this can't be selling...

Hi schttrj,

Appreciate the feedback. Thank you for being curious enough to click through to it.

But there is much more going on in there than meets the eye and the ear.

There are multiple strategy and copywriting lessons in there, if one is astute enough to really study it.

I'm not going into details. Not my style. But just let's say THAT website convinces Clients and Partners who ARE the *PERFECT* Clients and Partners for me.

So when you say it's unconvincing? It just means one thing: You're not in my target market.

And that's quite ok. No problem with that--at all.

And as for my voice? It's MY voice. And I'm keeping it. Think I'm gonna hire some voice over guy? You gotta be kidding me.

It's funny you say that though because Clients tell me they want me to do the voice overs once I have the copy written. So I most be doing something right.

- Rick Duris


PS: Thanks to all who stick up for me. You know who you are. It's appreciated beyond measure. You know that.

PPS: And if it so unconvincing, why has it been ripped off three times in the last 18 months?

Something to think about.

A little tip for you my friend...

You might want to do your research first before openly criticising other copywriters here.

Throwing down the gauntlet to the Copy Nazi - Malcolm Lambe for example isn't a good idea. Mal is one hell of an experienced copywriter and his headline writing skills will knock most other copywriters for six.

Mal has proven his skills over and over again working with many top marketers.

Can you lay claim to the same pedigree? (Rhetorical question)

Same goes for Rick Duris, criticising his sales copy, calling it 'unconvincing' etc. Essentially all you're doing is trying inadvertently or otherwise to damage his reputation.

As Rick pointed out, something which is fairly obvious to most professional copywriters... his sales copy is working on several different layers all at the same time to connect with his total audience and target market.

That takes some doing believe you me. The sales letter isn't everything it seems to be. There's a fair bit of NLP being used in there, that's neuro linguistic programming to you and I. Embedded commands etc.

It's looks soft and fuzzy to the untrained eye but for his target market it's hitting on their emotional subconscious buttons very strongly.

The same goes with his voice. Yes he's got a bit of an 'odd voice' but then a lot of us have 'odd' voices and accents, myself included. It's how God made us and who are we to argue with Him?

Let me tell you something - allow me to share something with you...

You might be surprised to know just how much money this section of the Warrior Forum, these very copywriters, the real professionals in here generate for their clients.

We're talking millions of dollars.

Do your own diligence and research. I know every top copywriter in this section and can discern between the real pro's and the many pretenders who wash up in this section of the forum from time to time. They come and go like flies and it's always the same pattern...

They hang around for a week or two, a month or so maybe, take a jab here, a jab there, criticise, run down and generally speaking become a major pain in the butt and then disappear again because they really don't understand what they're trying to chew off.

And believe me when I say this, most of the real copy pro's here they could eat 99.9% of these characters for breakfast. The only reason they often won't bite is precisely because they can't be bothered to expend a waste of energy and time on these individuals. They've seen this pattern of behaviour a hundred times over.

If you want to get a real grip on the copywriting skillset and demonstrate this in your own copywriting business you'll pay careful heed to a few of these guys you're currently knocking.

As Rick succinctly pointed out... you are not his target market. Which is why his sales copy in particular is not resonating within your subconscious mind. Hence the importance of putting yourself (through empathy) into the shoes of somebody else as a fellow copywriter.

Journey well...


Pete Walker

Actually Jason... it was my math that was off.

I'm not passing an ethical judgement on it either.

I'm in the financial niche and so I have talked to several of the guys who are putting out the "push button profits" type products in the IM space because a large number of them are also major players in the Forex niche.

I'm not in the Forex niche because I don't believe it's a market where the average person has any hope of making a profit long term, but what I do crosses very nicely with it, so many of them have been my affiliates, and I've gotten to know several of them at events etc.

When I have talked to them most have made it pretty clear that they do not see the people on their list as customers. The relationship they care about and put effort into is the relationships with other list owners.

They understand that the vast majority of the people who buy the products they sell are not serious. How do they know these people are not serious? Because no serious person believes in something for nothing. A serious person understands that if your going to make a lot of money, you most generally have to follow the path of others who have made a lot of money - and that usually includes a lot of hard work.

They understand that for the most part the people buying their products are lazy dreamers who will not accomplish anything, and will not be in the market for a long time. Obviously they try to squeeze every last bit of profit out of them that they can, but to them the "money is in the list" only in so much as it allows them to continue to be top JV/Affiliates for other people in the group, so they will continue to promote for them.

To be honest I'm not sure how well that really works.

I know people who do it, and they do "ok". Guys will make maybe 10 or 20 sales on a launch that way. Like I said, that's ok money, but I don't know of anyone who's gotten rich doing it (though I'm sure plenty have become rich selling it)

The reason I'd be very suspect of it as a method to really grow your business is that, while it's a often repeated method, it's not one you really see any of the big name guys engaging in themselves.

Often you have to play play the role of Sherlock Holmes - but the real key is in doing what they do, not what they often say.

Thanks Daniel - Coming from a guy such as yourself that actually means a lot.

Based upon your posts on the forum and the couple of letters I know of that you have written, I sorta stalk you around a bit like a crazy ex girlfriend...but in a nice and friendly sort of way I promise!