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For those of you new to copywriting, I recommend (with one caveat) that you study successful space ads. Specifically, space ads that ran in magazines years ago.

As you read them, pick out the various persuasion components.

Joe Karbo's famous ad is a good example ...

Popular Science - Google Books

Notice how the headline and subhead grab the reader's attention with incongruency. The ad also has excellent social proof, credibility, and uses a 31-day hold.

And interestingly, a significant portion of the ad addresses objections.

Okay, here's the caveat. The space ads of old were limited to the size of the magazine page and didn't contain all the components necessary to sell successfully on the web today.

Alex
#ads #space
  • Thanks Alex,

    I write a lot of space Ads and have done for years.

    It's always great to read the classics.
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    • Profile picture of the author Collette
      Here's another good reason to study successful space ads:

      It costs actual MONEY to run the damn things.

      Unlike the bottom-feeding, "how-little-can-I-pay-a-copywriter" mentality that resides in much of Internet Marketing, these companies are paying good money to have someone write these ads. They're not just slapping up some cliched, 48 pt font barf with faked screenshots on a page for $7.95 a month.

      And don't be fooled by the size, or the location of these ads. Or by what they're selling. Those ugly, fuzzy-topped Grandma slippers? HUGE seller. These ads are making these companies a lot of coin.

      None of these ads are glossy, "look-at-how-cool-my-brand-is" ads. They are all direct response ads that ask for the sale.

      Want some modern-day examples? Check out the ads in Parade mag (the Sunday newspaper insert). Or the ubiquitous ads from Franklin Mint, selling everything from gold coins to finger-sized dolls that pee.

      If you watch this stuff over the course of several months, you'll see some of the same ads appearing again and again. Those are your control ads.

      Now, I know these ads are going to seem pretty tame and definitely un-sexy for the mostly testerone-loving crowd that gathers here. But consider this...

      A 1/2 page ad in Parade goes for @ $553,700. Want teh back cover? That'll set you back a cool $1,136,300 or so.

      Consider, fellow campers... D'ya think it's possible that you can learn something from advertisers who can - and are willing to - spend up to $1,136,300 selling ugly, fuzzy-topped Grandma slippers or pastel-colored, elastic-waist trousers?
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      • Profile picture of the author ARSuarez
        Originally Posted by Collette View Post

        Here's another good reason to study successful space ads:

        It costs actual MONEY to run the damn things.

        Unlike the bottom-feeding, "how-little-can-I-pay-a-copywriter" mentality that resides in much of Internet Marketing, these companies are paying good money to have someone write these ads. They're not just slapping up some cliched, 48 pt font barf with faked screenshots on a page for $7.95 a month.

        And don't be fooled by the size, or the location of these ads. Or by what they're selling. Those ugly, fuzzy-topped Grandma slippers? HUGE seller. These ads are making these companies a lot of coin.

        None of these ads are glossy, "look-at-how-cool-my-brand-is" ads. They are all direct response ads that ask for the sale.

        Want some modern-day examples? Check out the ads in Parade mag (the Sunday newspaper insert). Or the ubiquitous ads from Franklin Mint, selling everything from gold coins to finger-sized dolls that pee.

        If you watch this stuff over the course of several months, you'll see some of the same ads appearing again and again. Those are your control ads.

        Now, I know these ads are going to seem pretty tame and definitely un-sexy for the mostly testerone-loving crowd that gathers here. But consider this...

        A 1/2 page ad in Parade goes for @ $553,700. Want teh back cover? That'll set you back a cool $1,136,300 or so.

        Consider, fellow campers... D'ya think it's possible that you can learn something from advertisers who can - and are willing to - spend up to $1,136,300 selling ugly, fuzzy-topped Grandma slippers or pastel-colored, elastic-waist trousers?
        Collette,

        This post got me all hot under the collar.

        I didn't know those spots went for so much.

        Regards,

        Angel
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        • Profile picture of the author Collette
          When you consider how awful most of those items are, it's pretty damn amazing, isn't it?

          But SOMEBODY - a LOT of "somebodies" - is buying these things.

          Now, where did I put my pink faux marabou fur slip-ons...
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      • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
        Originally Posted by Collette View Post

        Here's another good reason to study successful space ads:

        It costs actual MONEY to run the damn things.

        Want some modern-day examples? Check out the ads in Parade mag (the Sunday newspaper insert). Or the ubiquitous ads from Franklin Mint, selling everything from gold coins to finger-sized dolls that pee.

        Now, I know these ads are going to seem pretty tame and definitely un-sexy for the mostly testerone-loving crowd that gathers here. But consider this...

        A 1/2 page ad in Parade goes for @ $553,700. Want teh back cover? That'll set you back a cool $1,136,300 or so.
        The companies running The Franklin Mint, EdenPure, etc ads you see are NOT paying rate card prices. The companies placing these direct response ads are buying them at remnant prices. The only idiots paying full boat are the clients of advertising agency placed ads 'cause they (the ad agency) are making 15% off the retail rate card.

        I've posted all this before, but I guess I need to post it once a year for all the fresh meat coming into this game. Here's a screen shot I took a few years back showing the rates I paid to run a FULL PAGE ad in various newspapers:



        HEADs UP and note the dayem DISCOUNT off the rate card. I averaged 94% of list!
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        • Profile picture of the author Collette
          Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle View Post

          The companies running The Franklin Mint, EdenPure, etc ads you see are NOT paying rate card prices. ...I guess I need to post it once a year for all the fresh meat coming into this game.

          ...HEADs UP and note the dayem DISCOUNT off the rate card. I averaged 94% of list!

          I didn't say they were. And my point - which you apparently missed - is that companies that run print ads understand they have to commit money to their marketing. Which is a concept that is in short supply in these parts.

          But thanks anyway for the fly-by insult. Merry Christmas to you, too.
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          • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
            Originally Posted by Collette View Post

            I didn't say they were. And my point - which you apparently missed - is that companies that run print ads understand they have to commit money to their marketing. Which is a concept that is in short supply in these parts.

            But thanks anyway for the fly-by insult. Merry Christmas to you, too.
            "Fly-by insult"? Where? Mighty thin-skinned crowd here of late.

            In your post your PIKING retail card rates and, in the same breath, direct response space ads:
            Originally Posted by Collette View Post

            ... fellow campers... D'ya think it's possible that you can learn something from advertisers who can - and are willing to - spend up to $1,136,300 selling ugly, fuzzy-topped Grandma slippers or pastel-colored, elastic-waist trousers?
            My post was to inform the NOOBs that direct response companies (here in the States) would buy remnant space instead of retail rate card space (at a substantial discount). You didn't mention this fact in your post so I added a little bit of information to the conversation. And you got insulted because this? Oy vey!
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            • Profile picture of the author Collette
              I am neither a piker nor "fresh meat". And the point that cheaper rates are available had already been made by Steve, albeit sans rudeness.

              Whatev.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
                Originally Posted by Collette View Post

                And the point that cheaper rates are available had already been made by Steve,
                Yep, he said cheaper and my guess few would know what cheaper really means. I, on the other hand, showed what cheaper means by showing proof and not just by saying it.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
                Originally Posted by Collette View Post

                I am neither a piker nor "fresh meat".
                I did not call you "fresh meat" ... read it again.

                You did PIKE:
                Originally Posted by Collette View Post

                ... D'ya think it's possible that you can learn something from advertisers who can - and are willing to - spend up to $1,136,300 selling ugly, fuzzy-topped Grandma slippers or pastel-colored, elastic-waist trousers?
                Yep, what you can learn is that an ad agency emailing a PDF of some previously place ad... in some other publication... to Parade Magazine will earn a whoppin' $170,445.00 for their 1 minute of "effort."

                A direct response firm would never pay retail (unless the company was run by idiots) because they'd be $1,136,300.00 in the hole right out of the gate! Hmm... lets see... 2010 Silver Eagle Graduation Dollar at $49.95 would mean they'd have to sell 22,749 of them just to cover their nut on the ad cost. Oh yeah... that's doable! LOL

                There's your lesson.
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            • Profile picture of the author Bacchus
              Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle View Post

              "Fly-by insult"? Where? Mighty thin-skinned crowd here of late.
              I think it is a cultural thing, Mr Subtle. In the UK, Pike, Piker, Pikey are all racist terms that used to be used against the Romani people, and frankly you'll get the same response to them as you would if you were call a black man in america the N word.

              It obviously means a different thing in the US.

              By the way, I agree with your post... makes perfect sense.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrandonLee
    Also good to study them because they are still a hell of a good way to drive very high quality traffic to your site.
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    • Most of the newspaper and magazine ads I run for clients in the UK – cost on average £2,750 a pop (which includes all the possible discounts). They are not all direct response ads.

      I’m not sure what that equates to in dollars.

      Some clients run 5 a week.

      Writing a good space ad – is the ultimate in “gun to the head” advertising.

      And despite doing it for 20 years – it’s still as scary as hell.

      They must work – because of the cost there is no lieu way for “testing” dozens of different headlines, subheads or offers.

      You’ve got to somehow in someway get it right first time or at the absolute latest the second time – or the gun goes off.

      And the client explodes.
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      • Profile picture of the author ARSuarez
        Originally Posted by Steve Copywriter View Post

        Most of the newspaper and magazine ads I run for clients in the UK - cost on average £2,750 a pop.

        I'm not sure what that equates to in dollars.

        Some clients run 5 a week.

        Writing a good space ad - is the ultimate in "gun to the head" advertising.

        And despite doing it for 20 years - it's still as scary as hell.

        They must work - because of the cost there is no lieu way for "testing" dozens of different headlines, subheads or offers.

        You've got to somehow in someway get it right first time or at the absolute latest the second time - or the gun goes off.

        And the client explodes.
        Not sure about in the UK, but it is still possible to negotiate a Pay Per Inquiry (PPI) with savvy magazines and newspapers for space ads in the US.

        Some. Not as many as I would like.

        Best,

        Angel
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      • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
        Originally Posted by Steve Copywriter View Post

        They must work - because of the cost there is no lieu way for "testing" dozens of different headlines, subheads or offers.
        You could run CPV or PPC campaigns to test headlines and subheads.

        Alex
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
    Merry Christmas you two.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mr. Subtle
      Merry Festivus to you Bruce (and every one).
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      • Profile picture of the author Bruce Wedding
        Originally Posted by Mr. Subtle View Post

        Merry Festivus to you Bruce (and every one).
        Oops, I forgot. Would you prefer the Muslim inspired, "Happy Holidays"?

        PS: You ever gonna answer my email?
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        • Honestly...

          I didn't mean to start any arguments on rate card prices.

          I do get discounts in the UK - by negotiating with the various media.

          Or getting the clients to use a good media buying agency (not an Ad agency) where you get the best deals.

          But despite all that - magazine and newspaper rates even with the discounts are still expensive.

          Anyway...

          Merry Christmas to everyone.
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          • Profile picture of the author Collette
            Originally Posted by Steve Copywriter View Post

            Honestly...

            I didn't mean to start any arguments on rate card prices.

            ....
            You didn't start anything, Steve. You made a perfectly valid and useful point. Without being bloody rude and overbearing about it.
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            • Hey Collette,

              I'm bracing myself... and actually hoping that our good friend Mr S is now enjoying his festive break and has forgotten all about this thread...

              And if by chance he hasn't - please don't take any of his comments personally.

              I can't remember if he has ever had a pop at me on this or other copywriting boards (he probably has) - but despite his style - at times he really does have some gems of advice.
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  • Profile picture of the author aandersen
    Originally Posted by Matt Jutras View Post

    Mr.Subtle,

    Any pointers on how to get discounts like that?

    Thanks!
    Yes, please, Mr. Subtle, I'm very interested to know as well.

    I am a noob, and I have no problem admitting that. However, I am looking at purchasing my first space ad in the near future, and according to magazine's rate card I'm looking at a little over $9k for a 1/4 page. If there are ways to secure discounts (without owning an ad agency) I would love to learn about them.

    I'm not in a rush, I have plenty of time to learn the ropes before forking out any cash. So, if you got a book, website, product, or some direction you could point me in, I would be very apprciative.

    thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author Collette
      Originally Posted by aandersen View Post

      ... I am looking at purchasing my first space ad in the near future, and according to magazine's rate card I'm looking at a little over $9k for a 1/4 page. If there are ways to secure discounts (without owning an ad agency) I would love to learn about them.
      Typical direct response rates will run @ 40% - 50% off for magazines. Some magazines will only offer remnant space to direct response advertisers, but this is changing. It's always worth asking.

      If this is your first time out, you might want to consider a media buy agency, and get a feel for the process. Otherwise, I've had a few clients use mediabids DOT com successfully. There's a fair amount to learn so that you don't - even at the discount rate - waste your investment.

      With remnant space, you usually can't pick a publication date, but have to work with a window of possible publication dates. This is fine if your ad is for an evergreen type of product, but may not be the best option for you if your product is tied to a theme or season.

      I also have clients that have used co-op advertising successfully. With co-op, you share the advertising costs with one or more other advertisers. This can sometimes be a good option for some brick and mortar businesses.

      For newspaper ads, you can get discounts on space ads for up to 80% - 90% of published rates. The newspapers you're looking at (with those discounts) are usually small regional papers, not the big national ones, and almost never the main papers of a large city. These ads can still be a good choice, though, depending on what you're selling.

      You CAN get remnant space for the big dailies, but your discounts won't be as deep.
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