Selling stuff or writing copy?

15 replies
Hi guys. A few of you know me now. Thanks for all the guidance.

So it seems like guys here are making a living. That's awesome. I want to make a living.

Some are writing copy, some are selling affilliate stuff, some are doing other jobs, some do them all.

I don't know where to begin.

I was looking into selling ps3 repair guides. How many man hours would it take me to make some money there?

Or maybe I should focus on direct marketing sales copy.

Write copy? Or sell products and write my own copy to sell those products?

So confused...

I do know that my savings are almost gone, and may have to get a job again. Ughh. About one month left unless I make magic happen. Not the end of the world. But uggh.

--------------------------

Ok I just read some more.

So you start a blog. Write great articles on the niche. Generate traffic. Sell product.

or.

Make your own product and do the same.

Or you go to elance and hire cheap labour to do it all for you and hope they aren't terrible.

Ok. Now I'm really overwhelmed.
#copy #selling #stuff #writing
  • Profile picture of the author GR Marketing
    I'd suggest you focus on learning how to write good salescopy. It's simply the best skill that any can ever learn how to do.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
      Sebastion,

      First, ask yourself, "What skills and experiences do I possess?".

      Second, ask yourself, "How can those skills and experiences be used to create value for others?". (It should be something that folks want.)

      Answer those two questions before doing anything else. Then it just becomes a matter of determining which business model to adopt.

      Be prepared to learn and learn and learn. And work hard.

      If you need somebody to bounce ideas off of, feel free to PM me.

      Alex
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    • Profile picture of the author waffle_pancakes
      Originally Posted by GR Marketing View Post

      I'd suggest you focus on learning how to write good salescopy. It's simply the best skill that any can ever learn how to do.
      I completely agree. If you can write a good copy, you can pretty much monetize your projects in just about any way from selling products, to writing good articles.
      Signature

      I should build an e-commerce site that only sells waffles. And maybe pancakes.

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  • Profile picture of the author 247Copywriter
    Your need (pain / trauma / frustration) right now as you stated is...

    To make some fast cash.

    You're not going to be able to accomplish this goal, writing 'direct marketing sales copy'. You've no prior experience. It takes a hell of a lot longer than you think to start writing very good, high converting sales copy.

    Too many people enter into this industry thinking copywriting is very easy. They see it as an easy option.

    The truth is...

    Nothing further could be from the truth...

    It will take you an enormous amount of man hours to learn copywriting properly. And any potentially good copywriter has an insatiable appetite for knowledge. If you're already feeling overwhelmed without even scratching the surface... it doesn't bode well for you to consider this as a viable alternative.

    I also detect a certain disdain in your attitude. Again, this doesn't bode well for you.

    Sure, you can write. But sales copy, no. Not at this stage. With plenty of practice, maybe. But you need cash right now. Copywriting is no shortcut to making a quick buck. There are other much easier alternatives.

    Have you considered writing articles instead? Don't write it off out of hand. I'm not suggesting you write articles for mere pennies. I've seen your style of writing, it's not bad. In fact, it's pretty good.

    Try and find some regular article writing clients on subjects which you are passionate about. Get in with the right people and you can easily charge good money. If you need advice about this, approach CDarklock or TMGEnterprises - both Warrior members. They're both commanding premium prices for article writing.

    It may just be that you have to swallow your pride and take whatever job is offered to you for now. If that means cleaning toilets, washing windows, working at McCrap... then so be it.

    At least it'll be bringing you in some money to make a start later on.

    Good luck.
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  • Profile picture of the author clever7
    Blogs won’t give you money unless you have a lot of traffic.

    Use free platforms like Squidoo and Hub pages to make some money without spending anything.

    If you are a good writer, write articles for Constant Content. They keep rejecting articles if they are not perfect enough, but once you learn their guidelines you’ll easily sell your work and make good money there. If you are a good writer… This is the easiest way to begin. Don’t go to Elance or Odesk because the prices their customers pay for articles there are ridiculous, and you have no safety. CC is a very well organized website and you receive your money in 15 days (through Paypal) when you make sales.

    I can help you with CC’s guidelines in case you need more help. In the beginning you get frustrated with their constant rejections. Send me a message if you want to work there.


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    • Profile picture of the author Sebastion
      I don't expect to be a good copywriter overnight. It took me 5 years of hobbying around to be able to write THIS. Most skills take about 4 years of intense practice to attain an advanced skill level. I figure two years of intense training would get me there with copy.

      Article writing has always scared me because the pay is so bad.

      I actually have a gig that pays me $25 for 600 word blogs on seduction. It's alright.

      I'll look into the article writing sites you mentioned. Thanks.
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      • Profile picture of the author arfasaira
        I second Sally on her points, at this stage, you need money and you need it fast. If you are already good at writing, you don't just have to stick to articles.

        I suggest for some fast cash, get yourself on Warriors for Hire and offer your services writing ebooks and short reports - I've seen warriors writing reports on here for $97 for 5000 - that's pretty good.

        Also, have you looked into commercial freelance writing? You can EASILY earn between $50-$125 and hour for writing gigs for businesses. Think reports, newsletters, brochures, leaflets, press releases etc and think of how many businesses out there need them.

        A while back, I did a report for a local college - took about 6 hours and I charged them $125 an hour. That's a heck of a lot of money, and they even payed my babysitting and gasoline expenses.

        And I make around $75 an hour writing brochures for local businesses too. All good money. The trick is to market yourself like crazy and get the word out.

        As for the copywriting thing, you can always DIY or take a course on the side. Put it this way, I was freelancing, doing an intensive copywriting course (I did Paul Hancox' course - absolutely FANTASTIC and crammed full of information you can apply immediately) which I literally whizzed through, and looked after a highly demanding baby and 7 year old, as well as doing chores and looking after my parents-in-law who live with us and are sick.

        Oh, and I also have a sick sister in law who has kidney failure and I help her out too. Life is at best, a big juggling act and some days are great, others not so. But, my husband is currently out of a job, so with a large and extended family to support, we need fast cash too - and this is how I do it.

        Best advice - stop procrastinating and write down your goals. Then find ways to commit to them and stick to them. No need to be overwhelmed. Take everything one step at a time, but ensure you market yourself always so that you are noticed and always bringing home the bacon.

        best of luck!
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        • Profile picture of the author Sebastion
          Right on. I'm actually re-writing my resume and portfolio today.

          Do you need graphic design skills for brochures?
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        • Profile picture of the author CopyAcolyte
          Originally Posted by arfasaira View Post

          I second Sally on her points, at this stage, you need money and you need it fast. If you are already good at writing, you don't just have to stick to articles.

          I suggest for some fast cash, get yourself on Warriors for Hire and offer your services writing ebooks and short reports - I've seen warriors writing reports on here for $97 for 5000 - that's pretty good.

          Also, have you looked into commercial freelance writing? You can EASILY earn between $50-$125 and hour for writing gigs for businesses. Think reports, newsletters, brochures, leaflets, press releases etc and think of how many businesses out there need them.

          A while back, I did a report for a local college - took about 6 hours and I charged them $125 an hour. That's a heck of a lot of money, and they even payed my babysitting and gasoline expenses.

          And I make around $75 an hour writing brochures for local businesses too. All good money. The trick is to market yourself like crazy and get the word out.

          As for the copywriting thing, you can always DIY or take a course on the side. Put it this way, I was freelancing, doing an intensive copywriting course (I did Paul Hancox' course - absolutely FANTASTIC and crammed full of information you can apply immediately) which I literally whizzed through, and looked after a highly demanding baby and 7 year old, as well as doing chores and looking after my parents-in-law who live with us and are sick.

          Oh, and I also have a sick sister in law who has kidney failure and I help her out too. Life is at best, a big juggling act and some days are great, others not so. But, my husband is currently out of a job, so with a large and extended family to support, we need fast cash too - and this is how I do it.

          Best advice - stop procrastinating and write down your goals. Then find ways to commit to them and stick to them. No need to be overwhelmed. Take everything one step at a time, but ensure you market yourself always so that you are noticed and always bringing home the bacon.

          best of luck!
          Good stuff, but don't brochures, newsletters, leaflets, and press releases all count as copywriting? They are according to my copywriting books, although they are soft sell, whereas direct response is hard sell.

          And in addition to constantcintent, clickbank, and approaching small-med size businesses in person, do you folks not suggest starting off doing nearly pro-bono work (just to get it published for proven results) for clients on elance? I checked out elance and there looks likes a lot of opportunities there for hard-selling and soft-selling! Is it not a good environment to start in?
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          • Profile picture of the author Collette
            Originally Posted by CopyAcolyte View Post

            Good stuff, but don't brochures, newsletters, leaflets, and press releases all count as copywriting? They are according to my copywriting books, although they are soft sell, whereas direct response is hard sell.

            And in addition to constantcintent, clickbank, and approaching small-med size businesses in person, do you folks not suggest starting off doing nearly pro-bono work (just to get it published for proven results) for clients on elance? I checked out elance and there looks likes a lot of opportunities there for hard-selling and soft-selling! Is it not a good environment to start in?
            Yeah, they do. However, the focus on the Warrior Forum is mostly Internet Marketing, with an emphasis on GRQ ('Get-Rich-Quick') products.

            So, it can be a little misleading for copywriting newbies, who may come away from here thinking that 'copywriting' is only 'copywriting' if it involves 36-pt red Tahoma headlines, "secrets", and the liberal use of yellow highlighter.

            True 'copywriting' (as opposed to 'content writing') requires quite a bit of marketing knowledge. And, yes, every piece of collateral a business has floating around should be 'selling' the business in some way.

            This is where having at least a working knowledge of direct response technique can make an 'ordinary' copywriter into an 'extraordinary' copywriter. At least where it matters - in the eyes of their clients.

            Furthermore, as the interest in marketing to offline clients grows on the WF, I suspect that the definition of 'copywriting' here will - of necessity - become more encompassing.

            Because there's more than one way to sell.

            As for elance, et al: I only recommend those meat markets only as a way to build a portfolio, not as a place to find clients. And I highly recommend that you combine elance, et al with additional marketing methods, including face-to-face pitching. Not only will you gain some practical, in-the-trenches marketing experience that you can learn from and use for your clients' benefit, you'll diversify your sources for work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Scott
    This is business, my man.

    Don't chase the cash... chase your dream.

    One thing I realized last year is I had focused so much on actually being successful I didn't stop to think about the journey.

    And the journey is damn important.

    So many IMers fail because they look at this as a get-rich-quick thing... they think of it as selling ebooks... or pushing affiliate products... or whatever.

    Instead of looking at it like a REAL business.

    Imagine it cost you $50k to set up a web biz... how much thought would you give it then?

    Would you be looking at what will get you rich fastest... or what you'll enjoy doing for the five or ten years it takes you to become as successful as you wish?

    Personally, I don't separate my business from the rest of my life. I love my business. I don't often take holidays.

    A lot of the guys I know are the same. We live and breathe this stuff, and we do it because we love it.

    And we take that love and figure out how we can make more and more money from it in the long term (HINT: build value for your customers).

    There's a million ways you can make cash... but are there a million ways you can be happy?

    Only you can answer that.

    -Daniel
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    Always looking for badass direct-response copywriters. PM me if we don't know each other and you're looking for work.

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    • Profile picture of the author 247Copywriter
      Originally Posted by Daniel Scott View Post

      A lot of the guys I know are the same. We live and breathe this stuff, and we do it because we love it.

      And we take that love and figure out how we can make more and more money from it in the long term (HINT: build value for your customers).

      -Daniel
      Exactly.

      As I said to you a few days ago Sebastion, it's not all about you, it's about the value you bring to the table for your clients.

      In any business.
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      --->----->----->----->-----> MarkAndrews IMCopywriting <-----<-----<-----<-----<---
      http://www.IMCopywriting.com
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  • Profile picture of the author Ross James
    Sebastian, you just have to take the bull by the horns and GO for it. But pick one method and work with it until you're successful. Today I put up a blog, added content and then an optin page for short sale prospecting, except with PPC advertising you're not really prospecting you're just basically positioning yourself right in front of your target audience.

    Why did I do this? Simple, as marketers we are always looking for new reachable, hungry audiences. I saw a couple short sales ads on TV and said to myself, there must be a demand for this stuff if people are spending boatloads of money on these infomercials/ ads. I targeted companies already advertising for short sale leads and said "HEY, I'm and internet marketer and I have a bunch of qualified leads I cherry picked off the internet are you interested"? The phone conversation went on for almost an hour, this guy ended up cherry picking my brain for information! but at the end made a deal with him and instead of brokering leads out, he said he'd buy the website off of me once I showed him how it worked.

    You just have to have balls and think of hungry markets that are easily reachable that aren't over saturated, that is the key, think like a real marketer. There really is NO limit on how to make money online.

    Best,

    Ross
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  • Profile picture of the author kdockins
    I totally understand your confusion, as there are many possible avenues you can pursue. Now, some of the other replies to your post are right on the money regarding this matter.

    You are fortunate in that you possess MULTIPLE skills with which you can design your choice of income streams. Yet, with so many options also comes the perplexity of figuring out where to start.

    One particular reply to your post recommends that you begin focusing more upon your ability to generate top-notch handwritten content. I agree with this recommendation because there are yet even MORE opportunities opening up on line for people who can TRULY create, present, and deliver 100% handwritten content that contains the conventional and yet lasting "holy grail" elements of:

    -- Attention grabbing ability;

    -- Interest generating drive;

    -- Desire emitting copy;

    -- Action oriented closing.

    And, mind you, the measure of the above is surprisingly NOT based on the essence of the QUANTITY of your message copy. Rather, it can even be an extremely SHORT piece of material that instantly captures the above elements.

    One or two people out of 1,000 MAY have this instilled within their psyche, and it flows out onto paper or screen text much like a GIFT. However, that remaining majority of folks who attempt to produce top-notch written content simply must WORK HARD at it.

    Practice CAN make perfect, even without being "gifted" at it, and I'm not exactly sure what level your writing talents are on, at this time.

    On a personal note, I've written some great SHORT stuff, and some great LONG ones, as well. Yet, it does seem that the common denominator between the two is a combination of:

    -- Having some type of accredited knowledge, backup, or support for the info you present;

    -- Talking with your audience just like they are sitting in a room with you;

    -- Telling some part of a story that "seems" or "sounds" new, simply because of the "WAY" you say it.

    Thus, just try to incorporate these types of elements into your writing from this point forward, and possibly many people will begin recognizing your great writing talents as soon as they ready what you have to say.

    And, as others have stated earlier, let your focus point revolve around writing copy that presents and explains products, which can be YOURS, or even the products of other online entrepreneurs in an affiliate capacity.

    Strong writing is needed and valued by virtually ALL online performers.
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    Kenneth Dockins - SEO Specialist, Platinum Level Expert Author online. Webmaster of both static HTML and WordPress websites. Temple University education field graduate and business consultant with over 15 years online marketing experience. Fiverr level-2 affiliate services provider. Expanding services under the SBI umbrella via the "Easy Internet Advertising" website at http://ez-internet-advertising.com

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