, Traffic Voodoo is in the top 10
      most searched item at Alexa today. That is driven by affiliates.

      Those facts become your undeniable proof.

      Some of the big $2,000 product launches use this method of selling
      the opportunity first because they don't have the results to speak
      of themselves.

      This is taking a bigger view of the situation and how your clients
      product fits into the mix.

      One of the bonuses can be a list of affiliate programs available.
      They can include big ticket pysical items too. A warrior has a list of these.

      This is what's called strategic marketing.

      Fire away if any of this hasn't made sense.

      All the best,
      Ewen
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Schwenk
        Originally Posted by ewenmack View Post

        Hey Mike,

        Affilliate marketing is a hot topic right now.

        Alexa has it in the top 10 searched online now.

        Anyway back to your situation. Since your client isn't giving you
        much to work with, you might have to dig up interesting facts
        about affiliate marketing.

        From there your unique point of differece can be, despite all the[list names of all the different aspects of aff. marketing] this method
        gets the job done, has been the foundation start for many online millionaires,
        they still do it, and this training gets them on the fast track.

        And if you want proof of this, Traffic Voodoo is in the top 10
        most searched item at Alexa today. That is driven by affiliates.

        Those facts become your undeniable proof.

        Some of the big $2,000 product launches use this method of selling
        the opportunity first because they don't have the results to speak
        of themselves.

        This is taking a bigger view of the situation and how your clients
        product fits into the mix.

        One of the bonuses can be a list of affiliate programs available.
        They can include big ticket pysical items too. A warrior has a list of these.

        This is what's called strategic marketing.

        Fire away if any of this hasn't made sense.

        All the best,
        Ewen
        Hey Ewen,

        Actually all of that makes perfect sense.

        I've been focusing on too many specifics thus far, so I really haven't thought about it like that... so thank you for the suggestion!

        -Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
          Originally Posted by Mike Schwenk View Post

          Hey Ewen,

          Actually all of that makes perfect sense.

          I've been focusing on too many specifics thus far, so I really haven't thought about it like that... so thank you for the suggestion!

          -Mike
          See how once you get the big picture and how the product fits into the mix,
          you can position it the right way and have great confidence going in writing the
          sales message.

          All that work goes in FIRST before writing a word.

          Fire away if you need more help.

          All the best,
          Ewen
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          • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
            Hey Mike,

            If this is aimed at people who have never been involved in
            affiliate marketing, [better get agreement with client] then
            your approach can be about the exciting opportunity it is,
            [hope you get excited after you dig up the facts, numbers
            and case studies].

            Next you tell of one glaring problem and go into it a bit.

            That is when you introduce the product which solves the problem.

            If the product is aimed at readers who are familiar with affiliate marketing,
            [get client agreement] then your approach is to name all the different skills
            needed for the different types of internet marketing. Then tell it's no wonder
            the reader gets so confused and jumps around from one thing to another...
            ...and has nothing to show for it.

            You next drill down to the problems of different aspects of affiliate marketing
            that people mess up with, then come in with the product.

            See, different approaches for different target audience.

            Needs to be clarified with client so that takes off the blame if it misfires.

            Once again, this is the work which needs to be done before you write a word.

            All the best,
            Ewen

            P.S. Rich Schefren launched into the internet marketing scene in a big way
            by pointing out all the different aspects and skills needed to do internet
            marketing. Rich then lead into how in an offline business that number of
            skills needed was way less and you could succeed very well.

            So that lead to the aha moment of his target audience and the open mind
            for his solution.
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  • Profile picture of the author RentItNow
    Mike, I would say you need to understand the product's uniqueness a bit more and lead with that (not the problem). Tell me right away why I should listen to your message. Why is it different than the 50,000 other ones that say the same thing. I already know the frustration, tell me why I should believe you can solve it. Give me that AHA moment in the first paragraph.
    Signature
    I have no agenda but to help those in the same situation. This I feel will pay the bills.
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    • Profile picture of the author RickDuris
      Hi Mike,

      Congratulations.

      I think you unintentionally tripped over an important rule for copywriters--you have to be inspired to do your best work.

      The only question is inspired by what?

      You could be inspired by the product.

      Or inspired that you're working with a prestigious Client.

      Or that you have to pay the mortgage.

      Or that this is your very first paying project, and you need something to put in your portfolio.

      Or that this could be a signature piece for you, the one that gets you future work.

      Just because there are obstacles, doesn't mean anything. Copywriters regularly work with a lot less--and in fact, it's common that the less they have to work with, the more they get paid.

      The only question is "how inspired are you?"

      - Rick Duris
      Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Alexander
    Hey Mike, I think it's a great sign that you're willing to ask for, and work on valuable feedback.

    The fact that you want to be passionate about it is sign enough that you're different from the other zillion guys who don't train, haven't tried to, and see a few IM letters and are suddenly the world's next best copywriter (I can't tell if I'm still in that phase or not ).

    I always love seeing folks strive to better their work and actually take an interest in how they can do so from those in a position to offer that help.

    Awesome
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