16 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}
16 {{ upvoteCount | shortNum }}

What is the cost of NOT hiring a copywriter?

by briancassingena
13 replies
My guess is most of you reading this are copywriters, but I'm posting this here in case someone with too much time on their hands objects to it being in the main forum, because it's about copywriting.

There has been some discussion lately about the costs of hiring a copywriter, and most of you will know it should not be a cost at all, it's an investment, in the truest sense of the word.

If you're thinking you're a cost which needs to be justified to your client, it's time to get out of that mindset and start focusing on the client's return on investment.

If you're in what John Carlton calls "The Shameless Whore" stage of your copywriting career, you may not be able to pick and choose jobs, but many of us here won't take on a job, or a client, if we don't think we can create enough sales to make them back our fee and then some.

I mean, if I charge $5k for a sales letter, and the product is a $29 ebook, it's got to either be the best ebook in the world, or the guy has to have a hot list of 100,000 buyers, or what's going to happen, is I'll write a great letter, and he won't be able to get the numbers to make back my fee.

Sure, I get some cash, but royalties will be few and far between, if any. And, I've been a COST to this guy, doesn't matter if it's not my fault he doesn't have a huge list, that's his perception. So getting more work from him gets harder. (And this time he might be selling a brilliant $1,000 product...and I miss out)

Truth is I'd work on his copywriting strategy, and turn that $29 ebook into a much higher priced product, plus get some more people to send it to, but the fact is, most people will write their own copy in this situation, rather than hire a copywriter. Which is great, nobody is in as good a position to sell your product than YOU are, but there are certain drawbacks to this:

1. Writing a good sales letter takes time. Writing a great sales letter takes even longer. Clients want to run their businesses, and get a sales letter from their copywriter after a couple of weeks.

2. Writing a great sales letter takes years of experience, and the ability to SELL.

3. A copywriter is leverage. For a bit of cash, you can have a marketing system which you can use for as long as you sell that product, you can turn it up and down, on and off, like a tap (Or a faucet, if you're in the US). What did Halbert say? - The answer to every business problem is a good sales letter.

Pay once, cry once, get your custom marketing system and you'll have that flexibility and power at your disposal, while the competition is scribbling away at their half-assed sales letters and trying to bear the load all by themselves.

What do YOU think?
#copywriter #cost #hiring
  • Profile picture of the author peewhy
    It never ceases to amaze me the vast amount marketing emails churned out that are not only grammatically incorrect but actually drive the reader to hitting the 'junk' button within seconds.
    Signature
    Marketing & Promoting Websites Since 1994 www.wsoWhich.com for open and honest WSO reviews
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4121835].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DanielleLynnCopy
    Hi there Brian,

    I agree with many of the points you made.

    Copywriting IS an investment. Although copywriting encompasses all levels and types of business, for the sake of this discussion, I'm going to focus on internet marketing.

    When it comes to internet markets, there seems to be 2 types:

    1) The knowledgable marketer who researches the market, carefully plans out his strategy, creates a budget, wisely invests, and launches.

    2) The newbie who tries to cut corners in hopes of getting a bigger piece of the pie. They walk in with the mentality of "how little can I spend." They view SEO, design, and copywriting as a drain on their wallet - not an investment. As a result they go through endless cheap service providers who hand them shoddy work and then they launch... and scratch their heads when their launch flops.

    Note: Not all starting out marketers do this - but there is this general mentality that you can outsource everything for pennies, and copywriting sometimes gets lumped in there.

    The point you made that caught my attention:

    I mean, if I charge $5k for a sales letter, and the product is a $29 ebook, it's got to either be the best ebook in the world, or the guy has to have a hot list of 100,000 buyers, or what's going to happen, is I'll write a great letter, and he won't be able to get the numbers to make back my fee.

    Sure, I get some cash, but royalties will be few and far between, if any. And, I've been a COST to this guy, doesn't matter if it's not my fault he doesn't have a huge list, that's his perception. So getting more work from him gets harder. (And this time he might be selling a brilliant $1,000 product...and I miss out)
    That's why its important to ask a prospect how they plan to promote their product.

    If they don't have a good plan, I often advise them to NOT hire a copywriter yet- at least until they have a good strategy in place.

    You can also offer them marketing coaching/brainstorming sessions in that case to help them find the best strategy for their particular product/situation/budget. That way you build a relationship while helping them find the most profitable route.

    And it's much more likely they'll come back and hire you to write copy for that $1,000 product.
    Signature
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4123374].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    I would want to move this discussion to the main forum,
    but I think you are right that because it says "copywriting"
    like a keyword algorithmic machine it would be dumped
    right back to the copywriting forum.

    You're really preaching to the choir here. The people
    who need to be convinced of this are not copywriters, but
    marketers who are seeking their services.

    Also keep in mind that some $29 ebooks have made
    millions on ClickBank, so don't write them off too
    quickly.

    -Ray Edwards
    Signature
    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Autoresponder Writing Email SECRETS
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4123514].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author briancassingena
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      I would want to move this discussion to the main forum,
      but I think you are right that because it says "copywriting"
      like a keyword algorithmic machine it would be dumped
      right back to the copywriting forum.

      You're really preaching to the choir here. The people
      who need to be convinced of this are not copywriters, but
      marketers who are seeking their services.

      Also keep in mind that some $29 ebooks have made
      millions on ClickBank, so don't write them off too
      quickly.

      -Ray Edwards
      Yep, I know most people reading this will be well aware of this issue, I suppose I wanted it to be more of a reminder not to get caught up in clients' mindsets and to make sure we as copywriters position ourselves to be the experts who help the client make sales.

      P.S. I'd normally guide a client towards a higher priced product, only because most ebooks won't ever make really serious money, even with good marketing. Better to skew the odds in the clients' favour by premium pricing. Or, you could get clients through CB at cost or even at a loss, if you have a good backend...
      Signature
      Copywriting For Non-Copywriters: FREE 30-Day Journey
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4127041].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Shadowflux
        I think what briancassingena has said holds true for more than just copywriting.

        It depends on the type of internet business you're running but I think that people shouldn't underestimate the benefits of hiring someone to do certain things. If you're planning on having a sales page of some sort then you should hire a copywriter. If you're going to run a blog to try and monetize traffic then you should consider a content writer. Almost anything on the web can benefit from a graphic designer while most websites can benefit from a web designer.

        Basically, if it's important to your business then it's important enough to invest some money into getting someone with real talent to do it for you (assuming you can't do a professional job yourself).

        Think of it this way, if you were to open a brick and mortar business you would hire people to build the store, you'd hire painters, plumbers, carpenters and electricians to finish it. You would probably hire someone to do the interior design, someone for the website and someone else for your print and promotional material. Finally, you would probably hire employees to run the store and deal with customers.

        All of these things are pretty essential to starting and running a business and most people wouldn't even consider doing it all themselves.

        Your business would end up looking like a lemonade stand if you did.
        Signature
        Native Advertising Specialist
        Dangerously Effective
        Always Discreet
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4128090].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Alex Cohen
          Calling the amount one pays to hire a copywriter an "investment" is reframing. It's a term we use to make our fee seem more acceptable to the client.

          In truth, it's an expense.

          A worthwhile expense? Of course.

          Hiring a SEO expert to drive traffic is an expense. Hiring a graphic designer to create a logo is an expense. Hiring a copywriter to persuade prospects to buy is an expense.

          Alex
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4128270].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author briancassingena
            Originally Posted by Alex Cohen View Post

            Calling the amount one pays to hire a copywriter an "investment" is reframing. It's a term we use to make our fee seem more acceptable to the client.

            In truth, it's an expense.

            A worthwhile expense? Of course.

            Hiring a SEO expert to drive traffic is an expense. Hiring a graphic designer to create a logo is an expense. Hiring a copywriter to persuade prospects to buy is an expense.

            Alex
            Disagree. Might be true if you look it up in the dictionary, but the reason I don't agree is because I want to keep the investment mindset, rather than being an expense for a small business owners who needs ROI. You can't get a return on an expense
            Signature
            Copywriting For Non-Copywriters: FREE 30-Day Journey
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4128299].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Bratcher
    Hi, guys. First post and big noob here. Hopefully this won't completely discredit the following.

    To go along with OP's loaded question in a different light. Would it not serve someone like myself to learn copywriting for my own benefit instead of hiring a professional every time I want to market a new product?

    I believe in outsourcing wholeheartedly, especially with more technical aspects of web design and SEO, but I have found that doing things yourself not only builds your talent but helps you understand the finer workings behind the scene. In the long run of IM, it would benefit you to become a copywriter.
    Signature
    “The question isn’t who is going to let me; it’s who is going to stop me.” – Ayn Rand
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4131740].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author michaelhearne
      It would seem that way - and you;re not entirely off base here - but...

      The learning process can take years - a lot of trial and error & a lot of studying the greats, then writing what you learned into a sales piece, etc.

      By the time you get good, you cold have started five businesses hiring people who are already good...

      And you still might not ever get good - some people just aren't good writers...

      Anyways, yes - you should learn about copywriting, but unless you are naturally talented as a writer & you LOVE to write - then you only need to know enough to recognize good work from one of us copywriters when you get it...

      My best clients can write decent copy themselves, but it is a drain on them & they'll never be as good at it as I am

      Anyways - short answer is this: learn copywriting while you hire a better writer than yourself (and hire the best you can afford)...

      Peace!

      --Michael

      Originally Posted by fatherflame View Post

      Hi, guys. First post and big noob here. Hopefully this won't completely discredit the following.

      To go along with OP's loaded question in a different light. Would it not serve someone like myself to learn copywriting for my own benefit instead of hiring a professional every time I want to market a new product?

      I believe in outsourcing wholeheartedly, especially with more technical aspects of web design and SEO, but I have found that doing things yourself not only builds your talent but helps you understand the finer workings behind the scene. In the long run of IM, it would benefit you to become a copywriter.
      Signature
      How to Create an Autopilot Affiliate Sales Funnel
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4131899].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ewenmack
      Originally Posted by fatherflame View Post


      To go along with OP's loaded question in a different light. Would it not serve someone like myself to learn copywriting for my own benefit instead of hiring a professional every time I want to market a new product?

      In the long run of IM, it would benefit you to become a copywriter.
      In your case, where you want to learn and earn from salesmanship via the internet,
      then having a pro help you is best...which you acknowledge.

      Here's how you speed up your skill set, write the best sales pitch that you can.

      It's taken you days and weeks.

      It's made you think of so many angles it drives you crazy.

      You've shredded the original and it's brothers and cousins
      and countless other generations and you're on to your next bottle of Prozac.

      Welcome to your Nightmare on Elm Street.

      Ready to toss in the towel champ?

      Of course not...you are a champ and get help.

      But not any help...no siree.

      You find a salesman for the internet media.

      One who shows you where you've gone wrong.

      Then he shows you why.

      The why is the most important part.

      You could be on the right track, but need to intensify those selling points.

      Now you've mastered the one sales trigger he's pinpointed.

      You'll see how you can use it in varying forms to suit the situation.

      You've got the light bulb moment.

      After sweating blood to get this far, you now feel justifiably proud.

      You now have your own little plan for sales.

      Best,
      Ewen
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4132938].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author John_S
    I mean, if I charge $5k for a sales letter, and the product is a $29 ebook, it's got to either be the best ebook in the world, or the guy has to have a hot list of 100,000 buyers, or what's going to happen, is I'll write a great letter, and he won't be able to get the numbers to make back my fee.
    Nobody should be selling a $29 ebook; they should be selling a $1000-$5000K backend with an ebook.

    Telling you how to turn a $29 sale into $5000 in total lifetime value is why you hire a $5K copywriter for a twenty-nine dollar ebook.

    All the rest get their $29 bucks and can't figure out how anyone makes any real money selling ebooks. If you're just selling a $29 ebook you have no business wasting the time of a copywriter.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4140305].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author max5ty
      Originally Posted by John_S View Post

      Nobody should be selling a $29 ebook; they should be selling a $1000-$5000K backend with an ebook.

      Telling you how to turn a $29 sale into $5000 in total lifetime value is why you hire a $5K copywriter for a twenty-nine dollar ebook.

      All the rest get their $29 bucks and can't figure out how anyone makes any real money selling ebooks. If you're just selling a $29 ebook you have no business wasting the time of a copywriter.
      ...and you've just exposed one of the biggest mistakes in marketing - was going to say "one of the biggest secrets", but everyone's heard of it - just few accept it as brilliant. Those who have are laughing all the way to the bank....

      ...it's the failure to upsell.

      The first sell is always the hardest, the others after that are like shooting fish in a barrel. Why would you practice "catch and release" with your customers?

      Most of the stuff that gets sold through infomercials on T.V., make their real money through upsells - same with the "successful" product campaigns on the internet and in print.

      So many marketers leave the MAJORITY of the profits they could earn, still in their customers pockets. Such a sad story - but lost on so many.

      Those who read your comment, and act, will be the one's who see an immediate increase in their profit.

      You wrote an excellent comment.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4141392].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author John_S
        The first sell is always the hardest, the others after that are like shooting fish in a barrel.
        And yet most manage to screw up that next sale too.

        Problem being they never design one product to lead to the next sale. Each is self-contained. Back ends are often "Oh ...****, now what do I do?" And that's just the perception the buyer gets.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[4141645].message }}

Trending Topics